EPTAugust 2011 KeSPA Ranking - Page 6
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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xarthaz
1704 Posts
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xarthaz
1704 Posts
On August 02 2011 00:36 TwoToneTerran wrote: Doesn't matter, Kespa Ranking atleast acknowledges all serious, non-exhibition games. Elo biasedly excludes other games (because Elo has a problem with inflation, so it excludes prelims which add a very high amount of games and therefore speeds the inflation. Also maybe the TL staff cares less about prelims) and puts exact value on PL Round 6 garbage time games over game 5 of a finals. It's silly. Elo is excellent in depicting consistency. It is not a clear, accurate ranking for who is clearly achieving the most. On August 02 2011 00:02 Shikyo wrote: So you're saying that a random proleague game should be valued as much as a starleague finals, and that prelims aren't supposed to be counted? I'm pretty sure Kespa rating is a much better ranking system, it has much less fluctuation due to variance and values individual leagues more, as one should. On August 01 2011 23:36 Winechu wrote: Why should games be valued equally? Obviously some games are going to have more significance over other games and hence should accordingly have a higher weightage. The two rating systems differ in what they measure too, elo more of skill and Kespa more of a player's value in terms of his success and value to his team. For the latter, ascribing weightage makes sense. The point TTT was trying to make is that if all games are treated equally, then prelim games are equal to that of a regular PL match or SL match and hence should be included in the calculation of elo. If you assume them to be equal, excluding those matches would be arbitrary. Hence Elo WOULD be biased, in spite of not arbitrarily ascribing weightage to games unlike ELO. You can't subtype it and call it a completely different case. Bias is bias. The concept of equality is misunderstood here. Applying it to compare the test sample to that which is not sampled is nonsensical - there exist no claims about its relevance to the subject. Such an argument cannot exist in the first place due to assuming concept of choice being outside the realm of action - an absurd idea, due to the praxeological limitations of comprehension of mind. There do however exist claims regarding its relevance to the games that are in question. This implies the validity of the bias argument with regards to the Kespa rating, but Invalidates the argument as it is applied to Elo. | ||
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EternalSC
Sweden313 Posts
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
Stork! Ha, enjoy it while you can. Please start performing again, but I have a fear this will be the last time you move up for a while and last time you are this high ever. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 02 2011 02:11 xarthaz wrote: The concept of equality is misunderstood here. Applying it to compare the test sample to that which is not sampled is nonsensical - there exist no claims about its relevance to the subject. Such an argument cannot exist in the first place due to assuming concept of choice being outside the realm of action - an absurd idea, due to the praxeological limitations of comprehension of mind. There do however exist claims regarding its relevance to the games that are in question. This implies the validity of the bias argument with regards to the Kespa rating, but Invalidates the argument as it is applied to Elo. Actually, no, I specifically claimed the samples as relevant to the subject. Elo ranks some games and not others on an arbitrary basis. Just because it does so with absolute equality of all games does not mean it is not arbitrarily biased against certain, equally competitive, games. It'd be silly to say the Kespa Ranking wasn't biased when it was made almost explicitly to mathematically reward more prestigious accomplishments. The system itself has a built in level of bias, Elo is biased by exclusion. This is all kind of silly, though. I just didn't like your assertion that Kespa rank had no reasonable purpose with Elo around when they clearly serve two distinct, different, and nice evaluations. | ||
Spica
United States5582 Posts
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a9arnn
United States1537 Posts
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Doughboy
United States721 Posts
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Chimpalimp
United States1135 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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prosatan
Romania9430 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:48 koreasilver wrote: The end of a long era. It's really hard to believe that Jaedong has been usurped from his top Zerg throne in the Kespa rankings. did calm cheat him out a while ago? | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
No. The player that has most consistently been close to Jaedong was always Zero, and Zero passing Jaedong isn't that shocking, as he's been one of the top Zergs for a long while now. But Hydra suddenly surging the way he did is really surprising to me. Even Effort in his prime wasn't able to do that, but when Effort was playing well so was Jaedong, so I guess the timing just worked out well for Hydra. On the other hand... calm, lol. | ||
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NicksonReyes
Philippines4431 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/kespa_ranking.php?section=korean&year=2011&month=8&action=Update#tblt-3395-1-4-DESC KT zergs gonna invade the top30 before 2011 ends. | ||
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matjlav
Germany2435 Posts
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moopie
12605 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already. Get into a Starleague? His last run was in 2008 if i remember It's 2011. | ||
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jlim
Spain943 Posts
On August 02 2011 08:35 Release wrote: Get into a Starleague? His last run was in 2008 if i remember It's 2011. mmmm, that hurts...  | ||
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