My Dong, you were the ruthless but rightful owner of the zerg throne for longer than anyone before you or anyone who will come after you. In this dark hour, I wish for my hero to gather all the strength, creativity and brilliance that is left in him and give it one last (everlasting) resurgence. My ruler you'll be for all the time.
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
It is absolutely impossible for Kespa Ranking to be biased, as it acts on a completely strict formula.
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
Perform in individual leagues.
Specifically, not get kicked out of OSL preliminaries.
On August 01 2011 17:21 sixfour wrote: Confused how Stats is in the top 10 given he's not ever done much in an individual league
Poor free, think that's the end of quite a long run in the top 30
Zero!
4th best proleague player by kespa ranking standards, playoff wins. He's ahead of pretty much anyone who hasn't done well in individual leagues besides Bisu, who is the #1 proleague player.
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
don't worry, he will win current msl and next time advance at OSL!
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
This is not power ranks dude, it can't be biased. Speaking of power ranks, we don't have it for this month yet.
Other than that, 2 Woongjin Stars Terrans are in top 30? Lol. They are losing their fame.
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
This is not power ranks dude, it can't be biased. Speaking of power ranks, we don't have it for this month yet.
Other than that, 2 Woongjin Stars Terrans are in top 30? Lol. They are losing their fame.
Both players picked up from other teams. If Zero went to SKT and played well it wouldn't be a dispelling of the SKT Zerg curse.
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
Who's more biased - the stat-based KeSPA ranking or the Bisu fan?
I'm pleasantly surprised Stork is still ranked so highly. He seems to have lost all motivation and form these days.
A top 5 ranking with constant failure in individual leagues already originates from the incredible PL performance Bisu delivered. KeSPA ranking isn't a really 'current' ranking, since it doesn't forget individual league success/failure for quite some time, so no wonder that Bisu isn't able to overtake JD. Though one has to admit that with Playoffs being weighted that much, Bisu pretty much gets the bitter end of the ranking this month, since he had no games to play in the playoffs at all yet. Still his own fault for not doing well in individuals leagues since ages.
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
lol...the Kespa rank is calculated based on a formula.
On August 01 2011 19:06 raviy wrote: What? How did Stork move up the rankings?
He actually didn't. He's down 100 points from last month. He and Fantasy swapped places because Fantasy sucked worse and lost more points due to his recent OSL, essentially down 200 points from last month.
On August 01 2011 19:06 raviy wrote: What? How did Stork move up the rankings?
Its not so much having to do with Stork playing well as it is with Fantasy continuing to drop as his OSL run and other achievements this past year decay. Stork is also dropping in points, but slower.
Well, now at least when Jaedong reclaims the number one spot he will be once again making history (as the first Zerg to ever reclaim his throne). Even if he doesn't recover his dominating form I don't see him not surpassing ZerO/Hydra at some point.
Also, what's with all the Stats fans? I can't stand the guy. He has zero charisma. I guess there's no accounting for taste.
On August 01 2011 19:06 raviy wrote: What? How did Stork move up the rankings?
He actually didn't. He's down 100 points from last month. He and Fantasy swapped places because Fantasy sucked worse and lost more points due to his recent OSL, essentially down 200 points from last month.
Heh, the interregnum until Effort returns. Also, who would've thought a year ago that players like Bogus, Horang2 and Killer would be the ones climbing up the ranking? Not to mention Hydra and Soulkey... Talent sometimes pops up when you least expect it.
On August 01 2011 19:06 raviy wrote: What? How did Stork move up the rankings?
He actually didn't. He's down 100 points from last month. He and Fantasy swapped places because Fantasy sucked worse and lost more points due to his recent OSL, essentially down 200 points from last month.
i thought he 3-0'd his group ?
Im sure he meant "More points decayed from his recent OSL championship"
Sigh, Bisu hurry and win the MSL (and the many SLs to come) and rise back to number one please. I will fly to Korea to give u a hug :3
On August 01 2011 19:45 Goragoth wrote: Well, now at least when Jaedong reclaims the number one spot he will be once again making history (as the first Zerg to ever reclaim his throne). Even if he doesn't recover his dominating form I don't see him not surpassing ZerO/Hydra at some point.
Also, what's with all the Stats fans? I can't stand the guy. He has zero charisma. I guess there's no accounting for taste.
So charisma is what matters in bw? Not actual skill? Stats is one of the most solid and underrated tosses currently, he's about 55-60% in all his matchups and continuously improving
On August 01 2011 20:09 kdgns wrote: in regards do effort, how does his kespa rank go, does he start over or what
effort will start at 0 points because he has no games in the past 12 months (and any games older than 12 months are no longer counted). If he is in good form, starts on CJ's a-team and shows good results he can quickly rise to top 30 after a few months.
On August 01 2011 19:06 raviy wrote: What? How did Stork move up the rankings?
He actually didn't. He's down 100 points from last month. He and Fantasy swapped places because Fantasy sucked worse and lost more points due to his recent OSL, essentially down 200 points from last month.
i thought he 3-0'd his group ?
It's been a couple of weeks since those games, how could they be decaying yet? I clearly meant his OSL win.
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
On August 01 2011 20:41 Holgerius wrote: Oh lord, Bisu bias? A ranking based on a formula that it has used since forever is biased against Bisu all of a sudden? XD
pretty sure the formula was tailored to screw up Bisu's fans
On August 01 2011 20:41 Holgerius wrote: Oh lord, Bisu bias? A ranking based on a formula that it has used since forever is biased against Bisu all of a sudden? XD
pretty sure the formula was tailored to screw up Bisu's fans
Yeah, it's not hard to tailor a formula to be anti-Bisu - all it takes is factoring in individual leagues.
How many months has it been since the Overmind was anyone but the Dong! A sad day for all Zergs, Zero and Hydra are good, but they are not truly the successors.
On August 01 2011 21:32 Armathai wrote: NOOO JAEDONG T.T
How many months has it been since the Overmind was anyone but the Dong! A sad day for all Zergs, Zero and Hydra are good, but they are not truly the successors.
On August 01 2011 17:41 moopie wrote: 43 months in a row, ever since he took #1 zerg away from Savior (in January 2008).
Roo with the biggest upward surge, by 22. Fuck yeah kt rooster! Hoeja impressive too with a 13 place jump. KT doing well. Stats being in top 10 nearly on the back on his performance in teamleagues alone shows how much of an asset he is in PL, don't think any team has a better 1-2 punch than KT. Coupled with a rejuvenated zerg line following the acquisition of coach SES, don't think anyone should be surprised they made it this far.
Lol bisang rising 13 places from his solitary win over hero.
yes, the formula is biased, lets be honest. Because there exists bias regarding the valuation of games: not all games are valued equally. Hence the Kespa rating being biased, unlike ELO, where Bisu's rank is more reasonable.
By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
On August 01 2011 22:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
You misunderstand. Elo IS unbiased, with regard to the games that are a subject of it. The games that are not a subject of it, it does not even attempt to make a statement about, hence it not being bias.
This is completely different in the case of the Kespa rating, as it has bias even within the subject whom it describes: the differentiation of ratings of the games that it is calculated from.
Roo with the biggest upward surge, by 22. Fuck yeah kt rooster! Hoeja impressive too with a 13 place jump. KT doing well. Stats being in top 10 nearly on the back on his performance in teamleagues alone shows how much of an asset he is in PL, don't think any team has a better 1-2 punch than KT. Coupled with a rejuvenated zerg line following the acquisition of coach SES, don't think anyone should be surprised they made it this far.
Lol bisang rising 13 places from his solitary win over hero.
The ranking on the original Korean site matches the ones released by Fomos and Dailyesports:
Roo with the biggest upward surge, by 22. Fuck yeah kt rooster! Hoeja impressive too with a 13 place jump. KT doing well. Stats being in top 10 nearly on the back on his performance in teamleagues alone shows how much of an asset he is in PL, don't think any team has a better 1-2 punch than KT. Coupled with a rejuvenated zerg line following the acquisition of coach SES, don't think anyone should be surprised they made it this far.
Lol bisang rising 13 places from his solitary win over hero.
The ranking on the original Korean site matches the ones released by Fomos and Dailyesports:
Its not just the English site. Their database(1) and their news notice do not match up. One of them is incorrect. For now I left both data sets in the OP.
On August 01 2011 22:44 xarthaz wrote: yes, the formula is biased, lets be honest. Because there exists bias regarding the valuation of games: not all games are valued equally. Hence the Kespa rating being biased, unlike ELO, where Bisu's rank is more reasonable.
Why should games be valued equally? Obviously some games are going to have more significance over other games and hence should accordingly have a higher weightage. The two rating systems differ in what they measure too, elo more of skill and Kespa more of a player's value in terms of his success and value to his team. For the latter, ascribing weightage makes sense.
On August 01 2011 22:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
You misunderstand. Elo IS unbiased, with regard to the games that are a subject of it. The games that are not a subject of it, it does not even attempt to make a statement about, hence it not being bias.
This is completely different in the case of the Kespa rating, as it has bias even within the subject whom it describes: the differentiation of ratings of the games that it is calculated from.
The point TTT was trying to make is that if all games are treated equally, then prelim games are equal to that of a regular PL match or SL match and hence should be included in the calculation of elo. If you assume them to be equal, excluding those matches would be arbitrary. Hence Elo WOULD be biased, in spite of not arbitrarily ascribing weightage to games unlike ELO. You can't subtype it and call it a completely different case. Bias is bias.
On August 01 2011 22:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
You misunderstand. Elo IS unbiased, with regard to the games that are a subject of it. The games that are not a subject of it, it does not even attempt to make a statement about, hence it not being bias.
This is completely different in the case of the Kespa rating, as it has bias even within the subject whom it describes: the differentiation of ratings of the games that it is calculated from.
So you're saying that a random proleague game should be valued as much as a starleague finals, and that prelims aren't supposed to be counted?
I'm pretty sure Kespa rating is a much better ranking system, it has much less fluctuation due to variance and values individual leagues more, as one should.
A factor called "the coach" in proleague does exist, and SKT has got a very good one. Bisu may be the ace, but if there's a terran that needs taking out, Best can do it. With the team depth that SKT has it is hard to prepare specifically for Bisu, but that is obviously not the case for KT or OZ. Let's face it, we don't hear of a "Bisu got sniped" very much, and there's a reason why.
In individual leagues you know who you're playing against in advance and can prepare accordingly.
For that reason individual leagues should have greater importance.
On August 01 2011 22:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
You misunderstand. Elo IS unbiased, with regard to the games that are a subject of it. The games that are not a subject of it, it does not even attempt to make a statement about, hence it not being bias.
This is completely different in the case of the Kespa rating, as it has bias even within the subject whom it describes: the differentiation of ratings of the games that it is calculated from.
Doesn't matter, Kespa Ranking atleast acknowledges all serious, non-exhibition games. Elo biasedly excludes other games (because Elo has a problem with inflation, so it excludes prelims which add a very high amount of games and therefore speeds the inflation. Also maybe the TL staff cares less about prelims) and puts exact value on PL Round 6 garbage time games over game 5 of a finals. It's silly. Elo is excellent in depicting consistency. It is not a clear, accurate ranking for who is clearly achieving the most.
JD will be back on top in no time. Hydra and Zero won't win OSL so it won't take too much to get that #1 ranking back. And who the hell says "where did Soulkey come from?"?????? Was beastly in proleague and is ripping up MSL
On August 02 2011 01:35 SoulSever wrote: JD will be back on top in no time. Hydra and Zero won't win OSL so it won't take too much to get that #1 ranking back. And who the hell says "where did Soulkey come from?"?????? Was beastly in proleague and is ripping up MSL
On August 02 2011 00:18 shadymmj wrote: A factor called "the coach" in proleague does exist, and SKT has got a very good one. Bisu may be the ace, but if there's a terran that needs taking out, Best can do it. With the team depth that SKT has it is hard to prepare specifically for Bisu, but that is obviously not the case for KT or OZ. Let's face it, we don't hear of a "Bisu got sniped" very much, and there's a reason why.
In individual leagues you know who you're playing against in advance and can prepare accordingly.
For that reason individual leagues should have greater importance.
Acctually it is not his PvT that is lacking but his PvP now. Cause Bisus' PvT winrate is even higher than his PvZ. He only lost 5 games this year and 3 of them were to Flash.
On August 01 2011 22:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
You misunderstand. Elo IS unbiased, with regard to the games that are a subject of it. The games that are not a subject of it, it does not even attempt to make a statement about, hence it not being bias.
This is completely different in the case of the Kespa rating, as it has bias even within the subject whom it describes: the differentiation of ratings of the games that it is calculated from.
Doesn't matter, Kespa Ranking atleast acknowledges all serious, non-exhibition games. Elo biasedly excludes other games (because Elo has a problem with inflation, so it excludes prelims which add a very high amount of games and therefore speeds the inflation. Also maybe the TL staff cares less about prelims) and puts exact value on PL Round 6 garbage time games over game 5 of a finals. It's silly. Elo is excellent in depicting consistency. It is not a clear, accurate ranking for who is clearly achieving the most.
On August 01 2011 22:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
You misunderstand. Elo IS unbiased, with regard to the games that are a subject of it. The games that are not a subject of it, it does not even attempt to make a statement about, hence it not being bias.
This is completely different in the case of the Kespa rating, as it has bias even within the subject whom it describes: the differentiation of ratings of the games that it is calculated from.
So you're saying that a random proleague game should be valued as much as a starleague finals, and that prelims aren't supposed to be counted?
I'm pretty sure Kespa rating is a much better ranking system, it has much less fluctuation due to variance and values individual leagues more, as one should.
On August 01 2011 22:44 xarthaz wrote: yes, the formula is biased, lets be honest. Because there exists bias regarding the valuation of games: not all games are valued equally. Hence the Kespa rating being biased, unlike ELO, where Bisu's rank is more reasonable.
Why should games be valued equally? Obviously some games are going to have more significance over other games and hence should accordingly have a higher weightage. The two rating systems differ in what they measure too, elo more of skill and Kespa more of a player's value in terms of his success and value to his team. For the latter, ascribing weightage makes sense.
On August 01 2011 22:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
You misunderstand. Elo IS unbiased, with regard to the games that are a subject of it. The games that are not a subject of it, it does not even attempt to make a statement about, hence it not being bias.
This is completely different in the case of the Kespa rating, as it has bias even within the subject whom it describes: the differentiation of ratings of the games that it is calculated from.
The point TTT was trying to make is that if all games are treated equally, then prelim games are equal to that of a regular PL match or SL match and hence should be included in the calculation of elo. If you assume them to be equal, excluding those matches would be arbitrary. Hence Elo WOULD be biased, in spite of not arbitrarily ascribing weightage to games unlike ELO. You can't subtype it and call it a completely different case. Bias is bias.
The concept of equality is misunderstood here. Applying it to compare the test sample to that which is not sampled is nonsensical - there exist no claims about its relevance to the subject. Such an argument cannot exist in the first place due to assuming concept of choice being outside the realm of action - an absurd idea, due to the praxeological limitations of comprehension of mind.
There do however exist claims regarding its relevance to the games that are in question. This implies the validity of the bias argument with regards to the Kespa rating, but Invalidates the argument as it is applied to Elo.
Hopefully the ranking with JangBi in the top 30 is correct.
Stork! Ha, enjoy it while you can. Please start performing again, but I have a fear this will be the last time you move up for a while and last time you are this high ever.
On August 01 2011 22:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
You misunderstand. Elo IS unbiased, with regard to the games that are a subject of it. The games that are not a subject of it, it does not even attempt to make a statement about, hence it not being bias.
This is completely different in the case of the Kespa rating, as it has bias even within the subject whom it describes: the differentiation of ratings of the games that it is calculated from.
Doesn't matter, Kespa Ranking atleast acknowledges all serious, non-exhibition games. Elo biasedly excludes other games (because Elo has a problem with inflation, so it excludes prelims which add a very high amount of games and therefore speeds the inflation. Also maybe the TL staff cares less about prelims) and puts exact value on PL Round 6 garbage time games over game 5 of a finals. It's silly. Elo is excellent in depicting consistency. It is not a clear, accurate ranking for who is clearly achieving the most.
On August 01 2011 22:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
You misunderstand. Elo IS unbiased, with regard to the games that are a subject of it. The games that are not a subject of it, it does not even attempt to make a statement about, hence it not being bias.
This is completely different in the case of the Kespa rating, as it has bias even within the subject whom it describes: the differentiation of ratings of the games that it is calculated from.
So you're saying that a random proleague game should be valued as much as a starleague finals, and that prelims aren't supposed to be counted?
I'm pretty sure Kespa rating is a much better ranking system, it has much less fluctuation due to variance and values individual leagues more, as one should.
On August 01 2011 22:44 xarthaz wrote: yes, the formula is biased, lets be honest. Because there exists bias regarding the valuation of games: not all games are valued equally. Hence the Kespa rating being biased, unlike ELO, where Bisu's rank is more reasonable.
Why should games be valued equally? Obviously some games are going to have more significance over other games and hence should accordingly have a higher weightage. The two rating systems differ in what they measure too, elo more of skill and Kespa more of a player's value in terms of his success and value to his team. For the latter, ascribing weightage makes sense.
On August 01 2011 23:02 xarthaz wrote:
On August 01 2011 22:46 TwoToneTerran wrote: By your definition, TL Elo is biased. Since the only way to be unbiased is to treat all games equally, then Prelims should be counted (Kespa Ranking does count prelims).
You misunderstand. Elo IS unbiased, with regard to the games that are a subject of it. The games that are not a subject of it, it does not even attempt to make a statement about, hence it not being bias.
This is completely different in the case of the Kespa rating, as it has bias even within the subject whom it describes: the differentiation of ratings of the games that it is calculated from.
The point TTT was trying to make is that if all games are treated equally, then prelim games are equal to that of a regular PL match or SL match and hence should be included in the calculation of elo. If you assume them to be equal, excluding those matches would be arbitrary. Hence Elo WOULD be biased, in spite of not arbitrarily ascribing weightage to games unlike ELO. You can't subtype it and call it a completely different case. Bias is bias.
The concept of equality is misunderstood here. Applying it to compare the test sample to that which is not sampled is nonsensical - there exist no claims about its relevance to the subject. Such an argument cannot exist in the first place due to assuming concept of choice being outside the realm of action - an absurd idea, due to the praxeological limitations of comprehension of mind.
There do however exist claims regarding its relevance to the games that are in question. This implies the validity of the bias argument with regards to the Kespa rating, but Invalidates the argument as it is applied to Elo.
Actually, no, I specifically claimed the samples as relevant to the subject. Elo ranks some games and not others on an arbitrary basis. Just because it does so with absolute equality of all games does not mean it is not arbitrarily biased against certain, equally competitive, games.
It'd be silly to say the Kespa Ranking wasn't biased when it was made almost explicitly to mathematically reward more prestigious accomplishments. The system itself has a built in level of bias, Elo is biased by exclusion.
This is all kind of silly, though. I just didn't like your assertion that Kespa rank had no reasonable purpose with Elo around when they clearly serve two distinct, different, and nice evaluations.
On August 02 2011 06:48 koreasilver wrote: The end of a long era. It's really hard to believe that Jaedong has been usurped from his top Zerg throne in the Kespa rankings.
On August 02 2011 06:48 koreasilver wrote: The end of a long era. It's really hard to believe that Jaedong has been usurped from his top Zerg throne in the Kespa rankings.
did calm cheat him out a while ago?
No. The player that has most consistently been close to Jaedong was always Zero, and Zero passing Jaedong isn't that shocking, as he's been one of the top Zergs for a long while now. But Hydra suddenly surging the way he did is really surprising to me. Even Effort in his prime wasn't able to do that, but when Effort was playing well so was Jaedong, so I guess the timing just worked out well for Hydra.
The race pattern is so weird in this ranking... #1 player is Terran, #2-#10 is almost all Protoss/Zerg, #11-#19 is almost all Terran, and #20-#30 is almost all Protoss/Zerg again...
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
Get into a Starleague? His last run was in 2008 if i remember It's 2011.
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
Get into a Starleague? His last run was in 2008 if i remember It's 2011.
On August 02 2011 07:32 matjlav wrote: The race pattern is so weird in this ranking... #1 player is Terran, #2-#10 is almost all Protoss/Zerg, #11-#19 is almost all Terran, and #20-#30 is almost all Protoss/Zerg again...
Hi, I'm Terran, I have a bunch of mid level progamers and no great ones and that's why zergs dominate every league! (besides flash)
On August 02 2011 07:32 matjlav wrote: The race pattern is so weird in this ranking... #1 player is Terran, #2-#10 is almost all Protoss/Zerg, #11-#19 is almost all Terran, and #20-#30 is almost all Protoss/Zerg again...
Hi, I'm Terran, I have a bunch of mid level progamers and no great ones and that's why zergs dominate every league! (besides flash)
Hi, I'm Protoss, none of my good progamers even qualify for leagues.
On August 02 2011 07:32 matjlav wrote: The race pattern is so weird in this ranking... #1 player is Terran, #2-#10 is almost all Protoss/Zerg, #11-#19 is almost all Terran, and #20-#30 is almost all Protoss/Zerg again...
Hi, I'm Terran, I have a bunch of mid level progamers and no great ones and that's why zergs dominate every league! (besides flash)
Fantasy won OSL. My beloved brotoss brethren can't even qualify anymore.
On August 02 2011 07:32 matjlav wrote: The race pattern is so weird in this ranking... #1 player is Terran, #2-#10 is almost all Protoss/Zerg, #11-#19 is almost all Terran, and #20-#30 is almost all Protoss/Zerg again...
Hi, I'm Terran, I have a bunch of mid level progamers and no great ones and that's why zergs dominate every league! (besides flash)
Hi, I'm Protoss, none of my good progamers even qualify for leagues.
This is a direct result of terrans sucking and there being 20 zergs in every tournament. Doesn't help protoss having to go through 10 different zergs just to qualify because terrans suck too much to knock em out.
On August 02 2011 07:32 matjlav wrote: The race pattern is so weird in this ranking... #1 player is Terran, #2-#10 is almost all Protoss/Zerg, #11-#19 is almost all Terran, and #20-#30 is almost all Protoss/Zerg again...
Hi, I'm Terran, I have a bunch of mid level progamers and no great ones and that's why zergs dominate every league! (besides flash)
Fantasy won OSL. My beloved brotoss brethren can't even qualify anymore.
Yeah Oov is really really good at making gameplans.
Wow, two Zergs above Jaedong? That's really insane...
I'm not surprised that Jaedong got surpassed by Hydra given that Hydra has been doing really well lately in SLs. But I'm a bit surprised that Zero surpassed him as well. I know Zero is great and he got to the final of last MSL but Hydra won 1 MSL and was in the semis of the most recent one. Moreover Hydra just advanced to Ro8 OSL while Zero wasn't even in Ro16...
its so tough for protoss now that games are a lot more macro oriented..protoss is a lot harder to do well in and if your good enough to be in top 30 then my hats off to you.
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
Perform in individual leagues.
Specifically, not get kicked out of OSL preliminaries.
A statement of correction has been made to the original release. Hydra indeed #1 zerg this month (#2 overall), sorry for the confusion (not my fault ㅜㅜ)
On August 02 2011 14:33 rift wrote: Elo = actual success in terms of games won / loss against certain players KeSPA = general league success, winning an overall series matters more
KeSPA is also slower to update, while Elo is instant.
It's preference really. i prefer Elo; Bisu is demolishing Proleague and has a 75% win rate, he's doing just as well as Flash this year.
well the fact that hes demolishing proleague but yet failing in individual leagues does not make him any better than the top four ranking imo. All of them have general success in proleague and also maintaining a decent progress in individual leagues.~
On August 01 2011 17:14 darkemperor wrote: Bisu bias is mindblowing as always. What does this kid have to do? Win 150 games in proleague? He should be over Jaedong already.
It is absolutely impossible for Kespa Ranking to be biased, as it acts on a completely strict formula.
But that algorithm was designed with a bias against Bisu since it counts OSL
On August 21 2011 03:59 ggggbabybabybaby wrote: When was the last time Jaedong was 3rd Zerg?
Slumpy McSlumperson.
Way too harsh, this is more a result of others catching up than JD failing. I'd really contend anyone claiming that he is performing below 80% of his historical potential. With the exception of Effort JD has been the only zerg to be able to achieve things for way too long. And now 5 Z's in the top 10. If anything this is a demonstration of the newly found strength of the race.
On August 21 2011 03:59 ggggbabybabybaby wrote: When was the last time Jaedong was 3rd Zerg?
Slumpy McSlumperson.
Way too harsh, this is more a result of others catching up than JD failing. I'd really contend anyone claiming that he is performing below 80% of his historical potential. With the exception of Effort JD has been the only zerg to be able to achieve things for way too long. And now 5 Z's in the top 10. If anything this is a demonstration of the newly found strength of the race.
Zerg power supreme.
It feels like theres been 5 zergs in the top 10 for a long time. I remember always seeing JD, Effort, Zero, Kwanro, and Calm in there about a year ago.
On August 02 2011 14:33 rift wrote: Elo = actual success in terms of games won / loss against certain players KeSPA = general league success, winning an overall series matters more
KeSPA is also slower to update, while Elo is instant.
It's preference really. i prefer Elo; Bisu is demolishing Proleague and has a 75% win rate, he's doing just as well as Flash this year.
ELO favors PL because PL has more games played. Not only that, but almost no one in Starleagues matches the top players' PL win-rates, both because of the caliber of the competition and because of the format.
KeSPA ranking favors the Starleagues at least a little bit, and mostly because it's designed to do so.
While both have issues, I feel that overall KeSPA is the most equitable in terms of representing "results" (league wins as well as PL play) since the SC scene is hybrid, while ELO is better at representing what might be called either "quality of play" or "consistency".
On August 21 2011 03:59 ggggbabybabybaby wrote: When was the last time Jaedong was 3rd Zerg?
Slumpy McSlumperson.
Way too harsh, this is more a result of others catching up than JD failing. I'd really contend anyone claiming that he is performing below 80% of his historical potential. With the exception of Effort JD has been the only zerg to be able to achieve things for way too long. And now 5 Z's in the top 10. If anything this is a demonstration of the newly found strength of the race.
Zerg power supreme.
It feels like theres been 5 zergs in the top 10 for a long time. I remember always seeing JD, Effort, Zero, Kwanro, and Calm in there about a year ago.
On August 21 2011 03:59 ggggbabybabybaby wrote: When was the last time Jaedong was 3rd Zerg?
Slumpy McSlumperson.
Way too harsh, this is more a result of others catching up than JD failing. I'd really contend anyone claiming that he is performing below 80% of his historical potential. With the exception of Effort JD has been the only zerg to be able to achieve things for way too long. And now 5 Z's in the top 10. If anything this is a demonstration of the newly found strength of the race.
Zerg power supreme.
It feels like theres been 5 zergs in the top 10 for a long time. I remember always seeing JD, Effort, Zero, Kwanro, and Calm in there about a year ago.
EPT
Flash [KT] 2,564.3 - 
Hydra [CJ] 2,135.3 (+1) 
Bisu [SKT] 1,770.3 - 
Oh well go go go! 
