Welcome back to fantasy MSL! Inspired by the popularity of TeamLiquid's official Proleague and GTSL fantasy leagues, and due to the lack of the same for the MSL since semioldguy ran one years ago (Winter '08-'09, Lost Saga MSL, Luxury won), this season I'm reviving the tradition. (Despite flamewheel's okay, this is not an official TL event.)
I am aware that the order players are listed in wasn't really a R1/R2/R3 thing, but most teams were listed from best to worst, so I threw it in (plus this is how I had to count them out).
The Prize: Winner gets pride, glory, and (because what's a competition without a prize?) your choice of a TL Store shirt (as long as it's in stock). I will contact the winner to arrange shipping etc.
The Rules
Team
Pick 8 players from the 56 qualified for the MST and MSL tournaments.
Races: You must have at least two races represented on your team. Cost: Your 8 players must have no more than 6 stars between them.
Signups are now closed. If you missed it, you have to wait for next season. This thread is for discussion only. Trading will open after the MSL Groups Selection Ceremony.
Scoring
Players will earn points as follows:
Base Points Group Play (MST, MSL Ro32) Game Win: 1 point Bracket Play (MSL Ro16-Final) Game Win: 2 points Game Loss: -1 point
Bonuses Advance to the Next Round: 1 point Advance Undefeated: 1 point Winstreak: 1 point every three wins
Trading
You will have the opportunity to trade players at two points:
First Trade: After the MST concludes and the MSL groups selection ceremony is finished, you may trade up to three players. The two-race rule must be observed. Second Trade: When the MSL bracket is reseeded (Round of Eight), you may trade up to two players. The two-race rule need not be observered.
There are no trading penalties.
When trading, you must trade for an equal- or lower-seeded player. (Seeding is indicated by stars.)
This is not a sign-up thread. Do not post a team here with no discussion. Do not PM me with your team, it will not be signed up. Your Questions Answered
Read these first before asking questions. I'll post answers to new questions in the thread and copy them here.
EDIT: There's a question on whether the quality of players should also be limited. Where FPL/FGTSL has a numerical cost, the FMSL system is judged by seed, indicated by stars. It was proposed that the total star count therefore be limited. Let me know what you think. Poll:
Poll: Team Creation:
Add the proposed 6-star limit as well. (12)
80%
Keep as-is (only limit is 2-race rule). (3)
20%
15 total votes
Your vote: Team Creation:
(Vote): Keep as-is (only limit is 2-race rule). (Vote): Add the proposed 6-star limit as well.
On July 02 2011 02:23 Release wrote: If a player, say flash, gets knocked out, could he be traded for someone else?
Yes. Getting rid of players who drop out is the main reason I included trading in this system.
On July 02 2011 00:23 DejaVu119 wrote: what's the restriction on how many 2 star players you can have? or can i have all 2 star players if i wanted.
No restrictions based on seeding. Stars (= seeding) is for trading purposes only. Depending how this works out, next season I may (have to) add restrictions on how many players at which level you can have, but without some evidence I'm not sure how to set the limits on 1-stars vs no-stars. 2-stars (MSL seeds) have a built-in "power limiter" in that they're not playing in the first round (MST), so that every one you put on your team is (at least potentially) giving up points.
On July 02 2011 00:18 flamewheel wrote: I like this format... though is the only restriction to the original selection based on race?
Without restrictions I can't help but guess that most players will have Flash, Jaedong, and Hydra (maybe Bisu if you still have faith). Something like an arbitrary 5 star restriction for the opening betting would be better. That way if you chose Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu everyone else would have to be non-seed. Or whatever. I'm interested either way.
I would pick my 3 favourite toss and 2 favourite others. I find that rooting for your favourite players rather than whose on a streak is more fun. All 8 of my probable picks are true entertainers for me:
Even though Stork has been hovering around 40% for a while he is still my favourite and I will not lose my faith. Bisu may have not made it past the Ro16 in over 2 years, but with his ability it might as well be now or never. Snow has the potential for greatness and this could be his breakout season even more than PDPop.
Fantasy impresses me with his builds, especially versus Zerg. Baby's harassment is so good it annoys me. If I had to drop serious cash on which player without a SL Title yet is most likely to win multiple in his career, I would choose Baby.
The Woongjin Zergs should speak for themselves. Terrans better guard their command centers if you know what I mean.
Though when the actual MST groups are decided I may change my mind, of course.
On July 03 2011 02:24 Crisium wrote: Without restrictions I can't help but guess that most players will have Flash, Jaedong, and Hydra (maybe Bisu if you still have faith). Something like an arbitrary 5 star restriction for the opening betting would be better. That way if you chose Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu everyone else would have to be non-seed. Or whatever. I'm interested either way.
I think the other thing to consider is that non-seeded players who advance will have played more games. If, say, Hoejja advances a couple rounds, he'll have a bunch of points before Flash even plays. Obviously you want people who will make it to the semis and finals, but you also want people who advance several rounds from the MST.
Since groups haven't been declared (and therefore signups aren't open), I'm open to shifting things a little bit, depending on opinion.
A team picked at random would average 5.7 stars if I'm doing my math right. If I added in a limit, for this initial season it will be 6 stars total. I still think that for the initial season it would be better to see how things work out with no limit - but that's my opinion. Anyway, I added a poll to the OP to get a feel for where people are on this one.
The only problem with that restriction is that no one would pick Grape.
Maybe it's messing around with the system too much, but I can't help but feel that last season's semi-finalists are a league above those that lost in the Ro8. I'd want to see the Ro8 losers also be 1 star. It still makes it tough to choose between, say, Mind and Sea. Mind is guaranteed into the Ro32, but Sea could own up his MST group 2-0, advance from Ro32 2-1, and get you 6-7 points. Mind could go 0-2 and lose you 2 points. Hopefully you can follow what I mean here: The Ro8 losers are not really better than the MST seeds like Sea (or Bisu).
The more I think about it, with the current system there should not be a star restriction. But there should be a semi-finalist restriction. I'd much rather see a restriction of "Maximum 1 (or 2, whatever is best) of Flash, ZerO, Hydra, Jaedong".
I voted for the 6-star restriction, but I'd rather see something a bit different, if you follow me here.
On July 03 2011 03:04 Crisium wrote: The more I think about it, with the current system there should not be a star restriction. But there should be a semi-finalist restriction. I'd much rather see a restriction of "Maximum 1 (or 2, whatever is best) of Flash, ZerO, Hydra, Jaedong".
The difficulty I'm anticipating - and the reason why I'd rather start with no restriction - is that this is something I want to keep running over multiple seasons. In all honesty, the last MSL's field was weak. Calm is mediocre for the last year and living on the inherited seeding from his title; Mind was on a hot streak; Grape is good and lucky but young; Leta is all over the place right now although he unquestionably has S-class potential. I don't believe Hydra is good enough to maintain his results (although to be honest he's rapidly proving me wrong and I mostly just dislike CJ Zergs); ZerO is inconsistent beyond imagining even if he's one of my favorite players. Flash and Jaedong, of course, I'm not questioning - but at the same time Flash has health questions and Jaedong's showed weaknesses on and off for the past few months.
The problem with a "semi-final" restriction is - what if the KeSPA ranking had been a bit different and the Ro8 had been Leta vs Grape, Jaedong vs ZerO, Mind vs Calm, Flash vs Hydra? Arguably you could have had a Grape vs Calm (or Mind, the argument holds regardless), Flash vs ZerO semifinal round. Basically, what I'm saying is I'm trying to build this system on MSL results only, and leave the team-choosing up to the players. Even in FPL, for instance, if Bisu and Flash are both 9 points (say), you know Bisu's more likely to return you more points because SKT wins more than KT based on supporting cast.
Back to FMSL. Do you choose Grape when you could take Flash? Probably not... but what if someone takes a flyer on a rookie based on groups, and Flash goes down in the Ro32 to an unscouted proxy-gate and a random PvT loss on a bad map, and the rookie advances 2-0? Or say Jaedong gets stuck with a group with Bisu and Hydra or soO or Calm: there's an off-chance he loses there.
I'd like to run the first season without restrictions to see if any patterns emerge. If their are definite patterns, then I can switch over to some sort of cost system or further team-choice restrictions. But even there you're going to get uneven costs (your life depends on it: do you draft Flash (finalist) or ZerO (finalist)? ... yeah, duh.
pretty safe team from me, first three are the ones i think would do well from the nonstars. horang2 the only one who shows good results from the 1-star. last 4 are safe picks to get to semis, finals, or win the msl. i hesitate to pick anyone from SKT because mainly im an anti-fan and they have upcoming proleague finals
On July 04 2011 23:19 Pippah wrote: So... If I pick Flash he will earn me no points until he get in at the ro16 (or whenever?).
Ro32. No points during MST (max points for the MST round is 4) but seeds (especially the #1) have huge control over groups so he'll have an advantageous Ro32 group. Your call.
On July 04 2011 23:19 Pippah wrote: Will the rookies I pick whom do well increase in "stars" so I can potentialy trade them for someone else later?
Personally I think Movie is a steal and Sea has a good MST group so he might go far. I know it's a risk, but he might go all the way =) It's a tough choice between stork or great though.
there is a problem here i think, i the case of 2 people choosing the exactly same team and scoring to be 1st place there is no way to tiebreak. You should put a new rule like "Choose ur captain" (the one you think is going to win the whole thing) so there is going to be really unlikely to have 2 persons with the same team and same captain
On July 07 2011 14:16 AnyOne wrote: there is a problem here i think, i the case of 2 people choosing the exactly same team and scoring to be 1st place there is no way to tiebreak. You should put a new rule like "Choose ur captain" (the one you think is going to win the whole thing) so there is going to be really unlikely to have 2 persons with the same team and same captain
An add-on to that tiebreaker could be what was used for the last fantasy OSL ( I think it was korean air season 2) - Pick the champion and how many losses they'll accumulate over the course of the MSL
On July 05 2011 13:30 Dane S wrote: Fantasy still rated 1 star after last night?
Yes. Stars are based on MSL performance (the exact system will likely be revised somewhat next season).
On July 07 2011 14:16 AnyOne wrote: there is a problem here i think, i the case of 2 people choosing the exactly same team and scoring to be 1st place there is no way to tiebreak. You should put a new rule like "Choose ur captain" (the one you think is going to win the whole thing) so there is going to be really unlikely to have 2 persons with the same team and same captain
I'm hoping we won't need a tiebreaker! Captains won't cut it in this format - most players will be choosing the same player as "captain", I'd guess. Right now, my contingency plan is (a) if we get down to the semis and we have an almost-guaranteed tie, I'll ask for predictions for the remaining sets, and (b) restructuring the cost system next season to cut down on the number of near-identical teams!
On July 07 2011 23:59 Sd13 wrote: So Hoejja is out , how do I trade then ?
At the trade period (after MST finishes and MSL group ceremony) you can trade players. You can trade HoeJJa for any other no-star player (for instance, Jangbi, who advanced).
Thanks for all the work. I really appreciate it and am looking forward to it. One thing though, I've noticed that there are some teams that do not meet the 2 race each requirement (on the signup thread and on the spreadsheet). How are you planning on implementing this?
Thanks for all the work. I really appreciate it and am looking forward to it. One thing though, I've noticed that there are some teams that do not meet the 2 race each requirement (on the signup thread and on the spreadsheet). How are you planning on implementing this?
"Races: You must have at least two races represented on your team." It looks like everyone has at least 2 races on their team, actually.
On July 09 2011 07:48 hipaul wrote: I've noticed that there are some teams that do not meet the 2 race each requirement (on the signup thread and on the spreadsheet). How are you planning on implementing this?
The requirement is at least two races, not two of each race. I was paying attention (two teams that were "signed up" got left off for breaking requirements, and a third was left out because the member got nuked), but if I missed somebody who doesn't meet the standards, shoot me a PM (with link to post) and I'll resolve it.
On July 09 2011 08:09 IntoTheEmo wrote: Also, no one has Jaehoon on their team?
On July 10 2011 00:43 VGhost wrote: -- at least two races, not two of each race.
Being as stupid and careless as I am, I read it said two of each race. Noticed my mistake before posting the team, but the team actually came out alright regardless so I stuck with it. Yay me.
I don't really understand the point of updating scores in the middle of a round. Leading at this point just means your players play earlier than others'. Even a score at the end of the MST doesn't say much, since the leading teams are going to be the unseeded-heavy teams. I'm not saying not to update the scores, just saying they don't mean much :D
Well, I'm 2nd in the standings and I have ZerO, Jaedong and BeSt whose groups are not played yet. Damn, I'm so good :D and happy :D Bisu+BaBy was a huge hit, despite I thought it would be Bisu with 2 points and BaBy with 4
On July 21 2011 23:22 Djagulingu wrote: Well, I'm 2nd in the standings and I have ZerO, Jaedong and BeSt whose groups are not played yet. Damn, I'm so good :D and happy :D Bisu+BaBy was a huge hit, despite I thought it would be Bisu with 2 points and BaBy with 4
With Bisu advancing I'm always a winner.
Regardless, I have 14 points with 5 ppl that haven't played yet: Hydra, Jaedong, Stork, By.Sun
On July 21 2011 23:22 Djagulingu wrote: Well, I'm 2nd in the standings and I have ZerO, Jaedong and BeSt whose groups are not played yet. Damn, I'm so good :D and happy :D Bisu+BaBy was a huge hit, despite I thought it would be Bisu with 2 points and BaBy with 4
With Bisu advancing I'm always a winner.
Regardless, I have 14 points with 5 ppl that haven't played yet: Hydra, Jaedong, Stork, By.Sun
So I'm feeling confident!
That's 4 people, mate. Lol I was wondering how you had 14 points with 5 people yet to play, since the max is 4 points per player (and 5 people left=3 played) but you just counted your players wrong :p
I have Flash, Stork, Soulkey left to play, and I'm at 18 points right now.
On July 21 2011 23:22 Djagulingu wrote: Well, I'm 2nd in the standings and I have ZerO, Jaedong and BeSt whose groups are not played yet. Damn, I'm so good :D and happy :D Bisu+BaBy was a huge hit, despite I thought it would be Bisu with 2 points and BaBy with 4
With Bisu advancing I'm always a winner.
Regardless, I have 14 points with 5 ppl that haven't played yet: Hydra, Jaedong, Stork, By.Sun
So I'm feeling confident!
That's 4 people, mate. Lol I was wondering how you had 14 points with 5 people yet to play, since the max is 4 points per player (and 5 people left=3 played) but you just counted your players wrong :p
I have Flash, Stork, Soulkey left to play, and I'm at 18 points right now.
My bad, I meant 4. And I'm very confident in the padiwan Sun.
Thanks for updating the results VGhost. PugoWar looks like he's in a lot of trouble!
Updated through Week 5 (Groups 11 & 12). The MST is now complete. Trading will open after the MSL Groups Selection Ceremony. An updated player list of MSL qualifiers has been added to the "Players" section of the OP.
On August 22 2011 00:26 N.geNuity wrote: when is the group selection ceremony?
Early October according to an article on fomos. It says they are currently working hard to find a sponsor, and are hopeful to have the group selection ceremony early in October.
If anyone was still wondering what was going on with this, here is the final resolution:
-> There are currently seven people tied for first place. This is too many to assign a winner, especially as the league was never complete. -> I will instead be running a fantasy OSL for the same prize, with similar scoring, once further details are announced as to format. -> Points scored so far in this MSL draw (off the MST) will serve as some kind of tiebreaker in the OSL competition.
Further details will of course be forthcoming; for now I'd appreciate it if a mod could close this thread as this is an announcement only and the competition is at this point outdated.
EPT
Flash
ZerO
Grape
, how do I trade then ?
