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On June 21 2011 21:46 Caos2 wrote:
Thanks for the translation.
While Bisu's new style of PvZ is working wonders for him, harassment based strategies are much more fun to watch.
Really? I find it utterly boring when the protoss flies a shuttle around for 10 minutes and kills some drones, then loses pathetically when he suddenly realizes he has no army while the zerg starts streaming cracklings from five bases. Bisu's way of out-muscling zergs is a beautiful thing to watch.
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[T/N: Basically, it seems smart hotkey usage, allowing for storms when and where you need them, plus complete scouting information is how Bisu does it.
I think I'd interpret that as meaning you want your Zealots in a separate control group so you can use them properly. They're a very powerful unit but most Protoss clump them up with their whole army, which means their aggregate of attack is much lower. It's kind of like how Terran make medic walls to block lings at the front.
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On June 21 2011 22:09 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +[T/N: Basically, it seems smart hotkey usage, allowing for storms when and where you need them, plus complete scouting information is how Bisu does it. I think I'd interpret that as meaning you want your Zealots in a separate control group so you can use them properly. They're a very powerful unit but most Protoss clump them up with their whole army, which means their aggregate of attack is much lower. It's kind of like how Terran make medic walls to block lings at the front.
The zealots are definitely in a different control group much like you have it in PvT, but having the HT in their own group makes it easier to smartcast. I know when I attack move my group of goon+obs+HT, what happens is that the obs go too far forward and get sniped, and as my goons stop to engage the HT just keep on walking forward and I end up getting maybe 3 storms off max before they all die. Having them all in different control groups (or at least, with some overlap) makes for tougher army control, but more effectiveness if you can do it right.
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Thanks for the translation!
Will start working on my Bisufication, no one will stop me in the ladder.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Well that article was less than I expected it to be.
Basically it just was a longer writeup than usual that says: some of Bisu's biggest strenghts in PvZ are his saircontrol, probecontrol and hilarious multitasking. I won't even count that "control group" thingy as it is obvious to put goon/temp in same group and zealots seperately. Literally every Protoss over C does that. I could write a lot more about Bisu's PvZ because as far as that gets as a foreigner [and obviously a lot worse] my style really IS Bisu's style in PvZ because he's the guy I taught myself everything off. Also he is the main reason why I love sairs.
It's really so much more to his PvZ than most people even can understand, it's kind of hard to explain.
Bisu never misses a probe, pylon or anything, even the way he sets up his workers follows the same setup. And that's where the magic already starts.
How many games you saw Bisu hitting with ~8 Zealots and even +1 on those when the Zerg literally had 10 lings and 1 sunken, leaving you wondering why a Progamer does play like a little C+ noobek?
It's just that timing, seriously, Bisu is not innovative when it comes down to "creating" own buildorders - in fact the atual Bisu build should becalled the "DaezanG build" - but in perfectionizing them.
And be sure he's hilariously good at it.
So good that it leaves Zergs wondering how the FUCKING hell this guy could attack nearly 5 seconds faster than ANY other Protoss they ever play, even his sairs seem to always net atleast 2 overlord kills; sometimes a lot more.
It really really shows how good his buildorders are, you can't copy them and make them work as he does either. It's a perfect mix of timing, knowledge of how to abuse this very timing window to the maximum and the control to actually make all of this happen.
Imagine Stork - the arguably 2nd best person in PvZ to hit at his first zealstrike with at lets say 7:25? Well then progamers would be used to have this strike hit at say 7:27 because their practice partners are not Stork. Now Imagine Bisu. He's gonna hit them at 7:23 instead. 4 seconds are WORLDS in terms of buildorders.
The one thing I really have to agree with the OP's article with is the speed that is Bisu. You can't do the things he does if you're not that fast. Normal people do slight macro mistakes while harassing with the Zeals, keeping the sairs active 24/7 and expanding.
Obviously, there's lot's of things to do in this period of time. However, you could give Bisu twice as much to do and he'd still sit there and do it with a smile on his face. Atleast in PvZ.
He also has the sickest storming of them all in PvZ, which kind of comes naturally to you if you love PvZ tho, personally after 1,5 year in ToT), my storming was absurd good as well [funny note about it is that you'd fail completely against "bad" players sometimes trying to predict their movements], but the level of storming Bisu performs is sometimes seriously "imba".
You often think wtf, this guy seems to know where the opponent will go before he even moved, eh?
Erase the seem. He DOES know. That's what 10.000++++ PvZ do for you.
That's already one part where Bisu's biggest strenght really shines through. Game sense. This guy has senses they're better than your knowledge with a fucking maphack turned on.
Bisu keeps saying scout a lot with your sair. I think some people misunderstand that a lot.
We foreigners think of scouting as in: check opponents base for tech structures.
The most obvious scouting timing is before scourge pop and slightly after again to confirm no tech switch has been done.
There's 2-3 more such timings later on and that's about it with his actual "scouting"!
The rest he does with sairs is mapcontrol and ovi-harass which isn't actual "scouting" for tech but rather he to constantly keep track off the movement of your opponent!
Bisu most definitely always knows in which area the opposing army is currently residing in and adjusts his own army position according to information, if he has control of the middle.
This whole part is often totally overlooked - but that's all part of what a progamer considers "scouting".
I guess his macro needs little "explanation", he's just better at making units than almost every other Protoss (except Best, the waster) in PvZ - which is as the OP kind of explained - based on his expansion timings that allows him to always have some more units at a given time.
Reaver timing is incredibly important in PvZ nowadays btw - not something that hard to pull of tho.
The thing hardest to explain about Bisu is his decision making, he always knows when to retreat and when to engage a fight, with some of the most delicious micro on earth when actually doing so.
This is part of the reason why Bisu's decision making sometimes might seem a little odd and creates a lot of "wtf" moments. He perfectly knows on how to engage a line of lurkers with zealots so that only very few ones - except if the Zerg target fires - of them will hurt which makes him often plow through lines of those as if they we're nothing.
To even see and notice such things even in a VOD is hard for an untrained eye, now imagine how fucking hard it is to pull that off especially when you have 3 other controlgroups of units to micro, storms to put up, observers to dance and macro to do meanwhile...
Without being able to perform such micro actions simultaneously it's not really possible to do the decisions he does because if you can't - the correct decision for Bisu might just be the worst one possible for you.
To sum it up, if you want to be even nearly as good as Bisu in PvZ get used to the thought to have to play 10k of games against the very best Zergs of the world, then you might be able to understand but still not replicate the "how" he does it.
I could go on writing more and more on Bisu, but people might end up taking this as a personal love letter to Kim Taek Yong himself if so.
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Japan11286 Posts
Well, bisu didn't say that much because he can't just give the secrets of BvZ to some random guy. Its like giving a guy in the street, launch codes for a nuke.
I will now pwn zergs left and right now that I have been..... enlightened XD
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On June 21 2011 23:02 c3rberUs wrote:
...now that I have been..... enlightened XD
chances are nobody might see you if so...
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On June 21 2011 22:52 iNfeRnaL wrote:
I could go on writing more and more on Bisu, but people might end up taking this as a personal love letter to Kim Taek Yong himself if so.
Nothing wrong with that, its Bisu, gods gift to BW after all.
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On June 21 2011 23:19 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 22:52 iNfeRnaL wrote:
I could go on writing more and more on Bisu, but people might end up taking this as a personal love letter to Kim Taek Yong himself if so. Nothing wrong with that, its Bisu, gods gift to BW after all.
Bisu: Winning the battles, losing the war.
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Thanks so much for the writeup Infernal.
I started translating it once I saw the title, and I was initially a little let down by how deceptively simple it appeared to be, but after some deeper thought I realized that really, those are the keys that separate him from the rest, though your analysis of his precise BOs is quite on too. I definitely wanted to elaborate more on the article because I felt that words like "scouting" didn't accurately capture what he was talking about. Like you said, there's so much more to his PvZ that has to be experienced, but I didn't feel it was my place as translator to put that in, but rather (as you did, quite well) dig deeper in the comments.
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Amazing writeup Infernal.
To sum it up, nobody can play the same style than Bisu in PvZ because it requires GODLY multitasking.
Infernal pointed out several of Bisu qualities, but PvZ is such a dynamic matchup, with so many things happening at a given time, that you just can't be an amazing player without amazing multitasking, no matter how good your game sense, understanding of the game or whatever is.
Bisu being such an outstading player with such poor results only makes it obvious to me how fragile the protoss race is.
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The "how to play" part is funny because I'm sure lots of other professional Protoss players have the idea but simply cannot make it happen due to lacking something (be it multitask prowess, game sense, or whatnot). Much more the average Toss player hehehe
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On June 22 2011 00:01 lone_hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 23:19 Oystein wrote:On June 21 2011 22:52 iNfeRnaL wrote:
I could go on writing more and more on Bisu, but people might end up taking this as a personal love letter to Kim Taek Yong himself if so. Nothing wrong with that, its Bisu, gods gift to BW after all. Bisu: Winning the battles, losing the war.
I hate you so much for being right
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Hard Counter Hyvaa? Hard counter is Stork. I think stork has gone 6-0 against Bisu in past 6 games.
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
One of the best articles on TL. I approve! Go BISU!!!!
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Thank you for the writeup Infernal. I learned almost nothing from the original article; I understood just why Bisu succeeds in PvZ from your post.
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holy hell, this is exactly what i need...
Gona re work on my hotkeys system...
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If his map control, game sense, and scouting is so good in PvZ, why doesn't this skill translate to PvT? Isn't PvZ more multitasking oriented while PvT more positionally oriented, and if he has good positioning in PvZ, then why not in PvT?
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Thanks for translating! Bisu's PvZ is so mystifying!
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On June 22 2011 06:46 Raz0r wrote:
If his map control, game sense, and scouting is so good in PvZ, why doesn't this skill translate to PvT? Isn't PvZ more multitasking oriented while PvT more positionally oriented, and if he has good positioning in PvZ, then why not in PvT?
PvT unit control is very very different from PvZ - such is positioning, believe me.
Bisu isn't patient enough that's his biggest weakness - and unfortunately in PvT you really need to be patient sometimes. 
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EPT
