EPTPaul Sams Interview: post-negotiation with KeSPA - Page 3
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Garnet
Vietnam9011 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Popss
Sweden176 Posts
On May 27 2011 16:27 prototype. wrote: I'm kinda insulted by the way he views BW-only fans. He needs to pull his head out of his ass and realize not everyone enjoys SC2 as much as BW. In the end all Blizzard is trying to do is offer people a game that people want to play and that is enjoyable for as many people as possible. This is just good business and who's to say a hardcore BW fans opinion about how a good strategy game should be like is worth more than a new SC2 players opinion. If everyone shared the view of SC2 that people that still stick to BW do then Blizzard would most likely make major changes in their expansions to accomodate for what people feel the game is lacking. But a ton of people enjoy SC2 as it is. People who still stick to BW are already marginalized. In the end I'm just as disappointed as everyone else for how SC2 turned out but knowing how a business reasons I don't really have much hope for the future either. People wanted a game with 1a and simple mechanics so Blizzard made them one.  | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
Otherwise, nothing unusual. Blizzard wants to get their foot in the door, and they would like to convert bw->sc2. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On May 27 2011 22:58 Popss wrote: I would say, BW did not play a big role over the years in our culture, so there wasn't much to marginalize. It was big in South Korea only. I feel that WC3 was overall much larger than BW, but compared to SC2 now, even WC3 is not much more than a footnote.But a ton of people enjoy SC2 as it is. People who still stick to BW are already marginalized. On May 27 2011 22:58 Popss wrote: 1a does not really work in progaming, but it can work for nubs like me. So Blizzard pleases everyone (except some hardcore BW fans.) SC2 brought a big breakthrough and got people to play and to watch RTS game. BW never really could do that, with the big exception of South Korea of course.In the end I'm just as disappointed as everyone else for how SC2 turned out but knowing how a business reasons I don't really have much hope for the future either. People wanted a game with 1a and simple mechanics so Blizzard made them one. At the end of the day, I think it is not only the question which game is better. A perfect game, played by a small hardcore group and getting nearly no fresh blood (with the notable exception of kolll who crushed Idra) cannot attract many sponsors. Lets assume, in 10 years we conclude that Legacy of the Void never got as deep as Broodwar. However in 10 years, hardly anyone would play Broodwar anyway. If they at least play Legacy of the Void, the SC legacy continues. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On May 27 2011 22:30 Antisocialmunky wrote: So Kespa basically won what they wanted? Well, it looks like Blizzard succeeded in getting their licensing fees, and KeSPA and friends possibly succeeded in avoiding most of the ridiculous demands that were originally tied to those fees. It seems like a decent compromise considering that Blizzard originally wanted a smooth, perhaps forced transition into SC2 while KeSPA (edit) didn't like Blizzard exerting so much control. Anyways, interesting interview. I'm not really surprised about Sams's rhetoric considering that he is a CEO mainly trying to make a good impression for investors and possibly business partners. Being that high in a bloated corporate bureaucracy tends to make people lose touch of what really matters. In the end, this stuff is just PR. | ||
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Ambasa
United States29 Posts
Well, it looks like Blizzard succeeded in getting their licensing fees, and KeSPA and friends possibly succeeded in avoiding most of the ridiculous demands that were originally tied to those fees. It seems like a decent compromise considering that Blizzard originally wanted a smooth, perhaps forced transition into SC2 while KeSPA originally didn't want Blizzard in the picture at all. Misinformed comments like this spread misinformation :[ KeSPA was always going to pay Blizzard a licensing fee. That was never the problem. The problem had to do with derivative works which Blizzard once claimed 100% rights over and then backed offin the future. Secondly, KeSPA didn't mind Blizzard in the picture. However, I'm sure both blizzard and kespa didn't like each of the party's attitudes towards the situation overall. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
btw, this question was really on the ball: - Does this mean that from now on, as long as original works' IP rights are acknowledged, the rights to the derivative works will be given? Does this also affect StarCraft 2 and other nations? And the answer he gave is one of the strangest i've ever seen. ▲ It's unrealistic to expect everything will proceed like this when all negotiations and contracts can change depending on the situations and conditions. The licensing agreement isn't something that is decided in certain way, and if one side demands their conditions by stating precedences, Blizzard may not participate in negotiations. The negotiations must proceed based upon our and other party's situations. lol? don't use precedents in negotiations? | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:12 [F_]aths wrote: I would say, BW did not play a big role over the years in our culture, so there wasn't much to marginalize. It was big in South Korea only. I feel that WC3 was overall much larger than BW, but compared to SC2 now, even WC3 is not much more than a footnote. 1a does not really work in progaming, but it can work for nubs like me. So Blizzard pleases everyone (except some hardcore BW fans.) SC2 brought a big breakthrough and got people to play and to watch RTS game. BW never really could do that, with the big exception of South Korea of course. At the end of the day, I think it is not only the question which game is better. A perfect game, played by a small hardcore group and getting nearly no fresh blood (with the notable exception of kolll who crushed Idra) cannot attract many sponsors. Lets assume, in 10 years we conclude that Legacy of the Void never got as deep as Broodwar. However in 10 years, hardly anyone would play Broodwar anyway. If they at least play Legacy of the Void, the SC legacy continues. If you are referring to the small hardcore groupas the korean scene then you have terrible bias in your posting. Following the BW proscene, you just can't help but assume that SC2 would have big sponsors too yet it failed miserably. Comparing to the followers of SC2 in US/EU vs BW in Korea where games are treated like real fucking sports is absurd. Compare the followers of CS, WC3 in China, Dota or HoN to SC2 .. You're terrible mistaken if you think that SC2 has the bigger fanbase/viewers. Blizzard failed in SC2 .. They failed in delivering what the scene wanted. SC2 was over-hyped and was created to cater casuals not professional gaming. They failed because they created the game with the design flaw: low skill cap. No one wants to compete seriously in a game where everyone can compete with minimal dedication. Also, comparing the time it took for BW to get big is also questionable. SC2 had the following of BW, if you ignore what BW did to the idea of e-sports, RTS, and gaming design in general and treat as if SC2 designers had the mind-set of RTS designers in the late 90's then there is no use in arguing blind fanboyism. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
Also we don't want to be 'converted'. Surely the fact that KeSPA is still fully active is indication that it's not wanted. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
People are reading too much menace into the "converted" line. Blizz wants people to like SC2. Kind of obvious. And if they're going to work on that goal by letting BW continue and trying to surpass it fairly, more power to them. On May 28 2011 01:21 aimaimaim wrote: If you are referring to the small hardcore groupas the korean scene then you have terrible bias in your posting. Following the BW proscene, you just can't help but assume that SC2 would have big sponsors too yet it failed miserably. Comparing to the followers of SC2 in US/EU vs BW in Korea where games are treated like real fucking sports is absurd. Compare the followers of CS, WC3 in China, Dota or HoN to SC2 .. You're terrible mistaken if you think that SC2 has the bigger fanbase/viewers. Blizzard failed in SC2 .. They failed in delivering what the scene wanted. SC2 was over-hyped and was created to cater casuals not professional gaming. They failed because they created the game with the design flaw: low skill cap. No one wants to compete seriously in a game where everyone can compete with minimal dedication. Also, comparing the time it took for BW to get big is also questionable. SC2 had the following of BW, if you ignore what BW did to the idea of e-sports, RTS, and gaming design in general and treat as if SC2 designers had the mind-set of RTS designers in the late 90's then there is no use in arguing blind fanboyism. To be fair, just because SC2 isn't as big as BW, and isn't likely to be in the foreseeable future, doesn't mean it's a "failure". Incredible Miracle is sponsored by Coca-Cola, which is a pretty big sponsor. The GSTL just got extended into a full-on proleague and had it's prize pool tripled, and the GSL Super Tournament has a ~$92,000 grand prize, which is about a fifth of a starleague grand prize, but it's still a productive month. So SC2's stable, it's growing, and it's no where near BW. All of these things are true. And I think Blizz is just going to accept that and move on and try to grow SC2 organically from now on, because what else can they do? Actually, if the game has as low a skill cap as you claim, you should go and win some tournaments before the bubble pops. There's quite a lot of money to be made right now. | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On May 28 2011 02:03 Ribbon wrote: Nothing unexpected, really. Even I, SC2 fanboy that I am, think BW is better right now, but it's not like Blizz can really say "Our new game is worse than our old one". Even if they follow up by (correctly) sating "But we have too expansions and a lot of pro SC2 players are actually really awful and will eventually fall out in favor of players who don't engage in a 45 minute cavalcade of mutual epic failure during the biggest SC2 tournament in the world" (not that I'm bitter, Revival vs Ensnare set 2), it's bad PR. People are reading too much menace into the "converted" line. Blizz wants people to like SC2. Kind of obvious. And if they're going to work on that goal by letting BW continue and trying to surpass it fairly, more power to them. To be fair, just because SC2 isn't as big as BW, and isn't likely to be in the foreseeable future, doesn't mean it's a "failure". Incredible Miracle is sponsored by Coca-Cola, which is a pretty big sponsor. The GSTL just got extended into a full-on proleague and had it's prize pool tripled, and the GSL Super Tournament has a ~$92,000 grand prize, which is about a fifth of a starleague grand prize, but it's still a productive month. So SC2's stable, it's growing, and it's no where near BW. All of these things are true. And I think Blizz is just going to accept that and move on and try to grow SC2 organically from now on, because what else can they do? Actually, if the game has as low a skill cap as you claim, you should go and win some tournaments before the bubble pops. There's quite a lot of money to be made right now. I am more of a viewer than a player. Though you should realize or you already know that I do not mean to say SC2 is an easy game. I'm trying to say that anyone can still be competitive in SC2 even if they alot lesser time than what they would alot if they want to be competitive in BW because blizzard made it that way but meh, like I said, there is no arguing with fanboyism. You go on ahead and cherish SC2 all you want. As for a fan like me, I'll be chillin here know that Blizzard couldn't or wouldn't interfere with BW for another 2 years more or less if I'm pessimistic. | ||
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
On May 27 2011 22:58 Popss wrote: In the end all Blizzard is trying to do is offer people a game that people want to play and that is enjoyable for as many people as possible. This is just good business and who's to say a hardcore BW fans opinion about how a good strategy game should be like is worth more than a new SC2 players opinion. If everyone shared the view of SC2 that people that still stick to BW do then Blizzard would most likely make major changes in their expansions to accomodate for what people feel the game is lacking. But a ton of people enjoy SC2 as it is. People who still stick to BW are already marginalized. In the end I'm just as disappointed as everyone else for how SC2 turned out but knowing how a business reasons I don't really have much hope for the future either. People wanted a game with 1a and simple mechanics so Blizzard made them one. the problem i have isnt them releasing an easier, shallower game, its that they market this easier, shallower game as an esport when brood war is already a better functioning esport. its a simple money grab | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
SC2 will not succeed in South Korea the way BW has. However, its potential growth outside of South Korea has not reached its limit. IMO the key would be long term sponsorship of teams, with player salaries, and probably a regular team league. But there's been sponsored teams with salaries with other games which haven't led to the scale of success Korean BW has reached, so there's still at least one missing ingredient (I'd say there's many). On May 27 2011 22:58 Popss wrote: In the end all Blizzard is trying to do is offer people a game that people want to play and that is enjoyable for as many people as possible. Do keep in mind that Blizzard's goal is to make money, not just offer something enjoyable. Blizzard wants to sell more games, so naturally BW isn't something they care about and would want to destroy if it was a hindrance to sales. Blizzard is also trying to further monetize its fanbase, with additional (hopefully regular) fees layered on top of the purchase price (which it has tripled with its 3-part strategy). | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On May 28 2011 01:21 aimaimaim wrote: I really cannot support this view.Blizzard failed in SC2 .. They failed in delivering what the scene wanted. SC2 was over-hyped and was created to cater casuals not professional gaming. They failed because they created the game with the design flaw: low skill cap. No one wants to compete seriously in a game where everyone can compete with minimal dedication. Regarding to sales, SC2 delivered almost exactly was "the scene" wanted as it builds its own scene. It does not need to convince every BW player. The BW players can continue to play BW. So everyone can have its preferred game. If you think that minimal dedication is enough to compete in SC2, why don't you to South Korea to earn some monaaayyy in the GSL? Why I am not able to see your name regulary in the Top-8 of western tournaments? Why are SlayerS and other teams, wo practicing A LOT, having good GSTL as well as good individual players standings? | ||
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trulla
Chile303 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On May 28 2011 02:03 Ribbon wrote: Yes. Even though I also feel that BW is much more polished than WoL, I can understand that Blizzard would never admit "We crafted the best RTS out there ... after BW."Nothing unexpected, really. Even I, SC2 fanboy that I am, think BW is better right now, but it's not like Blizz can really say "Our new game is worse than our old one". SC2 needs its time. We have two expansions before us. I consider this a great opportunity. Blizzard can include user feedback twice. In the end, I have trust. I originally refused to play Diablo 2. I bought it later anyway (because I wondered which skills the Babarian has as he is no caster, but has a mana pool.) I got addicted so badly. SO BADLY! I abandoned the original WC3 as I could not stand the moving animation of the knights and the overall comical look. Later I picked up, bought the Collector's Edition (an excellent buy alone because of the art book) WC3 was my main game for years. I got an SC2 beta key with the first wave and my passion for this game still increases. Strangely enough, I still miss something which BW provided. BW feels, this is hard to describe, somehow to be the complete and final RTS. Due to my past experience with Blizzard, I still expect SC2 to succeed BW at some point even though I cannot yet see how. | ||
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
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icouldcareless
United States96 Posts
On May 28 2011 02:58 Legatus Lanius wrote: because some people have yearnings beyond the monetary. it is called integrity Corporations have no such yearnings. Their sole goal is to increase profits. If corporations were people they would be considered psychopaths. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On May 28 2011 02:46 aimaimaim wrote: I am more of a viewer than a player. Though you should realize or you already know that I do not mean to say SC2 is an easy game. I'm trying to say that anyone can still be competitive in SC2 even if they alot lesser time than what they would alot if they want to be competitive in BW because blizzard made it that way but meh, like I said, there is no arguing with fanboyism. I suppose 10 hours a day is a lot less that 14, but I'm miffed by the implications that SC2 players that aren't Nestea, MC, or MVP (i.e., the ones who aren't winning GSLs) are just lazy. (Unless they're Ensnare or Revival, because that game was goddamn awful) But if we're going to continue this conversation, let's do it in PM. No need to derail the thread. On May 28 2011 04:14 icouldcareless wrote: Corporations have no such yearnings. Their sole goal is to increase profits. If corporations were people they would be considered psychopaths. I take it you're not an economist. Kespa and Flash and etc are only in BW for the money, too (despite Kespa's protestations to the contrary). Let's not overlook that. Rational people seek to maximize utility. | ||
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