EPTIn the other hand there are people that like SC2, so they would be affected.
But, what happened to that plan to negotiate with a third party law specialist, and to reach an agreement?
Let the fun begin. Activision Blizzard suing MBC - Page 30
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
In the other hand there are people that like SC2, so they would be affected. But, what happened to that plan to negotiate with a third party law specialist, and to reach an agreement? | ||
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St. Fu
United States75 Posts
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
I've been casually following SC progaming since the days of Boxer, but with decreasing interest over the years - not enough time for gaming, stopped being active in SC/BW etc. I did watch a replay or VOD now and then, but I didn't even know Kespa existed until I read the first of many topics about the struggle here on TL. So I consider myself a fan of the game, but also an "outsider" to this whole Kespa/Blizzard thing. Since I wanted to take part in the discussion I tried to get my hands on as many sources as possible. Forum discussion, articles on other sites, interviews etc. And the consensus of most sources pretty much is: regarding Kespa/Korean Esports scene: - pretty much built up everything from scratch - Kespa doesn't treat players well and has a monopoly on everything that happens - dismissed Blizzard at almost every opportunity in the current conflict - started leagues regardless of the current issues regarding Blizzard: - didn't care about IP rights for years after SC/BW's release - but didn't start caring only recently; it's been 3 years after all - tolerated the game being pirated and played on non-Blizzard servers for a very long time, despite copyright issues being a major topic in the industry All the rest - IP laws (US and Korean), possible influence of Activision, reasons for Blizzards course (money? actual worries about IP?) are things we all can only guess about (that includes all the veteran folks). So you have two sides here. Both haven't done everything right. Both could have been more diplomatic. Sure. Korean Esports is free advertising for Blizz. Sure. Korean Esports may have helped Blizzard/Starcraft's fame. But Blizzard actually created the product everything's about, while the Kespa only uses it. To what extent Blizzard chooses to use their property rights is another topic, but that they have a RIGHT to do so seems clear (even without majoring in law). Personally, I may be a little bit biased. I'm a self-employed instructor and working with scripts I wrote myself (which were a lot of work). I have no trouble with people using my scripts to learn, and most of the time I don't care if they copy them for colleagues or personal use. But whenever I wish something - anything - concerning those scripts, be it use, spreading, revisions or anything else, I fully expect my wishes to be taken seriously, because it's my work after all and I have the last word regarding it. And I don't see why it should be any different with Blizzard and their games. | ||
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nimoraca
Serbia84 Posts
On the other side, it happened before that courts actually took into consideration what is in the best public interest. Just look at the Microsoft vs European Union example. EU practically forced Microsoft to advertise other company products with the whole browser saga (which sounds ridiculous in a capitalistic environment) because they thought that Microsoft was hindering the progress and the development of the internet browsers, and that the decision was in the best public interest. | ||
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Vortok
United States830 Posts
Granted Blizzard probably wants BW to continue and just wants to start getting paid for not doing anything/likely try to manage some of it (lol if they tried to make some 'official Blizzard maps' for Proleague). BW likely won't die if Blizzard wins, though depending on how much money gets sucked from the scene (if they win, again), it's hard to say what impact it would have. Kespa is like a necessary evil. It could use a bit of restructuring to have less asshattery happen, sure, but the organisational role that Kespa provides needs to be filled and they aren't doing -that- horrible of a job. On one hand, I'd like Blizzard to lose. If they actually gave a shit they would've done something a long ass time ago, not get magically interested in IP rights a few months after SC2 comes out. On the other hand, it would be interesting to see a partial win in terms of precedent for the future. Blizzard (and thus potentially any future company) would get some small % royalty for their game being used in situations where money is involved/being made. A much larger portion would still be going to the players and people actually making the scene possible. Thus, in the future, if some small company makes an amazing esport game they could still receive revenue to continue supporting it. Likely gonna just be both sides trying to fuck the other one over as much as possible. -.- If Blizzard wants SC2 to overtake BW, then how about they make the game actually good enough to surpass it. Oh wait, that requires effort and skill and can't be done nearly as fast. Almost like it has to grow into a great game with a huge following/scene. | ||
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ricerocket
154 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:55 nimoraca wrote: How many of SCBW fans are going to the matches to watch the artwork of the game. All those 16x16 pixel units in 256 colors in a 640x480 resolution, with a poor quality sound are really visually appealing. Right? This argument is laughable. Blizzard didn't just create the unit images, they determined how they fit in and how they function within a system, while players determine how they play ACCORDING TO that system. | ||
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ricerocket
154 Posts
On October 26 2010 06:26 Vortok wrote: If Blizzard wants SC2 to overtake BW, then how about they make the game actually good enough to surpass it. Oh wait, that requires effort and skill and can't be done nearly as fast. Almost like it has to grow into a great game with a huge following/scene. Except that for a community of both players and fans that seemed to have been built up through a decade, half of them already switched to SC2 within less than half a year of the game coming out. Gee, what a failure of a game. | ||
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cabarkapa
United States1013 Posts
On October 26 2010 08:14 ricerocket wrote: This argument is laughable. Blizzard didn't just create the unit images, they determined how they fit in and how they function within a system, while players determine how they play ACCORDING TO that system. I still love the look of Starcraft: Brood War anyway  | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On October 26 2010 08:18 ricerocket wrote: Except that for a community of both players and fans that seemed to have been built up through a decade, half of them already switched to SC2 within less than half a year of the game coming out. Gee, what a failure of a game. Just about every major game release starts off with a large number of players. The test for Starcraft 2 is really gonig to come down to its longevity as an eSport. Over a decade after its release, Brood War continues to be played at a professional level and has an eSports infrastructure unlike any other in the world. If Starcraft 2 can match this legacy and continue to be successful after a decade, I'll honestly be impressed because only a small handful of games last anywhere near that long. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On October 26 2010 08:25 LegendaryZ wrote: Just about every major game release starts off with a large number of players. The test for Starcraft 2 is really gonig to come down to its longevity as an eSport. Over a decade after its release, Brood War continues to be played at a professional level and has an eSports infrastructure unlike any other in the world. If Starcraft 2 can match this legacy and continue to be successful after a decade, I'll honestly be impressed because only a small handful of games last anywhere near that long. If there's any tell tale sign that it will last it is that a lot of players, including myself have quit player other games to play sc2. I've been playing wow for 3 years, and now i stopped that to focus on sc2 instead. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On October 26 2010 08:34 darmousseh wrote: If there's any tell tale sign that it will last it is that a lot of players, including myself have quit player other games to play sc2. I've been playing wow for 3 years, and now i stopped that to focus on sc2 instead. Considering the fact that the game hasn't even been out for half a year yet, I think it's really too early to tell anything. Warcraft 3 had a huge number of players too with plenty of them quitting previous games to play it, but it never developed into an eSport on par with Brood War just like CS:Source never really filled the shoes of its predecessor. It's a common story in the gaming world and it's really no surprise that a large release like Starcraft 2 has a huge number of players right now. Blizzard is a pretty popular company and Brood War was one of the best selling games of all time. Right now, Blizzard seems to be timing their expansions with this game pretty slowly so I think we'll probably see the in-game population fluctuate quite a bit for at least a few years with each expansion. Ultimately, however, the novelty will wear off and the next game will come along to consume the time of the masses. In the case of Starcraft 2, I think a big hit to the in-game population will come when Diablo 3 is released. Even though it's not an RTS game, it's going to generate just as much hype and also sports a huge fanbase, many of which are the same Blizzard loyalists that are all playing Starcraft 2 right now. But then again, given Blizzard's pace of doing things, D3 could very easily be delayed another 10 years... -_- | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:51 Shockk wrote: regarding Kespa/Korean Esports scene: - pretty much built up everything from scratch - Kespa doesn't treat players well and has a monopoly on everything that happens - dismissed Blizzard at almost every opportunity in the current conflict - started leagues regardless of the current issues This is misleading though. The players are treated fine, in what other videogames do the players even have salaries? This is the nature of such a niche sport. If you get into any minor Olympic event for example like gymnasium it is HARD WORK. The conditions don't look poor to me from the shows and they eat very handsomely, and have maids even. Yes they play the game up to 12 hours a day, and 8 is a minimum.That is the competition. KeSPA doesn't force this. People who are determined will always do all they can, the teams simply don't want slackers on their teams. Show me a successful BW gamer who didn't practice almost constantly. Also there's no monopoly. Start your own KeSPA, start everything up if you like. But do not like GOM did, expect KeSPA paid and sponsored players to play in your events. Why should they? They are under contract, i'm surprised they were allowed for any GOM leagues and in the end it was the teams and not KeSPA who repeatedly pulled players out until it was nothing. As for leagues starting, what else should they do? Sit on their teams doing nothing waiting for a potentially long lawsuit to progress? Until Blizzard can prove right away a law is being broken in broadcasting that would justify the immediate shut down of the leagues then of course they should carry on as normal. The validity of eSports depends on this lawsuit and god only hopes Blizzard and their ideas do not pan out. On October 26 2010 08:34 darmousseh wrote: If there's any tell tale sign that it will last it is that a lot of players, including myself have quit player other games to play sc2. I've been playing wow for 3 years, and now i stopped that to focus on sc2 instead. A tell-tale sign of SC2's long term viability is an anecdote that you switched to play the game? Ok then. Every new game has players. This is a Blizzard game it always will. But we in this topic care about a varied and interesting proscene. | ||
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ricerocket
154 Posts
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MorningMusume11
United States3490 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On October 26 2010 10:39 ricerocket wrote: Funny how his anecdote isn't good enough for you when your reason for doubting SC2's validity is that you don't like the game. I don't care for the game either way, but saying 'well me and a bunch of other people switched' is dumb reasoning. Remember WC3? I'm only doubting Blizzards ability to run an eSport or do anything like what KeSPA has done, stick to developing Starcraft 2 as i see pretty of complaints constantly from people already. They have lag at their own fucking LAN events for christ sake. The game itself is irrelevant in the discussion, i don't find it too fun but a lot do so thats fine. But this is eSports discusssion not 'Is Starcraft 2 good' discussion. | ||
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Woosung
65 Posts
On October 26 2010 08:25 LegendaryZ wrote: Just about every major game release starts off with a large number of players. The test for Starcraft 2 is really gonig to come down to its longevity as an eSport. Over a decade after its release, Brood War continues to be played at a professional level and has an eSports infrastructure unlike any other in the world. If Starcraft 2 can match this legacy and continue to be successful after a decade, I'll honestly be impressed because only a small handful of games last anywhere near that long. Honestly, I don't think Blizzard will be interested in contributing money for tournaments in 5-10 years time. As soon as the game sales stall, I think they'll stop supporting the SC2 esports scene, since they won't earn any extra money by then. | ||
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Vortok
United States830 Posts
On October 26 2010 08:18 ricerocket wrote: Except that for a community of both players and fans that seemed to have been built up through a decade, half of them already switched to SC2 within less than half a year of the game coming out. Gee, what a failure of a game. SC2 isn't a failure, though with the number of blind fanboy naysayers I can see how you could get the impression that I was implying that. It's a fairly good game that has a lot of potential. Due to planned expansions it also has several years to iron out all the kinks, since even if interest wanes an expansion will rekindle that interest for many people. Currently, I don't believe (personal opinion) it is better than BW. Could it be in the future? Nobody knows for sure, but it has potential and time to grow, just like ZvZ is slowly becoming more than pure baneling/zergling wars. SC2 should beat BW on its own merits. I'm certain that if SC2 gets to a point that it actually is more balanced, fun, and entertaining on a wide scale than BW a lot of people won't have a problem with that outcome. If it becomes a better game, it's simply a better game. Trying to win by backstabbing and putting down the competition (thus sayeth the wild speculation about the current situation) is what politicians do as evidenced but almost any campaign commercial ever. | ||
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Grend
1600 Posts
Seriously what is this shit | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
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Chriamon
United States886 Posts
On October 26 2010 09:56 infinity2k9 wrote: [...] Also there's no monopoly. Start your own KeSPA, start everything up if you like. But do not like GOM did, expect KeSPA paid and sponsored players to play in your events. Why should they? They are under contract, i'm surprised they were allowed for any GOM leagues and in the end it was the teams and not KeSPA who repeatedly pulled players out until it was nothing. [...] You say theres no monopoly, and then you go on to describe a monopoly... KeSPA obviously has a monopoly, you cannot start your own "KeSPA," there are no players to contract. | ||
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