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On October 25 2010 12:20 zenMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 12:15 Vedic wrote:On October 25 2010 10:54 dybydx wrote:
if they are suing in the Korean courts, i m pretty sure Blizz will lose, cause even in USA, their charges looked weak. They've already won cases like this in the USA, and are almost certain to win in Korea. Except this time they're going against the Korean government on Korean soil. Good Luck.
This doesn't matter. IP is a part of international law. All UN body members have agreed to a set of standards when it comes to copyright. Blizzard stopping people from hosting tournaments probably is not possible, but preventing it from being broadcasted is well within their reach. I don't think blizzard intends to shut down sc1, but just make sure that gretech is the one in charge of handing out subliscences, not kespa.
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Dude don't worry guys. There will probably be an underground BW scene. Like I can imagine a bunch of up and comers sitting in a dark basement having a tournament which tons of people are watching online. The cops would probably come and try to bust the tournament like in the movies and all the players will have to run away. It's gonna be awesome.
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On October 25 2010 14:57 darmousseh wrote:
I don't think blizzard intends to shut down sc1, but just make sure that gretech is the one in charge of handing out subliscences, not kespa.
Effectively shutting down sc1. GSL monopoly and forcing the big names to play SC2 is exactly what blizz/gretech want.
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On October 25 2010 11:59 Nitan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 23:56 mustaju wrote:On October 24 2010 23:46 Nitan wrote:On October 24 2010 17:30 mustaju wrote:On October 24 2010 17:18 Nitan wrote:On October 24 2010 17:04 Ryo wrote:On October 24 2010 15:02 gozima wrote:
The popularity of BW in Korea is stifling sales of SC2 there. Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about e-sports, they make money by selling games, not hosting tournaments.
They probably saw what Boxer in GSL did to spur interest in SC2 in Korea, and decided that getting Flash, JD, and crew to switch over to SC2 asap was in their best interest. Pretty much sums up Activision-Blizzard. Pretty much sums up capitalism. Doing something well and doing something badly can both be attributed to capitalism. I understand you are trying to be cynical, but this is one of the worst ways this could be resolved and they willingly chose to do it. Might have been a long term disaster, which at least I don't know. The imminent effects can be seen here in this thread, and most of us were huge Blizzard fans. What does it have to do with cynicism? The free market drives companies to seek every advantage they can. It is cynical, because bad business moves which are unethical and damage your own business are bad from a capitalist standpoint. The unethical part here is synonymous with the damaging the business part here, not because unethical behaviour is frowned upon in general. And in the long term, antagonism from major E-sports supporters and of the only E-sports industry in the world is NOT good for business. What is unethical about it? Blizzard is trying to make rather vague laws work for it. No doubt MBC is trying to do the same thing. Someone has to do it eventually or else the laws will stay vague. As for damaging their business...maybe. Still, Blizzard can hardly just sit there, see bad numbers in Korea, and do nothing. Capitalism pushes them forward. It is unethical to use aggressive, violent means in order to create artificial scarcity of non-scarce ends!
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On October 25 2010 15:53 madnessman wrote:
Dude don't worry guys. There will probably be an underground BW scene. Like I can imagine a bunch of up and comers sitting in a dark basement having a tournament which tons of people are watching online. The cops would probably come and try to bust the tournament like in the movies and all the players will have to run away. It's gonna be awesome.
LOLOLOL
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On October 25 2010 16:21 randomKo_Orean wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 20:14 AyJay wrote:Go go blizzard! BEST company ever :D <3 + Show Spoiler +I wonder how many people got pissed off by this post
On serious note: people don't give Blizzard enough credit for their work Why haven't this fuckface banned yet? User was temp banned for this post.
I mean cmon guys, yeah his post was out of line here, but this guy gets only warning after 3 trollposts in the same topic?
Yeah.. /rant
+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2010 18:25 AyJay wrote:
Atleast we got Mlg/IEM lol On October 24 2010 00:02 AyJay wrote:
everyone in this thread thinks their so clever it's not even funny
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On October 25 2010 08:04 2WeaK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 07:33 Husmusen wrote:
Sure blizzard created starcraft but had nothing to do with the pro scene and how it got so big I'd be willing to say that the balance changes probably played a big role in the development of eSports... Assuming the balance wouldn't have been as tight as it is since ... 1.8(?) do you think it would still be as popular as it is right now?
When was last balance patch? 2001?
On October 25 2010 08:42 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2010 09:53 BigBadSkathe wrote:On October 23 2010 09:46 syllogism wrote:On October 23 2010 09:44 teamsolid wrote:
What are the Korean netizen reactions? On PlayXP they seem to be hoping that Kespa dies I feel like this is the general consensus even on TL among people who don't just blindly hate Blizzard because they're owned by Activision or w/e. If this lawsuit leads to the downfall of KeSPA I'm all for it. BW can and will survive without them. Every time a new detail comes out about KeSPA's actions it just makes them look less and less professional, and more and more like slime ball capitalists who could care less about the hard work that was put into making the game they make their living off of. Sure they did a lot for esports at a time when Korea needed a distraction, but a little humility would go a long way. Without Blizzard, BW wouldn't exist, and somehow they want to pretend they don't owe their livelihoods to that company. This, holy shit why is everyone jumping on the "we hate blizzard" bandwagon when KeSPA has been doing shit like forcing Proleague to continue after refusing to negotiate. The Koreans are sick and tired of KeSPA's immature actions, why is everyone here trying to enshrine KeSPA as if they can do no wrong? Every time I read one of these articles I think "How can KeSPA even get away with doing this shit?" and "wow, are they really..?"
Where did the 'refuse to negotiate' thing come from? Blizzard made a list of (ridiculous) demands and KeSPA decided not to agree. There was no more negotiations to have and they are willing to defend in court.
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what's with all these comments about "Blizzard wants to shut down BW"? what the hell does Blizzard stand to gain from pissing off the majority of e-sport audiences in Korea?
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On October 25 2010 09:23 clampOK wrote:
Very good news for the future of esports, even if it currently hinders SC1 as well as what KESPA has done for it. I will miss watching the games as well, but if IP rights of the game developer are not recognized now, then the future precedent will be that IP rights do not matter when it comes to broadcasting a game.
Now think about it, if game developers learn from this ordeal that they can not directly profit from marketing their own IP, given the current esports business model, why would any other game developers try to gear their games for competitive play? If this situation shows that short of micro transactions, developing an esports related title is not a good business decision for a game dev, esports will just fizzle and die, leaving the gaming industry looking at the casual gamers once again instead of the competitive.
Blizzard's got the juice now, and I hope they win against MBC even if it means the destruction of the sc1 scene in its path. We all love sc here at TL, but its safe to say we wouldn't have this passion without the esports/competitive side of it, so if we want any future ESPORTS, this move is integral.
my 2 cents
Forgot to edit this in my post but this is the most ignorant completely backwards post i've ever seen in relation to the situation. Give game developers full control over eSports: then you have non-sustainable tiny niche eSports like every other game except BW. Notice the difference between KeSPA and every other organization in the world? That it actually works, for 10 years? With salaries for players and everything else. If you want Blizzards take on things SC2 will be dead when the next big game comes unless they force the money into themselves to keep it going.
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what can mbc argue? I know what Blizz is going to say and they have strong case. But what can MBC do?
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On October 25 2010 17:48 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 09:23 clampOK wrote:
Very good news for the future of esports, even if it currently hinders SC1 as well as what KESPA has done for it. I will miss watching the games as well, but if IP rights of the game developer are not recognized now, then the future precedent will be that IP rights do not matter when it comes to broadcasting a game.
Now think about it, if game developers learn from this ordeal that they can not directly profit from marketing their own IP, given the current esports business model, why would any other game developers try to gear their games for competitive play? If this situation shows that short of micro transactions, developing an esports related title is not a good business decision for a game dev, esports will just fizzle and die, leaving the gaming industry looking at the casual gamers once again instead of the competitive.
Blizzard's got the juice now, and I hope they win against MBC even if it means the destruction of the sc1 scene in its path. We all love sc here at TL, but its safe to say we wouldn't have this passion without the esports/competitive side of it, so if we want any future ESPORTS, this move is integral.
my 2 cents Forgot to edit this in my post but this is the most ignorant completely backwards post i've ever seen in relation to the situation. Give game developers full control over eSports: then you have non-sustainable tiny niche eSports like every other game except BW. Notice the difference between KeSPA and every other organization in the world? That it actually works, for 10 years? With salaries for players and everything else. If you want Blizzards take on things SC2 will be dead when the next big game comes unless they force the money into themselves to keep it going.
are you really going to argue that Blizzard doesn't know how to run a successful and long-lasting business?
and you call other people "ignorant" and "backwards"?
lol?
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On October 25 2010 17:48 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 09:23 clampOK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Very good news for the future of esports, even if it currently hinders SC1 as well as what KESPA has done for it. I will miss watching the games as well, but if IP rights of the game developer are not recognized now, then the future precedent will be that IP rights do not matter when it comes to broadcasting a game.
Now think about it, if game developers learn from this ordeal that they can not directly profit from marketing their own IP, given the current esports business model, why would any other game developers try to gear their games for competitive play? If this situation shows that short of micro transactions, developing an esports related title is not a good business decision for a game dev, esports will just fizzle and die, leaving the gaming industry looking at the casual gamers once again instead of the competitive.
Blizzard's got the juice now, and I hope they win against MBC even if it means the destruction of the sc1 scene in its path. We all love sc here at TL, but its safe to say we wouldn't have this passion without the esports/competitive side of it, so if we want any future ESPORTS, this move is integral.
my 2 cents Forgot to edit this in my post but this is the most ignorant completely backwards post i've ever seen in relation to the situation. Give game developers full control over eSports: then you have non-sustainable tiny niche eSports like every other game except BW. Notice the difference between KeSPA and every other organization in the world? That it actually works, for 10 years? With salaries for players and everything else. If you want Blizzards take on things SC2 will be dead when the next big game comes unless they force the money into themselves to keep it going. Actually his post is spot-on, you're just ignoring what he's saying and writing your own. If companies can see revenue streams beyond the develop->sell model they will be inclined to pursue them. Develop->sell->broadcast rights model doesn't lend itself to high product volume, so you are more likely to see developers stick to titles that fit this model longer and more thoroughly.
Moreover, called KeSPA a success or failure at this point is moot, they are obviously a failure since they've attracted so much wrath from the IP owner. Moreover, how many times have we whaled on KeSPA for shit over the last few years? While things are decent, they are by no means angels. Right now eSports needs a body like KeSPA, but it also needs a player's union - KeSPA being both in one hurts so bad.
Either way, his point is spot on - there's no reason to develop a competitive title if there's no means to eek a profit from it. Naturally, competitive titles won't sell as well as casual ones; however, require more investment and follow through. If the developer can see a new stream of revenue through IP management, it can offset that cost burden and make supporting competitive titles over a long period of time a smart business venture.
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On October 24 2010 06:03 e4e5nf3 wrote:
I dont think this is a wise idea for Blizzard. They obviously want the current BW audience to transfer over to SC2, but by doing it this way they are just pissing off the people. Much better just to have a gradual, natural shift from one game to the other, even if it takes years.
Well, it is a wise idea for Blizzard. Look at it this way: people that have stayed with BW obviously think its a better game (both play-wise and spectator-wise). If they can shit on the whole BW e-sports scene in SK, then they are guaranteed to have some viewers and players make the switch. Although Blizzard made the game, and appears to have the law on its side, we have to remember that the lawsuit is going to be settled in SK and not in US and I sincerely hope that Blizzard gets raped in court so we can continue to have PL.
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On October 25 2010 09:39 Teddyman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 09:34 Woosung wrote:
So how come all the other competative computer games lacks companies whining about IP?
I don't see Valve moaning about where and when CS/TF2 is played, nor have I seen them claim the right to the replays/insight into the companies/having the final word about accepting every tournament etc.
To be honest, in all the years of games being televised/streamed and cups/tourneys/competitions being held, this is the first time a game developer wants to obstruct the free advertising they get from it.
I guess it's just because the average game developer company has more common sense than Activision Blizzard does. http://www.gotfrag.com/css/story/37397/You were saying?
Seriously though, who cares about CS:S, it's just as bad as SC2, if not worse. I was talking about CS1.6 obviously.
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On October 25 2010 17:52 ricerocket wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 17:48 infinity2k9 wrote:On October 25 2010 09:23 clampOK wrote:
Very good news for the future of esports, even if it currently hinders SC1 as well as what KESPA has done for it. I will miss watching the games as well, but if IP rights of the game developer are not recognized now, then the future precedent will be that IP rights do not matter when it comes to broadcasting a game.
Now think about it, if game developers learn from this ordeal that they can not directly profit from marketing their own IP, given the current esports business model, why would any other game developers try to gear their games for competitive play? If this situation shows that short of micro transactions, developing an esports related title is not a good business decision for a game dev, esports will just fizzle and die, leaving the gaming industry looking at the casual gamers once again instead of the competitive.
Blizzard's got the juice now, and I hope they win against MBC even if it means the destruction of the sc1 scene in its path. We all love sc here at TL, but its safe to say we wouldn't have this passion without the esports/competitive side of it, so if we want any future ESPORTS, this move is integral.
my 2 cents Forgot to edit this in my post but this is the most ignorant completely backwards post i've ever seen in relation to the situation. Give game developers full control over eSports: then you have non-sustainable tiny niche eSports like every other game except BW. Notice the difference between KeSPA and every other organization in the world? That it actually works, for 10 years? With salaries for players and everything else. If you want Blizzards take on things SC2 will be dead when the next big game comes unless they force the money into themselves to keep it going. are you really going to argue that Blizzard doesn't know how to run a successful and long-lasting business? and you call other people "ignorant" and "backwards"? lol?
No. I think the argument is that Blizzard can't run decent tournaments.
On October 25 2010 18:14 sk` wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 17:48 infinity2k9 wrote:On October 25 2010 09:23 clampOK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Very good news for the future of esports, even if it currently hinders SC1 as well as what KESPA has done for it. I will miss watching the games as well, but if IP rights of the game developer are not recognized now, then the future precedent will be that IP rights do not matter when it comes to broadcasting a game.
Now think about it, if game developers learn from this ordeal that they can not directly profit from marketing their own IP, given the current esports business model, why would any other game developers try to gear their games for competitive play? If this situation shows that short of micro transactions, developing an esports related title is not a good business decision for a game dev, esports will just fizzle and die, leaving the gaming industry looking at the casual gamers once again instead of the competitive.
Blizzard's got the juice now, and I hope they win against MBC even if it means the destruction of the sc1 scene in its path. We all love sc here at TL, but its safe to say we wouldn't have this passion without the esports/competitive side of it, so if we want any future ESPORTS, this move is integral.
my 2 cents Forgot to edit this in my post but this is the most ignorant completely backwards post i've ever seen in relation to the situation. Give game developers full control over eSports: then you have non-sustainable tiny niche eSports like every other game except BW. Notice the difference between KeSPA and every other organization in the world? That it actually works, for 10 years? With salaries for players and everything else. If you want Blizzards take on things SC2 will be dead when the next big game comes unless they force the money into themselves to keep it going. Actually his post is spot-on, you're just ignoring what he's saying and writing your own. If companies can see revenue streams beyond the develop->sell model they will be inclined to pursue them. Develop->sell->broadcast rights model doesn't lend itself to high product volume, so you are more likely to see developers stick to titles that fit this model longer and more thoroughly. Moreover, called KeSPA a success or failure at this point is moot, they are obviously a failure since they've attracted so much wrath from the IP owner. Moreover, how many times have we whaled on KeSPA for shit over the last few years? While things are decent, they are by no means angels. Right now eSports needs a body like KeSPA, but it also needs a player's union - KeSPA being both in one hurts so bad. Either way, his point is spot on - there's no reason to develop a competitive title if there's no means to eek a profit from it. Naturally, competitive titles won't sell as well as casual ones; however, require more investment and follow through. If the developer can see a new stream of revenue through IP management, it can offset that cost burden and make supporting competitive titles over a long period of time a smart business venture.
I don't think so. The poster's argument is based on the assumption that without the developers controlling their game in terms of the e-sports industry, "e-sports fizzles and dies."
He's assuming that we're stuck with watching "casual gamers" in a world where businesses don't have access to their IP rights, but that's impurically denied. We've watched Korean BW all these years without Blizzard intervention, proving that e-sports doesn't die without the gaming company that's running it.
Blizzard has had very little linkage with Korea's successful Starcraft programs...if at all any links.
And the argument that competitive titles don't sell as well...are you saying like...competitive games or just competitive in terms of popularity.
Because I'll argue that a lot of times, we buy games that are fun, and not "competitive".
But once again, I'll reiterate, the argument isn't whether or not the decision is the right thing to do. The argument is that Blizzard has never cared about copyrights in the past. And the recent introduction of SC2 as an e-sport inherently makes Blizzard look they're trying to stuff SC2 into the picture.
Which just sounds wrong.
On October 25 2010 18:59 craz3d wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 06:03 e4e5nf3 wrote:
I dont think this is a wise idea for Blizzard. They obviously want the current BW audience to transfer over to SC2, but by doing it this way they are just pissing off the people. Much better just to have a gradual, natural shift from one game to the other, even if it takes years. Well, it is a wise idea for Blizzard. Look at it this way: people that have stayed with BW obviously think its a better game (both play-wise and spectator-wise). If they can shit on the whole BW e-sports scene in SK, then they are guaranteed to have some viewers and players make the switch. Although Blizzard made the game, and appears to have the law on its side, we have to remember that the lawsuit is going to be settled in SK and not in US and I sincerely hope that Blizzard gets raped in court so we can continue to have PL.
So you're argument is that it's good because Blizzard gets to disallow what a lot of people on TL have loved for years and force them through channels that they don't want to watch?
That's a wise idea?
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Yeah, This can't get any worse. This is simply Activision shutting down Korea.
Why have so much hate man?
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 25 2010 15:53 madnessman wrote:
Dude don't worry guys. There will probably be an underground BW scene. Like I can imagine a bunch of up and comers sitting in a dark basement having a tournament which tons of people are watching online. The cops would probably come and try to bust the tournament like in the movies and all the players will have to run away. It's gonna be awesome.
Ah hah that's awesome and nearly made me hope of Blizzard winning the trial. :p
But no way it's gonna be that wonderful if Blizzard wins.
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On October 25 2010 21:00 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 17:52 ricerocket wrote:On October 25 2010 17:48 infinity2k9 wrote:On October 25 2010 09:23 clampOK wrote:
Very good news for the future of esports, even if it currently hinders SC1 as well as what KESPA has done for it. I will miss watching the games as well, but if IP rights of the game developer are not recognized now, then the future precedent will be that IP rights do not matter when it comes to broadcasting a game.
Now think about it, if game developers learn from this ordeal that they can not directly profit from marketing their own IP, given the current esports business model, why would any other game developers try to gear their games for competitive play? If this situation shows that short of micro transactions, developing an esports related title is not a good business decision for a game dev, esports will just fizzle and die, leaving the gaming industry looking at the casual gamers once again instead of the competitive.
Blizzard's got the juice now, and I hope they win against MBC even if it means the destruction of the sc1 scene in its path. We all love sc here at TL, but its safe to say we wouldn't have this passion without the esports/competitive side of it, so if we want any future ESPORTS, this move is integral.
my 2 cents Forgot to edit this in my post but this is the most ignorant completely backwards post i've ever seen in relation to the situation. Give game developers full control over eSports: then you have non-sustainable tiny niche eSports like every other game except BW. Notice the difference between KeSPA and every other organization in the world? That it actually works, for 10 years? With salaries for players and everything else. If you want Blizzards take on things SC2 will be dead when the next big game comes unless they force the money into themselves to keep it going. are you really going to argue that Blizzard doesn't know how to run a successful and long-lasting business? and you call other people "ignorant" and "backwards"? lol? No. I think the argument is that Blizzard can't run decent tournaments.
No. I think the argument is that KeSPA paid salaries and found sponsorships. I suppose Blizzard employees must work for free. What do you think?
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EPT
