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2WeaK
Canada550 Posts
On October 25 2010 07:33 Husmusen wrote: Sure blizzard created starcraft but had nothing to do with the pro scene and how it got so big I'd be willing to say that the balance changes probably played a big role in the development of eSports... Assuming the balance wouldn't have been as tight as it is since ... 1.8(?) do you think it would still be as popular as it is right now? | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On October 23 2010 09:53 BigBadSkathe wrote: I feel like this is the general consensus even on TL among people who don't just blindly hate Blizzard because they're owned by Activision or w/e. If this lawsuit leads to the downfall of KeSPA I'm all for it. BW can and will survive without them. Every time a new detail comes out about KeSPA's actions it just makes them look less and less professional, and more and more like slime ball capitalists who could care less about the hard work that was put into making the game they make their living off of. Sure they did a lot for esports at a time when Korea needed a distraction, but a little humility would go a long way. Without Blizzard, BW wouldn't exist, and somehow they want to pretend they don't owe their livelihoods to that company. This, holy shit why is everyone jumping on the "we hate blizzard" bandwagon when KeSPA has been doing shit like forcing Proleague to continue after refusing to negotiate. The Koreans are sick and tired of KeSPA's immature actions, why is everyone here trying to enshrine KeSPA as if they can do no wrong? Every time I read one of these articles I think "How can KeSPA even get away with doing this shit?" and "wow, are they really..?" | ||
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zenMaster
Canada761 Posts
On October 25 2010 08:42 sylverfyre wrote: This, holy shit why is everyone jumping on the "we hate blizzard" bandwagon when KeSPA has been doing shit like forcing Proleague to continue after refusing to negotiate. The Koreans are sick and tired of KeSPA's immature actions, why is everyone here trying to enshrine KeSPA as if they can do no wrong? Every time I read one of these articles I think "How can KeSPA even get away with doing this shit?" and "wow, are they really..?" Holy shit why is everyone jumping on the "we hate kespa" bandwagon when Blizzard has been trying to stop the BW scene after SC2 is released. The foreign fans are sick and tired of Blizzard's capitalist actions, why is everyone here trying to enshrine Blizzard as if they're doing what is best for E-Sports? Every time I read one of these articles I think "How can Blizzard even get away with outright lying to everybody?" and "wow, did they really said they don't have the resources to help SC1?" | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On October 25 2010 08:42 sylverfyre wrote: This, holy shit why is everyone jumping on the "we hate blizzard" bandwagon when KeSPA has been doing shit like forcing Proleague to continue after refusing to negotiate. The Koreans are sick and tired of KeSPA's immature actions, why is everyone here trying to enshrine KeSPA as if they can do no wrong? Every time I read one of these articles I think "How can KeSPA even get away with doing this shit?" and "wow, are they really..?" But the argument isn't about hating Blizzard or hating KeSPA. It's about how Blizzard has never had a strong reaction to the BW proscene until now, when Starcraft 2 is jettisoning off as a legitimate e-sport. It just makes it look like Blizzard is trying to stuff SC2 into the spotlight. For Starcraft 2 that's fine because it's had more viewers than BW has had in a long time. To be honest...Blizzard looks like a dick.  | ||
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clampOK
United States17 Posts
Now think about it, if game developers learn from this ordeal that they can not directly profit from marketing their own IP, given the current esports business model, why would any other game developers try to gear their games for competitive play? If this situation shows that short of micro transactions, developing an esports related title is not a good business decision for a game dev, esports will just fizzle and die, leaving the gaming industry looking at the casual gamers once again instead of the competitive. Blizzard's got the juice now, and I hope they win against MBC even if it means the destruction of the sc1 scene in its path. We all love sc here at TL, but its safe to say we wouldn't have this passion without the esports/competitive side of it, so if we want any future ESPORTS, this move is integral. my 2 cents | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On October 25 2010 09:23 clampOK wrote: Very good news for the future of esports, even if it currently hinders SC1 as well as what KESPA has done for it. I will miss watching the games as well, but if IP rights of the game developer are not recognized now, then the future precedent will be that IP rights do not matter when it comes to broadcasting a game. Now think about it, if game developers learn from this ordeal that they can not directly profit from marketing their own IP, given the current esports business model, why would any other game developers try to gear their games for competitive play? If this situation shows that short of micro transactions, developing an esports related title is not a good business decision for a game dev, esports will just fizzle and die, leaving the gaming industry looking at the casual gamers once again instead of the competitive. Blizzard's got the juice now, and I hope they win against MBC even if it means the destruction of the sc1 scene in its path. We all love sc here at TL, but its safe to say we wouldn't have this passion without the esports/competitive side of it, so if we want any future ESPORTS, this move is integral. my 2 cents They would do it because it has a chance to sell more copies? I mean most game developers don't care about esports, they would rather profit from a good casual friendly product.... But that's not cause there is no incentive, it's cause it's much harder to develop a game that is good for an advanced level of competition. Also on the flipside if your post, if blizzard seizes total control over their products in esports it will basically shut down the extremely competitive aspect of esports, and turn it into their casual vision of esports. Do you think blizzard would come close to running leagues like BW has in korea? | ||
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Woosung
65 Posts
I don't see Valve moaning about where and when CS/TF2 is played, nor have I seen them claim the right to the replays/insight into the companies/having the final word about accepting every tournament etc. To be honest, in all the years of games being televised/streamed and cups/tourneys/competitions being held, this is the first time a game developer wants to obstruct the free advertising they get from it. I guess it's just because the average game developer company has more common sense than Activision Blizzard does. | ||
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Teddyman
Finland362 Posts
On October 25 2010 09:34 Woosung wrote: So how come all the other competative computer games lacks companies whining about IP? I don't see Valve moaning about where and when CS/TF2 is played, nor have I seen them claim the right to the replays/insight into the companies/having the final word about accepting every tournament etc. To be honest, in all the years of games being televised/streamed and cups/tourneys/competitions being held, this is the first time a game developer wants to obstruct the free advertising they get from it. I guess it's just because the average game developer company has more common sense than Activision Blizzard does. http://www.gotfrag.com/css/story/37397/ You were saying? | ||
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
On October 25 2010 09:31 robertdinh wrote: They would do it because it has a chance to sell more copies? I mean most game developers don't care about esports, they would rather profit from a good casual friendly product.... But that's not cause there is no incentive, it's cause it's much harder to develop a game that is good for an advanced level of competition. Also on the flipside if your post, if blizzard seizes total control over their products in esports it will basically shut down the extremely competitive aspect of esports, and turn it into their casual vision of esports. Do you think blizzard would come close to running leagues like BW has in korea? Who are you comparing Blizzard to...? Are you talking about gomTV? Kinda confusing. | ||
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Neo7
United States922 Posts
What people don't realize is that both companies are really bad at competitive market. Both want it all and won't stop at anything for it. KeSPA: We've been in charge for a long time and know what we're doing therefore we know what the audience wants. We've managed this before so get out and leave the tournaments to professionals. Blizzard: We're the creators of the game and now we want to broadcast our games ourselves. We gave a license to GomTV to act as the professionals and they've done just fine. Our games, our rules, we control everything as we see fit. In KeSPA's case, they're extremely immature and will do stunts that hurt both players and audience just to protest against Blizzard setting foot in their territory (remember how GomTV used to be up and running and now it's dead because KeSPA didn't want their players in the tournament)? They really need to stop with their "hero role" becuase they're far from being the hero in E-Sports. I doubt they even know what their audience wants. In Blizzard's case, they're just out for some much control that it's alarming. Some could say that the players are contracted by Blizzard and get paid accordingly through their teams (not sure how progame teams fund themselves or how their sponsers work or what sponsers they have). So in essence, it's not really much different. KeSPA is just making the deal bigger than it is because if Blizzard doesn't have total control, KeSPA still does. I can see the right to audit can be scary from one business to another as they could just roflstomp them and take everything. Blizzard needs to be less harsh so that the TV stations and the organization don't die trying to run it legally while KeSPA simply needs to manner up. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
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HunterX11
United States1048 Posts
On October 25 2010 09:23 clampOK wrote: Now think about it, if game developers learn from this ordeal that they can not directly profit from marketing their own IP, given the current esports business model, why would any other game developers try to gear their games for competitive play? If this situation shows that short of micro transactions, developing an esports related title is not a good business decision for a game dev, esports will just fizzle and die, leaving the gaming industry looking at the casual gamers once again instead of the competitive. Having a game played professionally is great (and free) advertising for the game. | ||
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Nitan
United States3401 Posts
On October 24 2010 23:56 mustaju wrote: It is cynical, because bad business moves which are unethical and damage your own business are bad from a capitalist standpoint. The unethical part here is synonymous with the damaging the business part here, not because unethical behaviour is frowned upon in general. And in the long term, antagonism from major E-sports supporters and of the only E-sports industry in the world is NOT good for business. What is unethical about it? Blizzard is trying to make rather vague laws work for it. No doubt MBC is trying to do the same thing. Someone has to do it eventually or else the laws will stay vague. As for damaging their business...maybe. Still, Blizzard can hardly just sit there, see bad numbers in Korea, and do nothing. Capitalism pushes them forward. | ||
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Vedic
United States582 Posts
On October 25 2010 10:54 dybydx wrote: if they are suing in the Korean courts, i m pretty sure Blizz will lose, cause even in USA, their charges looked weak. They've already won cases like this in the USA, and are almost certain to win in Korea. | ||
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zenMaster
Canada761 Posts
On October 25 2010 12:15 Vedic wrote: They've already won cases like this in the USA, and are almost certain to win in Korea. Except this time they're going against the Korean government on Korean soil. Good Luck. | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On October 25 2010 12:15 Vedic wrote: They've already won cases like this in the USA, and are almost certain to win in Korea. Source please? Because slight variations in circumstance could cause a different outcome. I seem to recall something like that with 2 supreme court cases. | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
On October 25 2010 13:08 d(O.o)a wrote: If anything, blizzard should be thanking them for making starcraft as huge as it is. If anything, KeSPA should be thanking them for making starcraft at all. See what I did there? It goes both ways - There is no easy solution to this issue - IP rights are going to be important with the future of esports, and having companies that will promote your games will be important as well. There is no point in taking sides. Not having progames sucks - however making Esports functional, practical, profitable, and having an incentive for companies, sponsors, and game makers will be important in the spread beyond korea of it. Esports hardly happens naturally, particularly not in the west. The first step will be setting up the functionality of IP rights. | ||
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Weedk
United States507 Posts
On October 25 2010 07:31 rasers wrote: yup blizzard created Starcraft and I love BLIZZARD for that. but now we have Activision Blizzard and well i Hate them ! and mb some Nerdy BW kid will rage and bomb down the blizzard studios. User was warned for this post As fun as that seems and as close as it is to me, I can't due to legal reasons. Not to mention it would probably hurt our PR. ): Gogo MBC! | ||
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