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Croatia9504 Posts
On October 13 2010 05:21 MoriyaGXP wrote:SC2 will be the new main e-sport  everyone is jumping ship cause of the money. BW will die... Blizzard has successfully accomplished according to their future plan LOL You mind sharing lottery numbers with us as well while you're at it?
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On October 13 2010 05:24 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 05:16 konadora wrote: i give up trying to explain us BW fans' stand because some people are just too thick-skulled and i'd probably get banned. With all due respect, sir, to me, an opinonless observer (who loves SC but knows that it's going to die soon anyway, every major evolution starts with a collapse of the old), you are the one being thick-skulled, trying to keep BW alive with your comments on these forums. The logic behind that, I do not understand. There are always people who deny the new, the thing that will become norm, and I see you exactly as that, trying to pull any argument to feel good about winning an internet argument. The paraolympics picture comes to my mind.
Ummm...
On October 13 2010 04:48 matjlav wrote: I've already explained that I won't be that upset if SC2 turns out better than BW and has a thriving proscene, even if BW dies in that process. What's upsetting is that BW may be forced out by Blizzard's bullshit.
On October 13 2010 04:49 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 04:48 matjlav wrote:If SC2 needs this much effort and bullying to get off the ground, then it's hardly good news for you. Lol, get off your high horse.
On October 13 2010 04:53 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 04:48 matjlav wrote: I've already explained that I won't be that upset if SC2 turns out better than BW and has a thriving proscene, even if BW dies in that process. What's upsetting is that BW may be forced out by Blizzard's bullshit. Learn to read instead of making stupid assumptions.
On October 13 2010 05:07 TOloseGT wrote: I'm done talking to you extremist fans.
If that isn't an example of being thick-skulled, I don't know what is...
Apologies for going off-topic, but it's really frustrating that my arguments and arguments of other BW fans keep getting completely mischaracterized. I feel like I have to say something.
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To be fair, it's kind of shameful how hostile some of the BW veterans are to 'SC2 fans'.
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
On October 13 2010 05:24 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 05:16 konadora wrote: i give up trying to explain us BW fans' stand because some people are just too thick-skulled and i'd probably get banned. With all due respect, sir, to me, an opinonless observer (who loves SC but knows that it's going to die soon anyway, every major evolution starts with a collapse of the old), you are the one being thick-skulled, trying to keep BW alive with your comments on these forums. The logic behind that, I do not understand. There are always people who deny the new, the thing that will become norm, and I see you exactly as that, trying to pull any argument to feel good about winning an internet argument. The paraolympics picture comes to my mind. oh. my. GOD.
why is it that you guys cant see our points? what we're angry is NOT about sc2 replacing bw as "the better esports game", but about how us BW fans arent given an opportunity to stick to what we like. as people mentioned in the other thread, if BW died a natural death then i wouldnt give that much a thought either, but here, blizzard is strangling the BW scene to death. THAT is what i am so pissed about.
and although i still think sc2 isnt a good a game as BW, i also believe given time, it too can develop into a good game.
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I bet Blizzard held BoxeR up to a gun point and told him flat that if he didnt play SC2 they would kill his family, starting with his mother being decapitated right in front of him.
Right? Becuase, whether you know it or not that is how many of you sound RIGHT NOW, absolutely crazy, gone from reality that all this is some sort of huge conspiracy and how Blizzard has a entire team of people with 200 million dollars and only mission is to "Kill Brood War Nao!"?
The reality of the situation is that BW popularity has been wanning and going south the last couple of years, the "golden days" are over, and have been over. Ratings and viewership for BW show this.
Does this mean that you have to play Starcraft 2? Hell no, you dont even need to touch it with a 10 foot pole, but you need to lay of the bashing becuase alot of people on this very site, alot of people who were once your idols and heroes made the transition becuase they liked the game. They didnt switch to Warcraft 3, but they did for SC2, that says that perhaps SC2 dosent exactly "suck!" too much.
Lay off the SC2 vs BW, because you need someone or something to blame, had SC2 not existed BW would be in a similar if not the same situation it is now.
SC2 is a place, after only 2 months where Brood War and Warcraft 3 could only dream off, so many people are interested in it, so many tournaments, streams and players have flocked to it, it is a event, a occassion, you can parcipate if you want, it dosent mean you dont love Brood War, it dosent mean jack shit, it just means that, at this point in time you would like to enjoy this new kid on the block and give it a honest chance.
Many of your peers, heroes and former legends have done just that and ended up enjoying a good game. If you hold the opinion that SC2 killed your favorite game then you will never enjoy it, no matter how good it becomes with expansions (just like BW did) and the only one losing is you.
I love Brood War, but this time belongs to Starcraft 2
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On October 13 2010 05:16 konadora wrote: i give up trying to explain us BW fans' stand because some people are just too thick-skulled and i'd probably get banned.
the fact remains that E-Sports can only grow so much with BW, have you ever seen so much attention been put to a single game for non-koreans demographics? the only time that korea has even made an effort to expand E-Sports beyond its borders is the GomTV classics tournament, we all know how that ended up because of a certain organisations selfish act?
SC2 is a great way to unite all sort gamers under one "roof" and be driven as the spear point of E-Sports development GLOBALLY, an unfortunate consequence that the old must make way for the new, but this is the chance for E-Sports to expand beyond korea.
i understand the pains that some might have with the changes, i myself have had great time and memories with the BW scene, but nothing last forever, changes is a part of life that we all must learn to adapt and accept, and BW have to brought down to encourage further development of E-Sports. it is painful i know, you guys should come to terms with reality, that there's nothing any of us here can do stop the changes, in the long run it will be for the greater good. so bear with it please.
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On October 13 2010 05:30 Jyvblamo wrote: To be fair, it's kind of shameful how hostile some of the BW veterans are to 'SC2 fans'.
oh my god, if you guys keep posting shit like this, i'm going to bang my head against the keyboard.
at this point, there are 3 options:
1) you are ignoring every post in this thread 2) you are fucking with me 3) you are just that insistent on sticking with your stereotypes of BW fans
which one is it? Let me know.
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On October 13 2010 05:27 dubRa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 05:11 VPC wrote:On October 13 2010 05:03 Ramiel wrote:This is bad news for all of e-sports. If this is the attitude that blizzard is showing with it's games, killing them off one by one- then what is going to happen when the other expansions come out? The balance is going to be absolutely horrid, yet everyone will switch. What happens when sc3 comes out? or wc4? or any other blizz title? doing this will never make video games a sport. Killing of games before they even reach a prime. All this is doing is making more money. What a sad way to see e-sports go.... with thunderous applause  HOW IS IT BAD FOR E-SPORTS? They havent killed shit off. Everyone playing SC2 is playing it because they like to fucking play it. It took 12 years for BW to finally end. And btw "sad way to see e-sports go? LOL What the hell are you talking about? BW was NEVER crowned "king of esports". You need to calm down. BW right now is still the most advanced esport in terms of sponsorship, leagues etc. Please check out the history on the database here on TL or liquipedia and compare it to any other game. I started following BW in 2007 and I really like SC2. I enjoy watching both and I really wish a healthy SC2 and BW scene could coexist.
Most advanced in the way of an e sport game? No its not. Look at Halo 3 or CS teams. Just because there was a huge fallowing in Korea doesn't mean that the rest of the world fallowed. Perhaps before you spout off again and tell me to check liquipedia, inform yourself about what is going on.
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Does this mean that CJ now owns shares in both Gretech and OGN? If CJ succeeded in taking control over Kespa this would mean all parties in the rights dispute would be effectively the same company.
edit: Ah, someone else commented on this a few pages ago
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I'm so sad.
If this leads to BW's death, then this is more heartbreaking than savior to me.
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move on, sc1 is dead. get over it.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 13 2010 05:34 Shizuru~ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 05:16 konadora wrote: i give up trying to explain us BW fans' stand because some people are just too thick-skulled and i'd probably get banned. the fact remains that E-Sports can only grow so much with BW, have you ever seen so much attention been put to a single game for non-koreans demographics? the only time that korea has even made an effort to expand E-Sports beyond its borders is the GomTV classics tournament, we all know how that ended up because of a certain organisations selfish act? SC2 is a great way to unite all sort gamers under one "roof" and be driven as the spear point of E-Sports development GLOBALLY, an unfortunate consequence that the old must make way for the new, but this is the chance for E-Sports to expand beyond korea. i understand the pains that some might have with the changes, i myself have had great time and memories with the BW scene, but nothing last forever, changes is a part of life that we all must learn to adapt and accept, and BW have to brought down to encourage further development of E-Sports. it is painful i know, you guys should come to terms with reality, that there's nothing any of us here can do stop the changes, in the long run it will be for the greater good. so bear with it please.
You just don't want me to have a keyboard anymore, do you?
What does any of this have to do with the fact that Blizzard is forcefully smothering the BW scene?
also: point of order, OSL Finals were just in Shanghai.
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On October 13 2010 05:26 Jyvblamo wrote: It speaks volumes when the man that built SCBW has already left for SC2. I think people give too much credit to Blizzard for peeling apart the BW scene, when its very core is crumbling from the inside.
To clarify, the way BW has evolved over the years into a fiercely competitive, cutthroat and unforgiving sport might have facilitated its rapid collapse.
A simple truth.
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On October 13 2010 05:31 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 05:24 OutlaW- wrote:On October 13 2010 05:16 konadora wrote: i give up trying to explain us BW fans' stand because some people are just too thick-skulled and i'd probably get banned. With all due respect, sir, to me, an opinonless observer (who loves SC but knows that it's going to die soon anyway, every major evolution starts with a collapse of the old), you are the one being thick-skulled, trying to keep BW alive with your comments on these forums. The logic behind that, I do not understand. There are always people who deny the new, the thing that will become norm, and I see you exactly as that, trying to pull any argument to feel good about winning an internet argument. The paraolympics picture comes to my mind. oh. my. GOD. why is it that you guys cant see our points? what we're angry is NOT about sc2 replacing bw as "the better esports game", but about how us BW fans arent given an opportunity to stick to what we like. as people mentioned in the other thread, if BW died a natural death then i wouldnt give that much a thought either, but here, blizzard is strangling the BW scene to death. THAT is what i am so pissed about. and although i still think sc2 isnt a good a game as BW, i also believe given time, it too can develop into a good game.
How can you say Blizzard have something to do with BW going down when from all the rumors in the OP we all can see that some Korean corporation is just trying to switch from BW to SC2?
All this hate between bw and sc2 fans is absolutely pointless and useless. The "bad guys" are not SC2 fans but corporations that want more money.
Players are just a bunch of kids (if you are in your late teens and early 20s you are a kid ) that want to make a living and you can't want them to stick to losing cause because you like that cause.
In the end there is only one thing that sums it up: Money talks...
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On October 13 2010 05:35 VPC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 05:27 dubRa wrote:On October 13 2010 05:11 VPC wrote:On October 13 2010 05:03 Ramiel wrote:This is bad news for all of e-sports. If this is the attitude that blizzard is showing with it's games, killing them off one by one- then what is going to happen when the other expansions come out? The balance is going to be absolutely horrid, yet everyone will switch. What happens when sc3 comes out? or wc4? or any other blizz title? doing this will never make video games a sport. Killing of games before they even reach a prime. All this is doing is making more money. What a sad way to see e-sports go.... with thunderous applause  HOW IS IT BAD FOR E-SPORTS? They havent killed shit off. Everyone playing SC2 is playing it because they like to fucking play it. It took 12 years for BW to finally end. And btw "sad way to see e-sports go? LOL What the hell are you talking about? BW was NEVER crowned "king of esports". You need to calm down. BW right now is still the most advanced esport in terms of sponsorship, leagues etc. Please check out the history on the database here on TL or liquipedia and compare it to any other game. I started following BW in 2007 and I really like SC2. I enjoy watching both and I really wish a healthy SC2 and BW scene could coexist. Most advanced in the way of an e sport game? No its not. Look at Halo 3 or CS teams. Just because there was a huge fallowing in Korea doesn't mean that the rest of the world fallowed. Perhaps before you spout off again and tell me to check liquipedia, inform yourself about what is going on.
Did you just say Halo 3 is more developed as an e-sport over bw? You said fallowed, I can't take you serious at all.
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On October 13 2010 05:35 VPC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 05:27 dubRa wrote:On October 13 2010 05:11 VPC wrote:On October 13 2010 05:03 Ramiel wrote:This is bad news for all of e-sports. If this is the attitude that blizzard is showing with it's games, killing them off one by one- then what is going to happen when the other expansions come out? The balance is going to be absolutely horrid, yet everyone will switch. What happens when sc3 comes out? or wc4? or any other blizz title? doing this will never make video games a sport. Killing of games before they even reach a prime. All this is doing is making more money. What a sad way to see e-sports go.... with thunderous applause  HOW IS IT BAD FOR E-SPORTS? They havent killed shit off. Everyone playing SC2 is playing it because they like to fucking play it. It took 12 years for BW to finally end. And btw "sad way to see e-sports go? LOL What the hell are you talking about? BW was NEVER crowned "king of esports". You need to calm down. BW right now is still the most advanced esport in terms of sponsorship, leagues etc. Please check out the history on the database here on TL or liquipedia and compare it to any other game. I started following BW in 2007 and I really like SC2. I enjoy watching both and I really wish a healthy SC2 and BW scene could coexist. Most advanced in the way of an e sport game? No its not. Look at Halo 3 or CS teams. Just because there was a huge fallowing in Korea doesn't mean that the rest of the world fallowed. Perhaps before you spout off again and tell me to check liquipedia, inform yourself about what is going on.
Yeah remember when 100,000 people went to watch a Halo 3 or CS final.
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On October 13 2010 05:38 kinray wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 05:31 konadora wrote:On October 13 2010 05:24 OutlaW- wrote:On October 13 2010 05:16 konadora wrote: i give up trying to explain us BW fans' stand because some people are just too thick-skulled and i'd probably get banned. With all due respect, sir, to me, an opinonless observer (who loves SC but knows that it's going to die soon anyway, every major evolution starts with a collapse of the old), you are the one being thick-skulled, trying to keep BW alive with your comments on these forums. The logic behind that, I do not understand. There are always people who deny the new, the thing that will become norm, and I see you exactly as that, trying to pull any argument to feel good about winning an internet argument. The paraolympics picture comes to my mind. oh. my. GOD. why is it that you guys cant see our points? what we're angry is NOT about sc2 replacing bw as "the better esports game", but about how us BW fans arent given an opportunity to stick to what we like. as people mentioned in the other thread, if BW died a natural death then i wouldnt give that much a thought either, but here, blizzard is strangling the BW scene to death. THAT is what i am so pissed about. and although i still think sc2 isnt a good a game as BW, i also believe given time, it too can develop into a good game. How can you say Blizzard have something to do with BW going down when from all the rumors in the OP we all can see that some Korean corporation is just trying to switch from BW to SC2? All this hate between bw and sc2 fans is absolutely pointless and useless. The "bad guys" are not SC2 fans but corporations that want more money. Players are just a bunch of kids (if you are in your late teens and early 20s you are a kid  ) that want to make a living and you can't want them to stick to losing cause because you like that cause. In the end there is only one thing that sums it up: Money talks...
All of this is pretty much the result of Blizzard's legal shit, though. If it weren't for that, there's no way that BW scene would be crumbling like this. As for your money argument, I'll direct you to a post by PoP:
On October 13 2010 03:30 PoP wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:18 Kenny wrote: This. Couldn't have said it better myself. It is natural as humans to be upset with change, but this too can grow into a wonderful and competitive game that we all come to love. Sure BW was amazing and will always be in our eyes, but its been 10 years guys...time to move on.
Thing is, the fans should decide this, not the money. (Korean) BW isn't dying because the korean fans want to watch SC2 all of a sudden. There were TONS of people showing up at every single live event in Korea last year. They still love the game and many foreigners still do, too. And it didn't become that way because whatever companies threw huge amounts of money and proclame their game the new greatest e-sport, it became that way because the game was loved by the players and by the fans and has been so for 10 years full of awesome stuff . TLDR: Money should go where the fans want to go, not the other way around. The way things seem to be occuring seems everything but natural, and that's really really sad.
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On October 13 2010 05:34 Shizuru~ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 05:16 konadora wrote: i give up trying to explain us BW fans' stand because some people are just too thick-skulled and i'd probably get banned. the fact remains that E-Sports can only grow so much with BW, have you ever seen so much attention been put to a single game for non-koreans demographics? the only time that korea has even made an effort to expand E-Sports beyond its borders is the GomTV classics tournament, we all know how that ended up because of a certain organisations selfish act? SC2 is a great way to unite all sort gamers under one "roof" and be driven as the spear point of E-Sports development GLOBALLY, an unfortunate consequence that the old must make way for the new, but this is the chance for E-Sports to expand beyond korea. i understand the pains that some might have with the changes, i myself have had great time and memories with the BW scene, but nothing last forever, changes is a part of life that we all must learn to adapt and accept, and BW have to brought down to encourage further development of E-Sports. it is painful i know, you guys should come to terms with reality, that there's nothing any of us here can do stop the changes, in the long run it will be for the greater good. so bear with it please.
Ah yes Blizzards wonderful vision for global eSports. A single tournament for 64 people solely based in Seoul, region locked Battle.net, no LAN. I'm really enjoying this 'development' of eSports.
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Many aspects of BW are dead already. The proscene is pretty much nonexistent outside of Korea (although many foreign fans still enjoy the proscene in Korea). With old players leaving and no new players arriving to the BW scene (not to mention all the coaches leaving), it's only a matter of time until professional BW as we know it comes to an end.
I don't think I'll miss it, TBH. They were good times, but my interest in BW dried up with the beta and later on the release of SC2. I'm still pissed off about certain aspects of SC2 (no LAN, no cross-realm play, etc)... but it's a better, more entertaining game, IMO.
Thank you, Starcraft: Brood Wars, for giving me good times and for giving us TeamLiquid.
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All good things must come to an end. BW had a great run. Can't wait to see what SC2 is capable of in the future
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