The Problem With Esports - Page 8

On October 01 2010 13:47 ffreakk wrote:
Im guessing you are also aware that top-level play is simply impossible without LAN latency?

In a game (BW) where timing windows and decision making are in a matter of less than a second, B.net-level ping will have too big of an effect on gameplay (50ms ping difference will be huge)..

That Blizzard does not support LAN shows how much they care to support high level gameplay. And as a fan, i am utterly disappointed.

On October 01 2010 16:03 Crt wrote:
This is E-sports, where computational engines and virtual reality matter. You can't relate SC1 to chess, because chess and any other non-E-sports don't rely on graphics enhancement, etc.

On October 01 2010 18:25 robertdinh wrote:


Yep, it's silly to watch people argue about how much blizz cares about esports when sc2 and WoW don't even have lan modes that give them lan ping.

And any true gamer knows how important latency is when you strive for perfection.

On October 01 2010 11:56 oYsteR wrote:
Broodwar is an 'esport': it is enjoyed by people who have never played BW. SC2 is a nice, it is enjoyed only by those who play/are in the know.

Broodwar in Korea is an incredibly fortuitous set of circumstances arising in South Korea and South Korea alone; I don't believe that the success of BW in Korea can be replicated around the world. SC2 is too pretty (in reality: unintelligible to uninitiated viewers therefore of no worth to 'oi polloi') and obviously, and unsurprisingly, unbalanced in comparison to BW.

The problem with E-sports in Western society is that no game has overcome the 'nerd factor', has not arrived at the correct time as BW did in Korea; does not have the same set of unchanging rules as a physical support such as soccer has; i.e. the players are in some way subject to the developers which greatly weakens the supposed strength of the players (an example of this malleability in esports is the nature of debates about whether flash is as good as boxer etc, although this is certainly comparable to soccer). However, e-sports have too many flaws and too much prejudice (in most countries, i can't claim to know about all) to succeed. I don't know. Does anyone think that future SC2 tournaments will draw 1m+ viewers? Is that too narrow a paramater for success for e-sports?

On October 02 2010 01:12 Velr wrote:
To break thru in the west. SC/BW is just to old/ugly.



I love watching SC/BW... but it's like watching some 70ies football game... GREAT game, but the quality kinda ruins it.

On October 02 2010 01:19 Diminotoor wrote:




Sorry but you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. To break through outside of Korea, its not BW that needs changing. Its E-Sports scene in general. If you exclude the Korean scene, pretty much all of E-Sports is one big as-of-right-now-hopeless unorganized clump. If SC:BW is to have a comeback, the E-Sports scene must be more established and "official". Graphics are certainly not the problem here (at least, not to an educated person).

On October 02 2010 01:19 Diminotoor wrote:


Sorry but you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. To break through outside of Korea, its not BW that needs changing. Its E-Sports scene in general. If you exclude the Korean scene, pretty much all of E-Sports is one big as-of-right-now-hopeless unorganized clump. If SC:BW is to have a comeback, the E-Sports scene must be more established and "official". Graphics are certainly not the problem here (at least, not to an educated person).

On October 02 2010 01:46 mimikami wrote:
[...]

The west pretty much has an anti-gaming culture, no esport could grow in the west. There is not a need to "break through" the west at all. They will never accept a video game as a sport.

[...]

On October 02 2010 01:46 mimikami wrote:

The west pretty much has an anti-gaming culture, no esport could grow in the west. There is not a need to "break through" the west at all. They will never accept a video game as a sport.

On September 30 2010 00:28 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
First I wanna say that BW has an amazing proscene in Korea and I hope it never dies. I think a lot of what you have to say is very valid.

That being said, BW has little to no proscene outside Korea, and it never will have one. This is because the sponsors look at it from an uninformed outsider perspective, see a 12 year old game with shitty graphics and are not impressed. They also think that a 12 year old game will not be popular, and they are right. There is a small, but very devoted core of people outside Korea following the proscene. Sponsors do like devoted followers, because they will tune in week after week, but they don't like small numbers.

Starcraft 2 has a chance of getting much larger then SC1 ever was in the US. Its new, and its shiny so lots of people are playing it. This leads to higher viewer numbers which makes sponsors more interested. More sponsors = bigger prize pools, bigger tournaments, and more advertising for the tournaments which in turn leads to more sponsors.

As for the comments about BW taking more skill, and SC2 being casual, I agree that entering SC2 is much less intimidating. The interface automates a lot of the things you had to do manually in SC1. Even so many people find multiplayer for SC2 very intimidating. I have heard plenty of people say they loved the campaign, and then went online got roflstomped and got turned off from multi-player. So while for someone who has played BW for the past 10 years yeah its a lot easier, but for your average person on the street its still rocket science. For esports I think having the game easier to get into is a good thing. It allows more people to play the game and understand it, and that makes watching it much more entertaining.

As for the pro level I don't think we are anywhere near the skillcap of SC2 yet and there are 2 more expansions to come, so anything could happen. I think this is one place where the "sc2 is a still a baby" comments is actually valid. The game is developing quite rapidly, and we really need to wait to see where it goes, but I know I am already amazed when I watch the finals of SC2 tourneys, and have seen some pretty big innovations in play and amazing micro and Im looking forward to see what is done in the coming years.

tl;dr SC2 has a better chance of making it in the west then BW for many reasons, and I hope BW keeps going strong along side SC2

On October 01 2010 20:39 Armathai wrote:


Thanks for pointing out the primary reason I haven't bought SC2 since beta ended.

Also no chat channels(although they announced this to come at least)...

On October 02 2010 00:47 Velr wrote:
For E-Sports to get big it first needs a game that draws in huge crowds.

SC/BW will not do this anymore, it just doesn't look good enough.


SC2 has a chance.


Once a game is really big, it could probably stay... But no game is that big yet.

On October 02 2010 02:39 ffreakk wrote:


I believe this is a fine point. If people who play games (gamers) are classified as "nerds" and looked down on by the majority. How is a sport that base on those very games s'posed to "breakthrough"? Amateurs wont have motivations to train up to be professionals if instead of being able to boast about their awesome gaming skills, its hide-it-or-be-laughed-at.

E-sport can and (hopefully) will grow in the East, what they need is to focus on truly good games, with balance and mechanics being the key instead of shiny pixels.

On October 01 2010 02:47 segfix wrote:


So you're saying SC2 sucks but it doesn't suck because it won't suck in a few years? Well, tell me when it stops sucking. Until then, I'll stick with nonsucky BW.

On October 01 2010 00:26 ooni wrote:

I seriously have tears in my eyes
even the 'ESPORTS is being sexy for your fans.' pic

Basketball or any other sports are very easy to learn but it is the skill ceiling that is high. BW is hard to learn and ceiling skill maybe higher due to importance of reaction speed. SC2 is better than BW in terms of introducing the game to new players. People who have commented on SC2 ceiling, well they don't know that how high the ceiling is. High level players are still winning tournaments and seen some great micros. Is it pretty look at? Yes.

Now, is it pretty to look at as a spectator sport? No. Because it 'feels' easy.
This is the problem is the learning curve. SC2 has the feeling (could be an illusion, don't know) that with a decent chunk time you could get better. With SC1, you reach a point where you go, even you think to yourself, Am I really getting better? (much like basketball or other sports). Then you look at the person next to you and realise they are better and it's possible. That's what makes a sport, a sport, looking at the very peak of current human ability, doing the impossible. So the question lies will SC2 ever reach that level? Will it makes someone say, WOW that's seems 'impossible' to do and they are doing it.

Only time will tell (not betting my one dollar on it though).