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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
Don't play or care about SC2, are you mad!? Go buy SC2 and play it, leave your nostalgic feelings behind and join the majority, you are not helping the community by not buying SC2. BW is never going to really die as long as there are people who want to play it, but that doesn't mean that you should deny yourself a chance to play the future best RTS. In time people will learn that you can't win at a high level by only cheesing or 1 base all ining and everything will be fine. | ||
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zenMaster
Canada761 Posts
On September 29 2010 14:52 rick-dmg wrote: So, to say people that want to expand, update, and move the eSport scene forward are somehow it's greatest enemies - is just a really short-sighted thing to say. The game has a brutal learning curve where you simply cannot compete unless you have been playing it for many years. IMO, that isn't as much "skill" anymore... and is more muscle memorization + repetitive gameplay. If I start playing today... there is ZERO chance I will ever beat players that have 10+ years of experience. Not because they are inherently smarter players, but because they have a huge experience advantage that would make ANY idiot play better than a new participant. Do you want pros that win simply based on an unfair experience-advantage, or based on the fact they can adapt and create new strategies in a fresh new game? Personally, I think the real skill comes from being able to adapt and learn something new from time to time. I think a refresh like SC2 gives the game a huge opportunity for growth, and resets at least some of the experience (obviously macro/micro/multi-tasking still plays a significant role). There is such a huge opportunity for eSports to actually materialize into something significant in the entire world. It's sad to see people cling to a game that clearly has no growth potential... and it's just plain frustrating to hear them proclaim that moving the scene forward is somehow a negative thing. Do you see how ridiculous this guy sounds when you replace 2 words? So, to say people that want to expand, update, and move the Sport scene forward are somehow it's greatest enemies - is just a really short-sighted thing to say. Baseball has a brutal learning curve where you simply cannot compete unless you have been playing it for many years. IMO, that isn't as much "skill" anymore... and is more muscle memorization + repetitive gameplay. If I start playing today... there is ZERO chance I will ever beat players that have 10+ years of experience. Not because they are inherently smarter players, but because they have a huge experience advantage that would make ANY idiot play better than a new participant. Do you want pros that win simply based on an unfair experience-advantage, or based on the fact they can adapt and create new strategies in a fresh new game? Personally, I think the real skill comes from being able to adapt and learn something new from time to time. I think a refresh like Baseball 2 with a rubber ball gives the game a huge opportunity for growth, and resets at least some of the experience (obviously macro/micro/multi-tasking still plays a significant role). On September 30 2010 07:40 Ksyper wrote: What's wrong with you people? Don't play or care about SC2, are you mad!? Go buy SC2 and play it, leave your nostalgic feelings behind and join the majority, you are not helping the community by not buying SC2. BW is never going to really die as long as there are people who want to play it, but that doesn't mean that you should deny yourself a chance to play the future best RTS. In time people will learn that you can't win at a high level by only cheesing or 1 base all ining and everything will be fine. Some people prefer not to be a Blizzard fanboy sheep and prefer to not pay $180 for a freaking video game. | ||
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Thunderfist
Poland159 Posts
Jeez, i'm so happy SC2 came out, at least something new is going on, not this same shit. It's time to refresh SC community with new game, new events and new strategies with new pros. | ||
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:51 zenMaster wrote: Do you see how ridiculous this guy sounds when you replace 2 words? So, to say people that want to expand, update, and move the Sport scene forward are somehow it's greatest enemies - is just a really short-sighted thing to say. Baseball has a brutal learning curve where you simply cannot compete unless you have been playing it for many years. IMO, that isn't as much "skill" anymore... and is more muscle memorization + repetitive gameplay. If I start playing today... there is ZERO chance I will ever beat players that have 10+ years of experience. Not because they are inherently smarter players, but because they have a huge experience advantage that would make ANY idiot play better than a new participant. Do you want pros that win simply based on an unfair experience-advantage, or based on the fact they can adapt and create new strategies in a fresh new game? Personally, I think the real skill comes from being able to adapt and learn something new from time to time. I think a refresh like Baseball 2 with a rubber ball gives the game a huge opportunity for growth, and resets at least some of the experience (obviously macro/micro/multi-tasking still plays a significant role). Some people prefer not to be a Blizzard fanboy sheep and prefer to not pay $180 for a freaking video game. Yeah sure, not being a blizzard fanboy and playing their game for 12 years :D. People like you are the reason E-sports still isn't as big as normal sports, no one can take people like you seriously. And pulling numbers out of your ass isn't an argument either, the game didn't come close to 180$, and anyway most games nowadays are expensive. | ||
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zenMaster
Canada761 Posts
On September 30 2010 08:02 Ksyper wrote: Yeah sure, not being a blizzard fanboy and playing their game for 12 years :D. People like you are the reason E-sports still isn't as big as normal sports, no one can take people like you seriously. And pulling numbers out of your ass isn't an argument either, the game didn't come close to 180$, and anyway most games nowadays are expensive. I'm a e-sports fanboy that watches every game PL/OSL/MSL has to offer. Guess how much your future "expansions" are going to cost. Games are expensive, maybe that's why i prefer to watch the magnificent art that is BW rather than paying up like mindless drones. | ||
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maybe
265 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:40 Ksyper wrote: What's wrong with you people? Don't play or care about SC2, are you mad!? Go buy SC2 and play it, leave your nostalgic feelings behind and join the majority, you are not helping the community by not buying SC2. BW is never going to really die as long as there are people who want to play it, but that doesn't mean that you should deny yourself a chance to play the future best RTS. In time people will learn that you can't win at a high level by only cheesing or 1 base all ining and everything will be fine. On September 30 2010 08:02 Ksyper wrote: Yeah sure, not being a blizzard fanboy and playing their game for 12 years :D. People like you are the reason E-sports still isn't as big as normal sports, no one can take people like you seriously. And pulling numbers out of your ass isn't an argument either, the game didn't come close to 180$, and anyway most games nowadays are expensive. dude just dont post anymore | ||
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
On September 30 2010 08:11 zenMaster wrote: I'm a e-sports fanboy that watches every game PL/OSL/MSL has to offer. Guess how much your future "expansions" are going to cost. Games are expensive, maybe that's why i prefer to watch the magnificent art that is BW rather than paying up like mindless drones. Calling people who buy SC2 "mindless drones" isn't really helping this discussion you know? Like it or not, people actually have fun playing SC2 over BW. | ||
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
Have fun with your superiority complex. | ||
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meathook
1289 Posts
On September 30 2010 08:55 Ksyper wrote: I'm not about to start a flame war with you close minded people who can't even provide an argument to support their claims. Have fun with your superiority complex. Jesus Christ.. how about READING THE FUCKING THREAD before posting in it?? Have fun with that vacuum inside that thing on your shoulders. join the majority And this. WTF? One should always attempt to be a part of "the majority" according to you? Oh, that's very interesting.. Good thing you're of no importance, because that would actually be scary. | ||
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rick-dmg
Canada36 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:30 meathook wrote: 1. Explain please how a game like chess, which in some instances does not even have graphics, is able to maintain a player base and audience 2000 years after its inception? Chess is all fine and good, but if anything it is on the decline. Not to mention - it can at least be modernized (played on iPhone/iPad/computer with new graphics) and survives well as a casual game. Comparing Chess and SC:BW is like apples to oranges... BW has lasted 10 years and is aging fast in terms of design/function/resolution/graphical-appeal (which, regardless if you care - certain audiences do care). Chess is timeless, and is visually updated on an ongoing basis. On September 30 2010 07:30 meathook wrote: 2. Your wails regarding the "experience imbalance" new players supposedly experience when undertaking BW is founded only by the fact that you're most likely a D- noob who never managed to win a single game, was too lazy to learn to be better and wrote it off on the belief that everyone else has played the game so long that it is simply impossible for someone new to beat someone who has been playing the game longer than they have. Are you actually going to claim that relative newcomers are dominating the scene? Pretty sure guys like Flash and Jaedong are still at the top... and have been for quite some time. Denying it is pointless. You can come up with some weak examples to the contrary, but they don't actually hold water. BW may continue to be played for several years to come, but it is a game on the decline. SC2 may fast track that, but it isn't the real reason. As much as you might enjoy BW, it has a shelf life. It's peak has come and gone... and it's been on the decline for a while. | ||
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rick-dmg
Canada36 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:51 zenMaster wrote:Do you see how ridiculous this guy sounds when you replace 2 words? ... baseball, blah blah The baseball comparison is so weak. First off, baseball is updated on a regular basis. We now watch it in HD, with better reporting, better coverage, better stat coverage, and new side-games like sports betting / fantasy sports, etc. They don't throw around an actual leather ball or some turkey neck (whatever the hell they used way back when). The game has clearly been updated and modernized in many significant ways. So bringing that up only supports my point. Things need to evolve... in both big and small ways. On September 30 2010 07:51 zenMaster wrote: Some people prefer not to be a Blizzard fanboy sheep and prefer to not pay $180 for a freaking video game. Since when did the game cost $180. Lemme guess, you are one of those cheapscates that tries to provide as biased information as possible. There will be two add-ons, so you add it all up... and assume it costs that just to play multiplayer (which it doesn't). If you want single-player... guess what, you are actually getting three games. Not worth it? Then don't buy the add-ons. The fact is... video gaming is simply one of the cheapest forms of entertainment available. Compare it next to almost anything else. For just $60 (which I paid for SC2) - I've already had probably 30 hours of great entertainment... and plan on having hundreds more. Can you say that about going to a movie theater, going out for dinner, going on a mini-vacation? Get over it... gaming is dirt cheap. So if money is the real problem... time for you to get off the computer and get a job. | ||
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meathook
1289 Posts
On September 30 2010 09:21 rick-dmg wrote: Chess is all fine and good, but if anything it is on the decline. Not to mention - it can at least be modernized (played on iPhone/iPad/computer with new graphics) and survives well as a casual game. Comparing Chess and SC:BW is like apples to oranges... BW has lasted 10 years and is aging fast in terms of design/function/resolution/graphical-appeal (which, regardless if you care - certain audiences do care). Chess is timeless, and is visually updated on an ongoing basis. Yeah, visually it may or may not be updated, but in fact this is just some cosmetics for faggots who care. Chess can be played with pen and paper, if needed. The point is that it's strength lies in it's gameplay, not in the way it looks or w/e. Same goes for SC. I bet you would consider enabling ppl to move more than one piece during a turn in a chess match "an improvement to an outdated game". Because this is what you've been saying. Are you actually going to claim that relative newcomers are dominating the scene? Pretty sure guys like Flash and Jaedong are still at the top... and have been for quite some time. Denying it is pointless. You can come up with some weak examples to the contrary, but they don't actually hold water. BW may continue to be played for several years to come, but it is a game on the decline. SC2 may fast track that, but it isn't the real reason. As much as you might enjoy BW, it has a shelf life. It's peak has come and gone... and it's been on the decline for a while. You really struggle with reading comprehension, don't you? The whole message was that newcomers can get good at the game if they put effort into becoming such. Also, those examples are hardly "weak", but you wouldn't know anyway. EDIT: And stop double posting. There is a fucking edit button. | ||
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rick-dmg
Canada36 Posts
On September 30 2010 08:11 zenMaster wrote: I'm a e-sports fanboy that watches every game PL/OSL/MSL has to offer. Guess how much your future "expansions" are going to cost. Games are expensive, maybe that's why i prefer to watch the magnificent art that is BW rather than paying up like mindless drones. Again, games are dirt cheap. Literally one of the cheapest forms of paid entertainment. Dinner out, going to the theater, taking a trip... I'd rather pay $60 for a video game and get literally hundreds of hours of entertainment. How can anybody actually complain about price. If you can't afford $60 for hundreds of hours of entertainment... you have a bigger problem than worrying about BW vs SC2. "Oh, but the expansion packs... such a money grab, blah blah" Don't buy them. You won't need them for multi-player, and if you actually want them for single-player - guess what... sometimes you have to pay for things you want. | ||
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rick-dmg
Canada36 Posts
On September 30 2010 09:36 meathook wrote: Yeah, visually it may or may not be updated, but in fact this is just some cosmetics for faggots who care. Chess can be played with pen and paper, if needed. The point is that it's strength lies in it's gameplay, not in the way it looks or w/e. Same goes for SC. I bet you would consider enabling ppl to move more than one piece during a turn in a chess match "an improvement to an outdated game". Because this is what you've been saying. It isn't just a visual update... and your whole "for faggots who care" line just goes to show you cant actually debate this stuff logically. Regardless of what you think of graphics... plenty of people do care. It affects the growth of the game, the audience size, and other aspects that, like it or not, affect prize pools and other significant factors that benefit a modern game. If you are just talking about BW surviving... that's great. If you think it's going to challenge SC2 on an on-going basis in the eSports community... sorry, it won't. Back to your point, Chess didn't just get a minor "visual" update. Even just 100 years ago... could you play online chess? Could you play it from a mobile phone anywhere/anytime? Could you challenge someone on the other side of the world to a quick game? Could you play it against a computer? The updates have been significant - wither you want to admit it or not. Just as SC2 has new broadcasting features, better visual quality, a modern interface, etc. No, I don't want to change chess... again, you bring up such obvious distractions that have nothing to do with what we are talking about. Signs that your argument is quickly losing steam. On September 30 2010 09:36 meathook wrote: You really struggle with reading comprehension, don't you? The whole message was that newcomers can get good at the game if they put effort into becoming such. Also, those examples are hardly "weak", but you wouldn't know anyway. Ahh, nothing like personal remarks to again signal you really can't debate things point for point. My statements stand. The real BW pros are players that have been playing forever. I wouldn't know? Apparently you can't actually bring up solid evidence/examples of relative newcomers dominating the scene or consistently beating long-time pros like Flash, Jaedong, stork, etc. That is how you actually have a debate... you bring up facts and point out flawless logic. Name calling and random distractions are pointless. | ||
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
even tho i dont write here often and shouldnt talk big now. i never saw a guy with 500+ comments "bashing" on BW xD how come?. and btw everyone who is saying something about graphic just stfu. ty | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On September 30 2010 08:55 Ksyper wrote: I'm not about to start a flame war with you close minded people who can't even provide an argument to support their claims. Have fun with your superiority complex. thank you master. we all (I mean us, close minded persons) are grateful towards you showing us how great a really, genuienely open actual mind can be | ||
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
On September 30 2010 09:14 meathook wrote: Jesus Christ.. how about READING THE FUCKING THREAD before posting in it?? Have fun with that vacuum inside that thing on your shoulders. And this. WTF? One should always attempt to be a part of "the majority" according to you? Oh, that's very interesting.. Good thing you're of no importance, because that would actually be scary. Ok from what I can gather from this thread is that people say SC2 is a joke and players who like it do so because of it's graphics, which isn't true, so those arguments aren't enough. There are even some comments saying that smooth motions somehow make the game less exciting. Also people saying that blizzard only made SC2 as a way to get your hard earned money, which is also a terrible argument because sc and scbw weren't free when they came out. And some guy said something about the fact that there are wc3 players playing sc2 and that somehow that is a bad thing. Oh and something about baseball with a rubber ball. I am not saying that bw should die and that SC2 should replace it or whatever. I just don't agree with what you guys are saying about SC2, it still isn't as perfect as bw, but it will reach that stage in a few years, it's not like when sc came out it was the perfect game that it is today. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4456 Posts
no 3rd party system is invincible - look at pgtour and wgtour in the past | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:52 Thunderfist wrote: It's time to refresh SC community with new INCOMPLETE game, SO MANY new events YOU WANT TO PUNCH BABIES and A BUNCH OF SIMILAR BALL-ARMY strategies with new WANNA-BE pros. FTFY. Ksyper wrote: I'm not about to start a flame war with you close minded people who can't even provide an argument to support their claims. You don't support your claims. Your opinions are based on a lack of understanding. Your statements are based on a lack of education. GG no re kid. rick-dmg wrote: How can anybody actually complain about price. That's a question, not a statement. Its also retarded to NOT question price on anything ever for any reason you could ever conceive. The very fact that someone exists who has this opinion is proof that people have become testicle-less sheep. rick-dmg wrote: Don't buy them. You won't need them for multi-player, and if you actually want them for single-player - guess what... sometimes you have to pay for things you want. An intelligent person would infer that the expansions will include new evolution to the so-far shitty and inconsistent storyline. That same intellectual would infer that these new expansions will bring new units and maybe a few balance patches but the balance patches will remain extremely sparse until the game is complete. A retarded person would infer that you won't need the expansions for multiplayer experience. After all, certainly people with Brood War don't NEED to have gotten BW in order to use the game up-to-date online, right? If there was a chance you were correct, SC2 would be getting the shit patched out of it very often because nothing new other than shitty storyline would be coming from the expansions. As for paying for things? Torrents. You lose. iPlaY.NettleS wrote:my question is - what happens when iccup dies? Fish and Brainclan are more than capable of supporting the entire casually-competitive population. They even have a superior AH launcher and have a larger playerbase right now. Before some dumbass makes the incorrect point of "Well its Korean, which is somehow a problem.", if a large number of people who aren't korean join them and start playing amongst themselves, guess what you just have iCCup community on another server. | ||
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