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On September 02 2010 01:40 FishForThought wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 01:35 MaYuu wrote:
This is bullshit. There's no way Actiblizz+gretech can even support anything near the magnitude of 3 major leagues and 12 all inclusive teams, there just isn't money enough from their part.
I don't even need to state how fucking greedy they are. KeSPA did this shit for free, all they did was advertise their other products. I wonder what other products actiblizz and gretech advertise. They can't and they don't want to. Gretech/Blizzard want everyone to have a fair chance @ the top. The 12 pro-gaming teams are like the elite training school, and have a significant advantage over the normal players.
I heard in a lot of competitive games (both physical and video-games) have these "Professional Teams" where you train a specially-chosen group of players to be way better than anyone else so you can win the majority of games, and eventually be crowned the best of said game. I don't remember all competitions being "Everyone Play" or Inter-mural. I mean anyone with a brain could tell that would suck. Its good SC2 isn't setting up fo.... oh waaaaiiiiittttt.
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Canada11607 Posts
Of course this is only from Kespa's side. But even so, Gretch does have a point. Given that KESPA boycotted GOMTV before, unless they agree to otherwiese, KESPA could easily schedule tournaments to conflict with GSL times to screw with coverage.
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5003 Posts
On September 02 2010 02:50 Falling wrote:
Of course this is only from Kespa's side. But even so, Gretch does have a point. Given that KESPA boycotted GOMTV before, unless they agree to otherwiese, KESPA could easily schedule tournaments to conflict with GSL times to screw with coverage.
And they act on that by not signing it and saying "fuck you" like children?
Yeah, KeSPA acted like douchebags in the past but Gretech is just responding back showing that they're at KeSPA's level now. Fans? Fuck them. It's all about our petty, retarded conflicts in the past.
If that was the real problem then they would simply have a condition where no Proleague matches can be on at the same time as the GSL. I think that is reasonable tbh.
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United States335 Posts
On September 02 2010 00:00 junkacc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 23:50 Seam wrote:On September 01 2010 23:47 junkacc wrote:On September 01 2010 23:44 Gregsen wrote:On September 01 2010 23:39 Seam wrote:On September 01 2010 23:38 Milkis wrote:On September 01 2010 23:24 Seam wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm fairly new here, but Kespa has had YEARS to pay Blizzard so this wouldn't happen.
And Blizzard didn't even ask for much...they gave Gomtv rights for 1$...
So how is Blizzard in the wrong for finally being pissed off for being spat in the face for years? Er..... You should probably try digging up some of the older threads. Would love to, not gonna lie, I'm not up to date on all this... Any chance you could point me in the right direction? I love it when people like you crash into a thread, not reading anything and hop to the last page instead to post their bullshit. Your question has been answered so many times. Read the fucking conditions that OGN had to agree with to come to an understanding with Gretech. Or just read the last page with letmeloses brillant post. Or just read the OP and understand it. Is it so hard? Read to page 9, which included 9 pages of "OMG BLIZZARD SUCKS AND ONLY WANTS MONEY!!" and "OMG KESPA SUCKS AND ONLY WANTS MONEY!!" So forgive me for not knowing the whole situation. I just gave you a hint with my post where you should start. So do it. He's american... enough said. I apologize for not being able to choose where I was born =(. I'll read more into it next time, didn't expect to be insulted for where I live after being willing to learn more. Sorry, but was fed up with the same uninformed posts popping up over and over again, always with simpleton logic that betrays how uninformed and simple most poster's thought process is. And it doesn't help that your country is dominated by 5 second soundbites and dumb movies that portray everything in disneyland black and white good guy bad guy terms.
You didn't find it at all ironic as you were typing that that you were making a huge sweeping generalization about the USA, that when one poster didn't know wtf was going on before posting your knee jerk response was to stereotype one of the largest countries on the planet, and your big complaint was that Americans like to resort to ignorant oversimplifications? I really hope you're trolling, bro.
Fuck you Blizzard god fucking damnit. I really was willing to give pro SC2 a try and follow it (but not for a monthly fee lol) even if I like BW better but no fucking way now. I'm not sure I would have motivated myself to start watching SC2 right now had BW died on its own, let alone after Blizz/Gretech strangling it to death so that its viewership doesn't detract from SC2. Maybe KeSPA's no martyr but this is way too many things stacking up against Blizz/Gretech for me to see two real sides to this story.
Seriously that bit about charging people just to watch vods, let alone streams, of pro SC2 will damage the SC2 scene way more than BW ever could. Can you imagine when you first learned about pro SCBW in South Korea if you learned you had to pay $30 to be able to watch vods? Not even hardcore fans are going to be willing to pay for vods and streams, let alone newcomers. The conversation will be like: "Hey, I heard they have pro-SC2 in South Korea." "Oh really, that's kind of cool I guess, I wonder if there are videos online or something we can check out." "Here it is, oh uh it says here you have to pay a $30/month fee to be able to watch SC2 vids." "Haha what? Fuck that"
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Coupled with GSL costs ranging from 30 bucks for VODS watchable for one season and 20 bucks for the live stream, which I asume is only for the current season (who knows if costs will scale for finals and such), things are looking grimmer than ever for the average joe esports fan.
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On September 02 2010 02:22 dybydx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 02:04 Plexa wrote:On September 02 2010 02:00 Milkis wrote:On September 02 2010 01:40 FishForThought wrote:On September 02 2010 01:35 MaYuu wrote:
This is bullshit. There's no way Actiblizz+gretech can even support anything near the magnitude of 3 major leagues and 12 all inclusive teams, there just isn't money enough from their part.
I don't even need to state how fucking greedy they are. KeSPA did this shit for free, all they did was advertise their other products. I wonder what other products actiblizz and gretech advertise. They can't and they don't want to. Gretech/Blizzard want everyone to have a fair chance @ the top. The 12 pro-gaming teams are like the elite training school, and have a significant advantage over the normal players. yes. they're gonna go back to the days where "progamers" sit in cramped apartments and eat ramen and 3 minute instant foods all fucking day. that's what they want lol, "prize hunters", not "progamers". This is, after all, esporst 2.0. do you REALLY want a proleague? actually yes. some of my fav moments watching BW have came from Proleague. in particular - FBH.
hahaha,
a not romanic who dont see sarcasm
anyway i douubt gom will go so far that proleague will be shut down
gom want that their GSL will be broadcasted in the primetime and not pl ...
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On September 01 2010 22:23 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 20:43 lololol wrote:
Selling intellectual property rights to OGN and MBC, when they do not own and have never owned the rights to Starcraft, and even not aknowledging Blizzard has the rights to Starcraft at all during 3 years of negotiations. They boycotted GOM... yeah, that surely shows they care for e-sports, right?
And this is far from a full list of all the shit kespa has done.
If anything kespa is a symbol of all that is currently wrong with progaming in Korea. Blizzard-Activision is the symbol of all that is wrong with profit driven game making in the world. Which is worse? Also, there's a difference between supporting and paying for damages because it'll compete with the GSL.
This has nothing to do with Blizzard, they are not negotiating with Blizzard, wtf? In fact, they practically refused to negotiate with Blizzard for 3 whole years and were complaining about impossible to meet demands. How much time it took Blizzard to find a partner that could achieve the impossible? ...but kespa said it was impossible?!
The simple truth of the matter is that the demands were very reasonable and that it was all kespa's bullshit. Hell, they weren't even willing to acknowledge that Blizzard holds the intelectual rights to Starcraft, ffs!
If anything it was their own damn fault for being so stupid and stubborn, they could've signed with Blizzard and wouldn't have to pay for damages or anything like that.
How are the Blizzard guys even remotely at fault that kespa is controlled by a bunch of morons?
If you don't like capitalsm, then blame capitalism. If you don't like Gretech's policy, you can't blame Blizzard for it and if you don't like kespa's shit, you can only really blame kespa for it.
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5003 Posts
On September 02 2010 03:35 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 22:23 Milkis wrote:On September 01 2010 20:43 lololol wrote:
Selling intellectual property rights to OGN and MBC, when they do not own and have never owned the rights to Starcraft, and even not aknowledging Blizzard has the rights to Starcraft at all during 3 years of negotiations. They boycotted GOM... yeah, that surely shows they care for e-sports, right?
And this is far from a full list of all the shit kespa has done.
If anything kespa is a symbol of all that is currently wrong with progaming in Korea. Blizzard-Activision is the symbol of all that is wrong with profit driven game making in the world. Which is worse? Also, there's a difference between supporting and paying for damages because it'll compete with the GSL. This has nothing to do with Blizzard, they are not negotiating with Blizzard, wtf? In fact, they practically refused to negotiate with Blizzard for 3 whole years and were complaining about impossible to meet demands. How much time it took Blizzard to find a partner that could achieve the impossible? ...but kespa said it was impossible?! The simple truth of the matter is that the demands were very reasonable and that it was all kespa's bullshit. Hell, they weren't even willing to acknowledge that Blizzard holds the intelectual rights to Starcraft, ffs! If anything it was their own damn fault for being so stupid and stubborn, they could've signed with Blizzard and wouldn't have to pay for damages or anything like that. How are the Blizzard guys even remotely at fault that kespa is controlled by a bunch of morons? If you don't like capitalsm, then blame capitalism. If you don't like Gretech's policy, you can't blame Blizzard for it and if you don't like kespa's shit, you can only really blame kespa for it.
I'm willing to gamble Gretech's contract with Blizzard-Activision is a HUGE reason why this is happening.
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@lololol,
how are u certain that blizzard's demands are reasonable? in fact, kespa challenged blizz/gretech to make their demands public so the community can judge but they have refused and wanted kespa to stick to the non-disclosure agreement.
just look at gretech's demands for GSL, they wanted $30 subscription fee per mth to watch SC2 matches when OSL/MSL matches are free.
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On September 02 2010 04:01 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 03:35 lololol wrote:On September 01 2010 22:23 Milkis wrote:On September 01 2010 20:43 lololol wrote:
Selling intellectual property rights to OGN and MBC, when they do not own and have never owned the rights to Starcraft, and even not aknowledging Blizzard has the rights to Starcraft at all during 3 years of negotiations. They boycotted GOM... yeah, that surely shows they care for e-sports, right?
And this is far from a full list of all the shit kespa has done.
If anything kespa is a symbol of all that is currently wrong with progaming in Korea. Blizzard-Activision is the symbol of all that is wrong with profit driven game making in the world. Which is worse? Also, there's a difference between supporting and paying for damages because it'll compete with the GSL. This has nothing to do with Blizzard, they are not negotiating with Blizzard, wtf? In fact, they practically refused to negotiate with Blizzard for 3 whole years and were complaining about impossible to meet demands. How much time it took Blizzard to find a partner that could achieve the impossible? ...but kespa said it was impossible?! The simple truth of the matter is that the demands were very reasonable and that it was all kespa's bullshit. Hell, they weren't even willing to acknowledge that Blizzard holds the intelectual rights to Starcraft, ffs! If anything it was their own damn fault for being so stupid and stubborn, they could've signed with Blizzard and wouldn't have to pay for damages or anything like that. How are the Blizzard guys even remotely at fault that kespa is controlled by a bunch of morons? If you don't like capitalsm, then blame capitalism. If you don't like Gretech's policy, you can't blame Blizzard for it and if you don't like kespa's shit, you can only really blame kespa for it. I'm willing to gamble Gretech's contract with Blizzard-Activision is a HUGE reason why this is happening.
If there's no solid info on this, we can only guess.
I'm certainly willing to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt much more than kespa, considering their history.
Just as they are complaining about the pay for damages, they may very well be doing things to fuck with Gretech. For example: they could be simply refusing to make it so there are no conflicting schedules and purposedly breaking the NDA, so the fans would have no info from Gretech and only what kespa released.
Or the Gretech guys are just pissed off about the boycott and want revenge of some sort.
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@lololol
if ur talking about history, then kespa definitely did more to promote e-sport than blizz. kespa ran 3 leagues 52 weeks a year. blizzard runs what... Blizzcon Invitational.
blizz is a for-profit company. they are not promoting SC/SC2 out of goodness of their heart. they do it for money. kespa on the other hand is a non-profit org established by the Ministry of Culture. they also promote 22 other titles and arrange televised matches for the other games too.
if anything, the benefit of the doubt should go to kespa and the Ministry of Culture.
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On September 02 2010 03:35 lololol wrote:
The simple truth of the matter is that the demands were very reasonable and that it was all kespa's bullshit.
Don't pretend you know shit that you don't.
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WTF? 30 BUCKS A MONTH? To watch a shitty game? Good way to get fans dumb asses.
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I blame the French. Activision is French. Everything was so much nicer before the French decided to come in and fuck everything up.
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On September 02 2010 04:36 Pedo.Bear wrote:
I blame the French. Activision is French. Everything was so much nicer before the French decided to come in and fuck everything up.
haha that makes me remember...
Wasn't the company that created fallout die out because of some french businessman?
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On September 02 2010 04:36 Pedo.Bear wrote:
I blame the French. Activision is French. Everything was so much nicer before the French decided to come in and fuck everything up.
I hope you're joking. Blizzard was owned by Vivendi (those are the French you're talking about, not Activision) waaaaaaaaay before that. Activision fucked everything up I agree, but Vivendi didn't do much...
Anyway, the ones who made the decisions are Americans.
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On September 02 2010 04:24 dybydx wrote:
@lololol
if ur talking about history, then kespa definitely did more to promote e-sport than blizz. kespa ran 3 leagues 52 weeks a year. blizzard runs what... Blizzcon Invitational.
blizz is a for-profit company. they are not promoting SC/SC2 out of goodness of their heart. they do it for money. kespa on the other hand is a non-profit org established by the Ministry of Culture. they also promote 22 other titles and arrange televised matches for the other games too.
if anything, the benefit of the doubt should go to kespa and the Ministry of Culture.
.... They were approved by the Ministry of Culture not established by them.
Look this is black and white. Blizzard apparently has visions of how e-sports should be and they want to guide e-sport to that. To do that they need control and moderation of people promoting e-sport which is Kespa. Kespa likes their monopoly on Korean e-sport and doesn't like to be controlled or competed against, so they play their power and influence card. Blizzard goes to their competitor GOMTV who is willing to be moderated by blizzard. I mean who wouldn't? You control the Starcraft franchise, you basically control pro-gaming industry in Korea.
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5003 Posts
On September 02 2010 04:15 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:01 Milkis wrote:On September 02 2010 03:35 lololol wrote:On September 01 2010 22:23 Milkis wrote:On September 01 2010 20:43 lololol wrote:
Selling intellectual property rights to OGN and MBC, when they do not own and have never owned the rights to Starcraft, and even not aknowledging Blizzard has the rights to Starcraft at all during 3 years of negotiations. They boycotted GOM... yeah, that surely shows they care for e-sports, right?
And this is far from a full list of all the shit kespa has done.
If anything kespa is a symbol of all that is currently wrong with progaming in Korea. Blizzard-Activision is the symbol of all that is wrong with profit driven game making in the world. Which is worse? Also, there's a difference between supporting and paying for damages because it'll compete with the GSL. This has nothing to do with Blizzard, they are not negotiating with Blizzard, wtf? In fact, they practically refused to negotiate with Blizzard for 3 whole years and were complaining about impossible to meet demands. How much time it took Blizzard to find a partner that could achieve the impossible? ...but kespa said it was impossible?! The simple truth of the matter is that the demands were very reasonable and that it was all kespa's bullshit. Hell, they weren't even willing to acknowledge that Blizzard holds the intelectual rights to Starcraft, ffs! If anything it was their own damn fault for being so stupid and stubborn, they could've signed with Blizzard and wouldn't have to pay for damages or anything like that. How are the Blizzard guys even remotely at fault that kespa is controlled by a bunch of morons? If you don't like capitalsm, then blame capitalism. If you don't like Gretech's policy, you can't blame Blizzard for it and if you don't like kespa's shit, you can only really blame kespa for it. I'm willing to gamble Gretech's contract with Blizzard-Activision is a HUGE reason why this is happening. If there's no solid info on this, we can only guess. I'm certainly willing to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt much more than kespa, considering their history. Just as they are complaining about the pay for damages, they may very well be doing things to fuck with Gretech. For example: they could be simply refusing to make it so there are no conflicting schedules and purposedly breaking the NDA, so the fans would have no info from Gretech and only what kespa released. Or the Gretech guys are just pissed off about the boycott and want revenge of some sort.
The simple truth of the matter is that the demands were very reasonable and that it was all kespa's bullshit. Hell, they weren't even willing to acknowledge that Blizzard holds the intelectual rights to Starcraft, ffs!
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On September 02 2010 04:46 FishForThought wrote:
Look this is black and white. Blizzard apparently has visions of how e-sports should be and they want to guide e-sport to that. To do that they need control and moderation of people promoting e-sport which is Kespa. Kespa likes their monopoly on Korean e-sport and doesn't like to be controlled or competed against, so they play their power and influence card. Blizzard goes to their competitor GOMTV who is willing to be moderated by blizzard. I mean who wouldn't? You control the Starcraft franchise, you basically control pro-gaming industry in Korea.
i disagree.
blizz made SC2, that is a fact. but blizz is not owner of e-sport, not even owner of pro-SC2 gaming. blizz wants to monopolize how their game can or can not be played. such actions has been struck down in the US court.
kespa on the other hand, truly promotes e-sport. not just SC:BW. they promote the entire e-sport industry. kespa at least cared enuf to have the players paid. blizz doesnt.
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On September 02 2010 04:50 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:15 lololol wrote:On September 02 2010 04:01 Milkis wrote:On September 02 2010 03:35 lololol wrote:On September 01 2010 22:23 Milkis wrote:On September 01 2010 20:43 lololol wrote:
Selling intellectual property rights to OGN and MBC, when they do not own and have never owned the rights to Starcraft, and even not aknowledging Blizzard has the rights to Starcraft at all during 3 years of negotiations. They boycotted GOM... yeah, that surely shows they care for e-sports, right?
And this is far from a full list of all the shit kespa has done.
If anything kespa is a symbol of all that is currently wrong with progaming in Korea. Blizzard-Activision is the symbol of all that is wrong with profit driven game making in the world. Which is worse? Also, there's a difference between supporting and paying for damages because it'll compete with the GSL. This has nothing to do with Blizzard, they are not negotiating with Blizzard, wtf? In fact, they practically refused to negotiate with Blizzard for 3 whole years and were complaining about impossible to meet demands. How much time it took Blizzard to find a partner that could achieve the impossible? ...but kespa said it was impossible?! The simple truth of the matter is that the demands were very reasonable and that it was all kespa's bullshit. Hell, they weren't even willing to acknowledge that Blizzard holds the intelectual rights to Starcraft, ffs! If anything it was their own damn fault for being so stupid and stubborn, they could've signed with Blizzard and wouldn't have to pay for damages or anything like that. How are the Blizzard guys even remotely at fault that kespa is controlled by a bunch of morons? If you don't like capitalsm, then blame capitalism. If you don't like Gretech's policy, you can't blame Blizzard for it and if you don't like kespa's shit, you can only really blame kespa for it. I'm willing to gamble Gretech's contract with Blizzard-Activision is a HUGE reason why this is happening. If there's no solid info on this, we can only guess. I'm certainly willing to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt much more than kespa, considering their history. Just as they are complaining about the pay for damages, they may very well be doing things to fuck with Gretech. For example: they could be simply refusing to make it so there are no conflicting schedules and purposedly breaking the NDA, so the fans would have no info from Gretech and only what kespa released. Or the Gretech guys are just pissed off about the boycott and want revenge of some sort. Show nested quote +The simple truth of the matter is that the demands were very reasonable and that it was all kespa's bullshit. Hell, they weren't even willing to acknowledge that Blizzard holds the intelectual rights to Starcraft, ffs!
Both Blizzard and kespa officialy released that kespa does not recognize the rights. Kespa's stand was Blizzard had no grounds to ask for anything, since according to them the game itself is not esports and esports is a communal property.
This is exactly solid info on that matter.
Decrying them as impossible to meet is plain bullshit. Gretech negotiated a deal in... less than month? Impossible, my ass, kespa just wanted to keep their monopoly and not have to pay anything and that came back to bite them in the ass.
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EPT
