On June 11 2010 10:10 ZlaSHeR wrote: Once again showing everyone is willing to make this work except KeSPA
Sorry to burst your bubble, but nothing will come out of this. GOM is the soundboard for Blizz and the fees will still be outrageous amongst other things, i.e. term of agreement valid 1 year. MBC and GOM got nothing done. It's the classic stalemate with a NDA attached to it. The best case scenario is arbitration. If this goes to the courts, it could drag out for months.
Just keep your pants on and watch that the individual leagues get further if not complete a deal in significantly less time and pain than KeSPA
On June 11 2010 16:24 Emon_ wrote: From previous articles we know Gretech/Blizzard have absurd demands and dont want to negotiate. Now that they are talking its basically OGN caving in and accepting some of the crap that they want. Either way, OSL is making a turn for the worse.
Not really, if only OGN accepts they conditions, they can't be as bad as if KeSPA did.
Remember that the worst rule (probably) was the one that said "We can cancel the contracts between the players and the teams and bring the player overseas to play the game we want in the league we want". That rule can only be enforced to KeSPA, not OGN or MBC since they don't manage the players.
Yup, pretty much. The question is will GOM's (aka proxy Blizzard's) demands include something like "if KeSPA does x, we will not allow you to air it anymore". If so, I really hope OGN and MBC don't go for it. I can see them trying something like that though, to turn them towards a non-KeSPA esport like SC2, assuming SC2 will actually succeeds as an esport, which is too early to know.
On June 11 2010 16:24 Emon_ wrote: From previous articles we know Gretech/Blizzard have absurd demands and dont want to negotiate. Now that they are talking its basically OGN caving in and accepting some of the crap that they want. Either way, OSL is making a turn for the worse.
Remember that the worst rule (probably) was the one that said "We can cancel the contracts between the players and the teams and bring the player overseas to play the game we want in the league we want". That rule can only be enforced to KeSPA, not OGN or MBC since they don't manage the players.
On June 11 2010 22:52 roronoe wrote: Would YOU trust KeSPA to do the negotiating for you? Obviously not, or this shit wouldn't get to this stage in the first place. So if MBC and OGN still want to run their tournaments, they clearly have to start negotiating themselves.
You know what? This reminds me of "Divide et Impera". Blizzard did their job well. :D
On June 11 2010 09:33 majesty.k)seRapH wrote: is anyone really surprised? if they didnt, and nal_ra makes it though then they'll be screwed beyond all belief. and ofc ra will make it through.
On June 11 2010 21:42 nttea wrote: pretty stupid that they have to get permission from fucking gretech to run a tournament imo -.- intellectual property is fucking bullshit.
Yes, it's terrible that people want to get their hard-earned money for working on intellectual property instead of getting it stolen.
Yeah... which is why Esports will never truly work out.
On June 11 2010 10:10 ZlaSHeR wrote: Once again showing everyone is willing to make this work except KeSPA
Sorry to burst your bubble, but nothing will come out of this. GOM is the soundboard for Blizz and the fees will still be outrageous amongst other things, i.e. term of agreement valid 1 year. MBC and GOM got nothing done. It's the classic stalemate with a NDA attached to it. The best case scenario is arbitration. If this goes to the courts, it could drag out for months.
Just keep your pants on and watch that the individual leagues get further if not complete a deal in significantly less time and pain than KeSPA
Put your money where your mouth is then. I'll bet you a grand that they don't broker a deal before the given deadline.
Man people seem to be making some pretty wild accusations with very little info to back them up, afaik unless people have seen documentation of the terms of the agreements that i don't know about.
As far as i can tell from the limited info available is that Blizz wants in on the action whether for monetary reasons ( which i doubt is the main reason, although always plays a part, since Blizz already has sooooo much money, how much more can they get from the Korean gaming economy, not trying to be mean but it is quite a bit less than the american or chinese market, WoW im looking at you) or for control reasons ( i think they want to play a significant part in the future of E-Sports not only in korea but in the world but the best place to start is in korea, how significant we don't know, again unless there is documentation about it, but its probably very significant) and they have wanted in on the action for a few years now while Kespa has denied Blizz's attempts but with Sc2 coming out soon Blizz decided to hell with it and stepped around Kespa and signed with Gretech.
In the end Blizz does legally own the IP rights to the game they made which does offer them a certain level of control/say in things related to there game, obviously what the level is both kespa and blizz disagreed greatly but Gretech didn't and signed the contract Kespa wouldn't, giving Blizz the leverage to force all the other relevant parties to negotiate with them and is allowing them to force their way into having some level of control over the starcraft esports.
Now as to which side is the "bad guy" i don't know until i see what the terms of the agreement Blizz wanted to force onto Kespa but i think both sides are being a little pigheaded. Personally i think Blizz(more as a supporting figure) Kespa and the players themselves(SC Progamers union!!!) should have relatively equal say in all things SC Esport related.
Again whether in the end this will be a bad thing or a good thing we don't know. Some positive things from this is that Blizz does have the money to throw at not only the korean starcraft esports scene but also the world and with the release of SC2 i think Blizz will be more inclined to do so. On the other side the BW scene could be choked out during the struggle but aslong as the fans are interested and the players want to play then even if the current leagues, which i think is unlikely, are shut down Gretech will be able to create new ones (Kespa did it from the ground up to say that Gretech won't be able to pick up from what Kespa already establish is silly, albeit it would most likely take a huge step back at first, i think it would quickly recover especially if Blizz throws some money at it) which then comes to the idea that Blizz for some reason wants Sc1 to fail so that sc2 can step in is again silly since they are essentially 2 sides of the same coin and don't have to be mutually exclusive to each other nor is Korea the only place that Sc2 can flourish and grow.
Wasn't there already a post on this? Edit: nvm that was MBC, Great news! eSports prevails on Korea's end with the exception of KeSPA (?) It's all up to blizzard to not fuck up.
On June 12 2010 04:01 TangJuice wrote: which i doubt is the main reason, although always plays a part, since Blizz already has sooooo much money
Yeah, "we have so much money already, we don't need any more". That's totally how shareholders reason.
if you read a little further i say from the korean gaming economy, yes they want money but how much can they get comparatively to their other markets around the world to that from korea even if they got 100% of the money kespa gets now. i can't imagine it'd be that much, again comparatively and therefore would be more worth wild spending the time and money on tapping into a different market or developing an already existing one, especially if it goes to court since litigation costs money, lots and lots of money.
On June 11 2010 16:24 Emon_ wrote: From previous articles we know Gretech/Blizzard have absurd demands and dont want to negotiate. Now that they are talking its basically OGN caving in and accepting some of the crap that they want. Either way, OSL is making a turn for the worse.
Remember that the worst rule (probably) was the one that said "We can cancel the contracts between the players and the teams and bring the player overseas to play the game we want in the league we want". That rule can only be enforced to KeSPA, not OGN or MBC since they don't manage the players.
is this true? wow
I thought, but I can't find the source now >_>
Maybe it was a mistranslation, and got corrected after? I'm pretty sure I read it from a reliable source. Or hopefully, it was written with other words and that's why I don't manage to find it.
Sorry, I'll edit my post to warn. If someone remembers reading something similar, please point it out. I think it was in a list of demands that KeSPA named.
I am always surprised that no one ever brings up Activision in this Blizzard-Kespa debate. Seems to me that Kolshit is trying to squeeze every penny out. Esports struggles to find sponsers sometimes and is only good for publicity, I honestly wonder how much money (read profit) can be in it.
On June 12 2010 04:01 TangJuice wrote: which i doubt is the main reason, although always plays a part, since Blizz already has sooooo much money
Yeah, "we have so much money already, we don't need any more". That's totally how shareholders reason.
if you read a little further i say from the korean gaming economy, yes they want money but how much can they get comparatively to their other markets around the world to that from korea even if they got 100% of the money kespa gets now. i can't imagine it'd be that much, again comparatively and therefore would be more worth wild spending the time and money on tapping into a different market or developing an already existing one, especially if it goes to court since litigation costs money, lots and lots of money.
Comparatively? They need minimal effort (re: time and money) to attempt to get money out of the already established Korean e-sports market. They don't need to develop anything. All they need is to have their lawyers write up agreements. It would only go to court if Blizzard wanted it to go to court, therefore their litigation costs are also pretty much nothing if they want it to be.
On June 11 2010 23:12 Stratos_speAr wrote: Yes, it's terrible that people want to get their hard-earned money for working on intellectual property instead of getting it stolen.
I think its fine for blizzard to want royalties, but putting in clauses about controlling players seems out of bounds.
Hopefully the final contract sees the light of day and we all can see whats what.
On June 12 2010 04:01 TangJuice wrote: which i doubt is the main reason, although always plays a part, since Blizz already has sooooo much money
Yeah, "we have so much money already, we don't need any more". That's totally how shareholders reason.
if you read a little further i say from the korean gaming economy, yes they want money but how much can they get comparatively to their other markets around the world to that from korea even if they got 100% of the money kespa gets now. i can't imagine it'd be that much, again comparatively and therefore would be more worth wild spending the time and money on tapping into a different market or developing an already existing one, especially if it goes to court since litigation costs money, lots and lots of money.
Comparatively? They need minimal effort (re: time and money) to attempt to get money out of the already established Korean e-sports market. They don't need to develop anything. All they need is to have their lawyers write up agreements. It would only go to court if Blizzard wanted it to go to court, therefore their litigation costs are also pretty much nothing if they want it to be.
Bah i agree with that, what i mean is that since they can't really get that much money siphoning off from the korean starcraft esports market currently compared to how much money they get from other revenue streams that it doesn't make much sense to me that siphoning off that money would be their primary reason and concern for kespa not recognizing their IP rights. Yes they want to get in on the action but hopefully more so that in the future as it develops and as they develop it they will already be in a position to reap the rewards not only from sc1 but sc2 as well and not only from korea but other places as well. Im pretty much trying to put a positive spin on Blizz's greed in that they arn't doing this just so they can sit back, tax and lord over the korean sc esports market but develop it. I could be very wrong and i might be fighting for a mute point but i think its just too early and i think we have to little info to say that Blizz is now an evil money sucking corporation bent on grabbing as much as they can from what they can like some people *seem* to be thinking.
I can't believe that anyone follows blizzards bullshit after this. Just think about it, instead of expanding esports they disrupt maybe the only truely successful eSports organization in the world. Instead of trying to make an organization in another country, lets just look straight to Korea and attempt to basically take control of their already vibrant scene. The bullshit is so crazy, like GOM bringing up the fans. Yes we care about the fans so much we are willing to potentially end the only successful BW leagues for... SC2.
People don't seem to understand, there is no huge amount of money in KeSPA, they are hanging on just by the corporate sponsors... if someone decides they need to pay more for some arbitrary reason (despite the games themselves giving free publicity) then the sponsors will NOT be there, hence = no real proteams anymore.
EPT
