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I think Flash's dominance is more impressive than oovs. Simply because it's less likely.
(the most impressive thing with oov was that he always won finals as far as I can remember..)
The reason for it is that we are humans, we have limitations.
The closer everyone gets to "perfection" the harder it is for one to dominate.
It was more likely that one would dominate back in the days than it is now (if you agree that we as humans actually have limitations to how well we can possibly play starcraft, even though its impossible to determine that exact point there must be one).
Since our skill can only move between the weakest and strongest possible point in skill-level its more likely that one players skill is far ahead of others when we still have much to improve.
Once the players get closer to the highest point it's less likely that one would be far ahead of others.
The same way it's more likely to dominate now than it would be five years from now if SC is still played.
We're simply closer to perfection now than 5 years ago at playing starcraft.
I would think it works this way in everything we do, not just starcraft.
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who cares about domination? flash is just better
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On April 18 2010 06:11 StylishVODs wrote:
I think Flash's dominance is more impressive than oovs. Simply because it's less likely.
(the most impressive thing with oov was that he always won finals as far as I can remember..)
The reason for it is that we are humans, we have limitations.
The closer everyone gets to "perfection" the harder it is for one to dominate.
It was more likely that one would dominate back in the days than it is now (if you agree that we as humans actually have limitations to how well we can possibly play starcraft, even though its impossible to determine that exact point there must be one).
Since our skill can only move between the weakest and strongest possible point in skill-level its more likely that one players skill is far ahead of others when we still have much to improve.
Once the players get closer to the highest point it's less likely that one would be far ahead of others.
The same way it's more likely to dominate now than it would be five years from now if SC is still played.
We're simply closer to perfection now than 5 years ago at playing starcraft.
I would think it works this way in everything we do, not just starcraft.
This expresses what I was thinking reading through this debate. Yes, to say that iloveoov's competition was a "joke" is silly. But Flash's dominance is indeed more impressive. Relative skill matters, but absolute skill matters too.
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On April 18 2010 08:29 Beachac wrote:
who cares about domination? flash is just better
ye well by arguing like that darkelf is better than boxer so;)
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Flash's streaks are amazing. As noted by someone earlier, 60% of flash's Z losses have been to THE DONG himself. I personally believe that if flash can put away Jaedong, he'll secure his place in history (not that he already hasn't, you know what i mean).
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On April 18 2010 09:05 Jugan wrote:
Flash's streaks are amazing. As noted by someone earlier, 60% of flash's Z losses have been to THE DONG himself. I personally believe that if flash can put away Jaedong, he'll secure his place in history (not that he already hasn't, you know what i mean).
ye 60% of his losses was from the MSL fail finals:O
The best thing about flash is that he very rarely lose to scrubs which gives him the ability to maintain such high winning percentage and thus keep such high ELO score.
The bad thing is that everyone is a scrub ELOwise now compared to flash, even jaedong so it'll be tought to raise it further lol
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Not really. He gets 5 or more points from the other top elo people. Hell, Hwasin just gave him like 4 despite barely being top 20 Elo.
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On April 18 2010 09:39 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Not really. He gets 5 or more points from the other top elo people. Hell, Hwasin just gave him like 4 despite barely being top 20 Elo.
ye he gets 5 points or so from the other top elo players. thats proving my point:O heck he's 120~ elo above #2. And the rest of the top gamers are about 2200 which gives flash a 200 ELO lead. Isn't that pretty remarkable?
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if no one will ever beat flashes current record because bw is dying, toss will never have a bonjwa O.o
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On April 18 2010 09:52 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 09:39 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Not really. He gets 5 or more points from the other top elo people. Hell, Hwasin just gave him like 4 despite barely being top 20 Elo. ye he gets 5 points or so from the other top elo players. thats proving my point:O heck he's 120~ elo above #2. And the rest of the top gamers are about 2200 which gives flash a 200 ELO lead. Isn't that pretty remarkable?
Well I mean, people keep saying how he'll have to get 20 straight wins or some garbage to pass his elo peak everytime he drops a game when it isn't true. Almost no Elo system will have someone who can't get a reasonable amount of points from beating the other top players.
I mean, short of being like 60% higher than the #2, which is just silly.
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On April 18 2010 10:19 Frolossus wrote:
if no one will ever beat flashes current record because bw is dying, toss will never have a bonjwa O.o its quite a shame, cause bisu had potential. hopefully those rumours about bisu throwing games are false; otherwise, shame on bisu
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People talk about the 'aura' of a dominant player, Flash has that right now.
Just look at the last OSL winner interviews (OSL R16 Day 6). Not once did the interviewers ask a single question about Flash to anyone, but all four of the players brought up and talked about Flash on their own. They know what's up.
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Spoilers for todays KT match:
+ Show Spoiler +With Flash's effortless win over Free I believe he now has 70% in all matchups :D
I also just have to restate my awe at how ridiculous the game vs Soulkey was...
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On April 18 2010 10:51 Hinanawi wrote:
People talk about the 'aura' of a dominant player, Flash has that right now.
Just look at the last OSL winner interviews (OSL R16 Day 6). Not once did the interviewers ask a single question about Flash to anyone, but all four of the players brought up and talked about Flash on their own. They know what's up.
QFT
Flash dominance is insane right now, people who face him knows what's gonna happen.
The reason Jaedong beat Flash in the MSL was because Flash was busy practicing for the OSL. I bet if Flash concentrated on beating Jaedong he woulda won that. Im a bigger fan of Jaedong then Flash but really, you can't deny that Flash is a absolute beast right now. 90% Winrate vs Toss in the OP really proves it.
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On April 17 2010 09:32 OneOther wrote:I mean it's unbelievable. The fact that he's doing that against many of other top progamers is...unreal. Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 09:30 MuffinDude wrote:
oov still did better than flash against vz =D I want to give more credit to Flash because I feel that overall competition is tougher now than the times of oov's domination.
Why does Flash deserve more credit? Competition will always be tougher as time passes since the game evolves and new players benefit from the experience of the past, are mechanically better, etc., and as such, Flash's opponents are stronger than Oovs at his prime, but Flash has also benefited from all that. If you don't take this into account then there are no means to compare current players to past players as current player will always be overall better.
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kemoryan, I think StylishVODs explains the case for Flash's dominance being more impressive in his post at the top of this page, so check that out.
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It's more impressive because he's kicking more ass.
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On April 20 2010 00:10 kemoryan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 09:32 OneOther wrote:I mean it's unbelievable. The fact that he's doing that against many of other top progamers is...unreal. On April 17 2010 09:30 MuffinDude wrote:
oov still did better than flash against vz =D I want to give more credit to Flash because I feel that overall competition is tougher now than the times of oov's domination. Why does Flash deserve more credit? Competition will always be tougher as time passes since the game evolves and new players benefit from the experience of the past, are mechanically better, etc., and as such, Flash's opponents are stronger than Oovs at his prime, but Flash has also benefited from all that. If you don't take this into account then there are no means to compare current players to past players as current player will always be overall better.
QFT
you say what i wanted to say only better.
And on another note, Flash is definatly looking more bonjwa that jaedong or bisu have ever done. If he gets another title and advances further in MSL than jeadong i would definatly call him bonjwa.
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If Flash wins both the upcoming OSL and MSL, I'll call him bonjwa.
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On April 20 2010 00:33 Zato-1 wrote:
If Flash wins both the upcoming OSL and MSL, I'll call him bonjwa.
QFT
Wish he has Boxer's charisma though. But Flash definitely isn't robotic.
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EPT
