• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:35
CEST 04:35
KST 11:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: Maru, Trigger, Rogue, NightMare12Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, sOs, Reynor, Solar15[ASL19] Ro8 Preview: Unyielding3Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025)17[ASL19] Ro8 Preview: Rejuvenation8
Community News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A Results (2025)4$1,250 WardiTV May [May 6th-May 18th]4Clem wins PiG Sty Festival #66Weekly Cups (April 28-May 4): ByuN & Astrea break through1Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game29
StarCraft 2
General
How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A Results (2025) Code S RO12 Preview: Maru, Trigger, Rogue, NightMare Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, sOs, Reynor, Solar
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group A INu's Battles#12 < ByuN vs herO > [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group B GSL 2025 details announced - 2 seasons pre-EWC 2025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)
Strategy
[G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed Mutation # 470 Certain Demise Mutation # 469 Frostbite
Brood War
General
Preserving Battlereports.com OGN to release AI-upscaled StarLeague from Feb 24 Battlenet Game Lobby Simulator [G] GenAI subtitles for Korean BW content BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL19] Ro8 Day 4 [BSL20] RO32 Group F - Saturday 20:00 CET [BSL20] RO32 Group E - Sunday 20:00 CET [CSLPRO] $1000 Spring is Here!
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Grand Theft Auto VI Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Ask and answer stupid questions here! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Elon Musk's lies, propaganda, etc. UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey Surprisingly good films/Hidden Gems
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
BLinD-RawR 50K Post Watch Party The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
What High-Performing Teams (…
TrAiDoS
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
BW PvZ Balance hypothetic…
Vasoline73
Test Entry for subject
xumakis
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13173 users

Flash's Last 20 games - Page 6

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 10 Next All
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
April 17 2010 21:11 GMT
#101
I think Flash's dominance is more impressive than oovs. Simply because it's less likely.
(the most impressive thing with oov was that he always won finals as far as I can remember..)

The reason for it is that we are humans, we have limitations.
The closer everyone gets to "perfection" the harder it is for one to dominate.

It was more likely that one would dominate back in the days than it is now (if you agree that we as humans actually have limitations to how well we can possibly play starcraft, even though its impossible to determine that exact point there must be one).

Since our skill can only move between the weakest and strongest possible point in skill-level its more likely that one players skill is far ahead of others when we still have much to improve.
Once the players get closer to the highest point it's less likely that one would be far ahead of others.

The same way it's more likely to dominate now than it would be five years from now if SC is still played.
We're simply closer to perfection now than 5 years ago at playing starcraft.
I would think it works this way in everything we do, not just starcraft.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Beachac
Profile Joined June 2009
United States278 Posts
April 17 2010 23:29 GMT
#102
who cares about domination? flash is just better
HnR)hT
Profile Joined October 2002
United States3468 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-18 00:57:05
April 17 2010 23:59 GMT
#103
On April 18 2010 06:11 StylishVODs wrote:
I think Flash's dominance is more impressive than oovs. Simply because it's less likely.
(the most impressive thing with oov was that he always won finals as far as I can remember..)

The reason for it is that we are humans, we have limitations.
The closer everyone gets to "perfection" the harder it is for one to dominate.

It was more likely that one would dominate back in the days than it is now (if you agree that we as humans actually have limitations to how well we can possibly play starcraft, even though its impossible to determine that exact point there must be one).

Since our skill can only move between the weakest and strongest possible point in skill-level its more likely that one players skill is far ahead of others when we still have much to improve.
Once the players get closer to the highest point it's less likely that one would be far ahead of others.

The same way it's more likely to dominate now than it would be five years from now if SC is still played.
We're simply closer to perfection now than 5 years ago at playing starcraft.
I would think it works this way in everything we do, not just starcraft.

This expresses what I was thinking reading through this debate. Yes, to say that iloveoov's competition was a "joke" is silly. But Flash's dominance is indeed more impressive. Relative skill matters, but absolute skill matters too.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
April 18 2010 00:00 GMT
#104
On April 18 2010 08:29 Beachac wrote:
who cares about domination? flash is just better


ye well by arguing like that darkelf is better than boxer so;)
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Jugan
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1566 Posts
April 18 2010 00:05 GMT
#105
Flash's streaks are amazing. As noted by someone earlier, 60% of flash's Z losses have been to THE DONG himself. I personally believe that if flash can put away Jaedong, he'll secure his place in history (not that he already hasn't, you know what i mean).
Even a Savior couldn't fix all problems. www.twitch.tv/xJugan
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
April 18 2010 00:10 GMT
#106
On April 18 2010 09:05 Jugan wrote:
Flash's streaks are amazing. As noted by someone earlier, 60% of flash's Z losses have been to THE DONG himself. I personally believe that if flash can put away Jaedong, he'll secure his place in history (not that he already hasn't, you know what i mean).


ye 60% of his losses was from the MSL fail finals:O
The best thing about flash is that he very rarely lose to scrubs which gives him the ability to maintain such high winning percentage and thus keep such high ELO score.
The bad thing is that everyone is a scrub ELOwise now compared to flash, even jaedong so it'll be tought to raise it further lol
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
April 18 2010 00:39 GMT
#107
Not really. He gets 5 or more points from the other top elo people. Hell, Hwasin just gave him like 4 despite barely being top 20 Elo.
Remember Violet.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-18 00:54:02
April 18 2010 00:52 GMT
#108
On April 18 2010 09:39 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Not really. He gets 5 or more points from the other top elo people. Hell, Hwasin just gave him like 4 despite barely being top 20 Elo.


ye he gets 5 points or so from the other top elo players. thats proving my point:O heck he's 120~ elo above #2. And the rest of the top gamers are about 2200 which gives flash a 200 ELO lead. Isn't that pretty remarkable?
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
April 18 2010 01:19 GMT
#109
if no one will ever beat flashes current record because bw is dying, toss will never have a bonjwa O.o
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
April 18 2010 01:30 GMT
#110
On April 18 2010 09:52 StylishVODs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2010 09:39 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Not really. He gets 5 or more points from the other top elo people. Hell, Hwasin just gave him like 4 despite barely being top 20 Elo.


ye he gets 5 points or so from the other top elo players. thats proving my point:O heck he's 120~ elo above #2. And the rest of the top gamers are about 2200 which gives flash a 200 ELO lead. Isn't that pretty remarkable?


Well I mean, people keep saying how he'll have to get 20 straight wins or some garbage to pass his elo peak everytime he drops a game when it isn't true. Almost no Elo system will have someone who can't get a reasonable amount of points from beating the other top players.

I mean, short of being like 60% higher than the #2, which is just silly.
Remember Violet.
We Are Here
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Australia1810 Posts
April 18 2010 01:37 GMT
#111
On April 18 2010 10:19 Frolossus wrote:
if no one will ever beat flashes current record because bw is dying, toss will never have a bonjwa O.o
its quite a shame, cause bisu had potential. hopefully those rumours about bisu throwing games are false; otherwise, shame on bisu
He who turns those around him into allies, possesses the most terrifying ability in the world.
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
April 18 2010 01:51 GMT
#112
People talk about the 'aura' of a dominant player, Flash has that right now.

Just look at the last OSL winner interviews (OSL R16 Day 6). Not once did the interviewers ask a single question about Flash to anyone, but all four of the players brought up and talked about Flash on their own. They know what's up.
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
April 19 2010 11:48 GMT
#113
Spoilers for todays KT match:

+ Show Spoiler +
With Flash's effortless win over Free I believe he now has 70% in all matchups :D

I also just have to restate my awe at how ridiculous the game vs Soulkey was...
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
KinosJourney2
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden1811 Posts
April 19 2010 14:08 GMT
#114
On April 18 2010 10:51 Hinanawi wrote:
People talk about the 'aura' of a dominant player, Flash has that right now.

Just look at the last OSL winner interviews (OSL R16 Day 6). Not once did the interviewers ask a single question about Flash to anyone, but all four of the players brought up and talked about Flash on their own. They know what's up.


QFT

Flash dominance is insane right now, people who face him knows what's gonna happen.

The reason Jaedong beat Flash in the MSL was because Flash was busy practicing for the OSL. I bet if Flash concentrated on beating Jaedong he woulda won that. Im a bigger fan of Jaedong then Flash but really, you can't deny that Flash is a absolute beast right now. 90% Winrate vs Toss in the OP really proves it.
ocho wrote: EDIT: NEVERMIND, THIS THING HAS APM TECHNOLOGY OMG
kemoryan
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Spain1506 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-19 15:13:31
April 19 2010 15:10 GMT
#115
On April 17 2010 09:32 OneOther wrote:
I mean it's unbelievable. The fact that he's doing that against many of other top progamers is...unreal.

Show nested quote +
On April 17 2010 09:30 MuffinDude wrote:
oov still did better than flash against vz =D

I want to give more credit to Flash because I feel that overall competition is tougher now than the times of oov's domination.


Why does Flash deserve more credit? Competition will always be tougher as time passes since the game evolves and new players benefit from the experience of the past, are mechanically better, etc., and as such, Flash's opponents are stronger than Oovs at his prime, but Flash has also benefited from all that. If you don't take this into account then there are no means to compare current players to past players as current player will always be overall better.
Freedom is a stranger
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
April 19 2010 15:14 GMT
#116
kemoryan, I think StylishVODs explains the case for Flash's dominance being more impressive in his post at the top of this page, so check that out.
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
April 19 2010 15:17 GMT
#117
It's more impressive because he's kicking more ass.
Remember Violet.
sidesprang
Profile Joined January 2009
Norway1033 Posts
April 19 2010 15:31 GMT
#118
On April 20 2010 00:10 kemoryan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2010 09:32 OneOther wrote:
I mean it's unbelievable. The fact that he's doing that against many of other top progamers is...unreal.

On April 17 2010 09:30 MuffinDude wrote:
oov still did better than flash against vz =D

I want to give more credit to Flash because I feel that overall competition is tougher now than the times of oov's domination.


Why does Flash deserve more credit? Competition will always be tougher as time passes since the game evolves and new players benefit from the experience of the past, are mechanically better, etc., and as such, Flash's opponents are stronger than Oovs at his prime, but Flash has also benefited from all that. If you don't take this into account then there are no means to compare current players to past players as current player will always be overall better.


QFT

you say what i wanted to say only better.

And on another note, Flash is definatly looking more bonjwa that jaedong or bisu have ever done. If he gets another title and advances further in MSL than jeadong i would definatly call him bonjwa.
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
April 19 2010 15:33 GMT
#119
If Flash wins both the upcoming OSL and MSL, I'll call him bonjwa.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
April 19 2010 15:43 GMT
#120
On April 20 2010 00:33 Zato-1 wrote:
If Flash wins both the upcoming OSL and MSL, I'll call him bonjwa.


QFT

Wish he has Boxer's charisma though. But Flash definitely isn't robotic.
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 25m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 210
SteadfastSC 148
Nina 55
PiLiPiLi 16
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 72
soO 58
Sexy 22
Icarus 6
Stormgate
PiGStarcraft300
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Fnx 783
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor171
Other Games
FrodaN2415
shahzam655
JimRising 394
C9.Mang0289
Trikslyr46
PPMD40
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1354
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv115
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 72
• musti20045 35
• davetesta23
• HeavenSC 22
• practicex 3
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki43
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler57
League of Legends
• Doublelift4782
• Lourlo192
Other Games
• Scarra728
Upcoming Events
Online Event
1h 25m
ShoWTimE vs MaxPax
SHIN vs herO
Clem vs Cure
SHIN vs Clem
ShoWTimE vs SHIN
SOOP
6h 25m
DongRaeGu vs sOs
CranKy Ducklings
7h 25m
WardiTV Invitational
8h 25m
AllThingsProtoss
8h 25m
SC Evo League
9h 25m
WardiTV Invitational
11h 25m
Chat StarLeague
13h 25m
PassionCraft
14h 25m
Circuito Brasileiro de…
15h 25m
[ Show More ]
Online Event
1d 1h
MaxPax vs herO
SHIN vs Cure
Clem vs MaxPax
ShoWTimE vs herO
ShoWTimE vs Clem
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 7h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 8h
AllThingsProtoss
1d 8h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 11h
Chat StarLeague
1d 13h
Circuito Brasileiro de…
1d 15h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Light
Wardi Open
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Soulkey
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL Code S
4 days
ByuN vs Rogue
herO vs Cure
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Classic vs Reynor
GuMiho vs Maru
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Nation Wars Season 2
PiG Sty Festival 6.0
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

StarCastTV Star League 4
JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSLPRO Spring 2025
2025 GSL S1
Heroes 10 EU
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

NPSL S3
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.