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how many hours of practice does it take to make ur fingers bleed like flash?
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On March 12 2010 17:10 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 16:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 02 2010 05:48 saltywet wrote:On March 02 2010 05:03 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 02 2010 04:28 Liquid`NonY wrote:On March 02 2010 04:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I do think that they exagerate, and I don't believe that most progamers practice 12 hours a day.
I am a musician, and I can tell you that practicing 10 hours in one day is basically spending all your time on it. Not going outside, not meeting friends. Practice, eat, take a shower, make one or two breaks not to become a zombi every two/three hours, and your day is over.
I know it is not the same, because playing a music instrument (except maybe piano, where at least you sit) is wayyyy more tiring and physical than playing starcraft, and you need much more breaks. Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day.
Now theses people play tournaments, they have to go there, to wait, they watch games, they chat on the internet and with friends at least a little bit, they do some gym, even a minimum, and sometimes they give interview. That makes a 12 hours on a daily basis straight impossible.
So I guess a good guess would be an average of 8 - 10 hours for the most crazy ones of actually playing the game. estro had 11 hours mandatory. b-team would get half a day off about once a week. a-team would sometimes get full days off and they'd also all travel to proleague matches. some people like nsp_action and say[join] would play during their break times so they'd play 12+ hours in a day it's my opinion that training that many hours isn't optimal. but it is the standard method in korea and it gets results What I was questionning is if theses people actually play 11 hours, or is that the time they are supposed to be there, also doing stuff like watching rep, discussing strategies, or taking breaks from time to time. My point was that if you put 11 hours practice in your schedule, you probably end up doing 8-9 hours, because you are a human and not a machine. Congratulation for your match, it was very entertaining and amazingly high level  lick lick, how does it taste lol Do you need to be a bitch? Everybody knows that when I don't like something, I say it, including to Nony. I thought the final was good I tell him when I see him. Shitty behaviour. On March 02 2010 06:03 Piy wrote:On March 02 2010 05:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 02 2010 04:26 WheelOfTime wrote:On March 02 2010 04:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I do think that they exagerate, and I don't believe that most progamers practice 12 hours a day.
I am a musician, and I can tell you that practicing 10 hours in one day is basically spending all your time on it.
Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day.
You fail quite hard. Clearly, you're not a very good musician, and you're pretty narrow-sighted for thinking "Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day". 24 hrs in a day, with 7 hrs going to sleep and 3 hrs for food/breaks/washroom, that's still 14 hours of practice everyday. Hell, I know music majors who practice their instruments 12 hrs and study for 4 hrs a day consistently. Just because you don't have enough willpower and are narrow-sighted, doesn't mean everyone else is. Sigh. If you don't know what you are talking about, don't make dumb judgements. I am not narrow sighted, and I am training in one of the best music school in Europe. So maybe I know better than you what I talk about. And I have been playing in top orchestras, with top players. Have you played, let say, viola, once in your life? No. So let me tell you, most musicians arounds me don't have the muscles and the physical endurance to practice more than 5-6 hours regularly. If not they just break their back. Because when you are a 1 metre 60 japanese lady, you have limits, physical limits. You can play in orchestra 9 hours a day, because in orchestra you don't actually play all the time and you are sit down. Personnal practice means playing often very intensely most of the time. I can practice uo to eught hours, and I am healthy. More than that, I fall apart. And someone like Auer, I know you have never heard about him was saying his students, like Heifetz or Milstein, not more than 5 hours violin a day, because more is destructive. If you have the muscles to practice a violin Brahms concerto or something like that 11 hours a day, that's good for you. I tell you that most people can't. Now my point that to practice 8 hours, you need to block 10 or 11 hours of youur time. Because you need breaks, even if you are superman, both for your body and your mind. And in a life, you need to do some other stuff. Like Shopping to eat, make your fucking lundery, go to college, and do administrrative stuff. And meet friends from time to time, take lessons in college, walk from one place to another, relax a little bit, cook, etc etc etc etc etc etc So unless you sleep 3 hours a day, practicing 12 hours on a regular basis is plain impossible. So please, just shut up instead of saying stupid thinks. You're just being deliberately ignorant now. Yes, sure. You know much better then me, who study in the Royal Academy of Music, the supposingly best music conservatoire of your country, how much do musician practice. Unless what you have heard by a friend of a friend or on the tv has more value than someone who has been spending the last 15 years doing music in a professional perspective. Jesus. On March 02 2010 07:49 Eiserne wrote:On March 02 2010 06:03 Piy wrote:On March 02 2010 05:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 02 2010 04:26 WheelOfTime wrote:On March 02 2010 04:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I do think that they exagerate, and I don't believe that most progamers practice 12 hours a day.
I am a musician, and I can tell you that practicing 10 hours in one day is basically spending all your time on it.
Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day.
You fail quite hard. Clearly, you're not a very good musician, and you're pretty narrow-sighted for thinking "Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day". 24 hrs in a day, with 7 hrs going to sleep and 3 hrs for food/breaks/washroom, that's still 14 hours of practice everyday. Hell, I know music majors who practice their instruments 12 hrs and study for 4 hrs a day consistently. Just because you don't have enough willpower and are narrow-sighted, doesn't mean everyone else is. Sigh. If you don't know what you are talking about, don't make dumb judgements. I am not narrow sighted, and I am training in one of the best music school in Europe. So maybe I know better than you what I talk about. And I have been playing in top orchestras, with top players. Have you played, let say, viola, once in your life? No. So let me tell you, most musicians arounds me don't have the muscles and the physical endurance to practice more than 5-6 hours regularly. If not they just break their back. Because when you are a 1 metre 60 japanese lady, you have limits, physical limits. You can play in orchestra 9 hours a day, because in orchestra you don't actually play all the time and you are sit down. Personnal practice means playing often very intensely most of the time. I can practice uo to eught hours, and I am healthy. More than that, I fall apart. And someone like Auer, I know you have never heard about him was saying his students, like Heifetz or Milstein, not more than 5 hours violin a day, because more is destructive. If you have the muscles to practice a violin Brahms concerto or something like that 11 hours a day, that's good for you. I tell you that most people can't. Now my point that to practice 8 hours, you need to block 10 or 11 hours of youur time. Because you need breaks, even if you are superman, both for your body and your mind. And in a life, you need to do some other stuff. Like Shopping to eat, make your fucking lundery, go to college, and do administrrative stuff. And meet friends from time to time, take lessons in college, walk from one place to another, relax a little bit, cook, etc etc etc etc etc etc So unless you sleep 3 hours a day, practicing 12 hours on a regular basis is plain impossible. So please, just shut up instead of saying stupid thinks. You're just being deliberately ignorant now. Actually, he's absolutely 100% completely correct. I'm a professional musician, studying classical cello at the university of North Texas. I can't practice more than 4 hours a day and I've been doing it for 12 years. If you know a music major who says they practice 12 hours a day, they are lying out of their asses. It's a fact. Sorry, but you are wrong. Coltrane and Heifetz may be able to practice 10-12 hours a day, but ask them what university they attended. Thanks. So you play viola...? If you tried violin you'd have to double that amount of practice. No, seriously... it really depends on what you are playing/doing. A pianist can never practice as little as 4-6 hours, atleast not when he is developing. I seriously doubt though that Coltrane could practice more than 6 hours because it would be too hard for his lips. Likewise I know some opera singers that say they can't practice more than a couple of hours in order to not destroy their voices. I study literature, and I read about 10 hours (+ courses) a day. That is ofc possible due to the passiv nature of what I am doing (I could do it alot more...). And I also wanted to point out that I think discussion over replays ofc must count in the practice time.. It's like excluding study of the partition for musicians.
I used to play the violin, though.
No, in fact my whole point was the following: you think it's very simple: 24 hours, 8 to sleep, 2 to eat and talke shower, 14 remaining, so you can do let's say 12.
I say by experience that it's more complicated than that, and that from what I am doing I have experienced that a musician who practice 8 hours a day is spending more or less his whole life practicing. Because there are looot of other stuff we do in a day, even if we "practice all day long".
It is very possible to practice 12 hours in one day, but to do 12 hours every day is near impossible (it means for example that if you can't do more than 8 one day because you have something else to do, whatever it is, you'll do 16 the next day, which is almost absurd). A team gamers for example are one day ouut of three or so in tournaments, that's a huuuge amount of time removed from their playing.
Reading is different, because you can read everywhere. You take the tube? For a violinist, for a pro gamer that's lost time. For you, that's reading time. But gosh, 12 hours a day is impressive.
I don't say that I am right, I've never been to a pro-gamer house. I say that it's what I know from experience.
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So IdrA, has anything changed from the Nony days or is the composition and time of the training still that rigid for progamers? Becuase if it is as seemingly harsh as he states, I am astounded you are able to keep up making posts in this site. I would be lying down on my bed sleeping after playing ~12 hrs a day.
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On March 14 2010 12:02 haster27 wrote:
So IdrA, has anything changed from the Nony days or is the composition and time of the training still that rigid for progamers? Becuase if it is as seemingly harsh as he states, I am astounded you are able to keep up making posts in this site. I would be lying down on my bed sleeping after playing ~12 hrs a day.
I doubt its 12 hours straight, probably have breaks (at least lunch break I would assume) so I'd say he posts during his breaks. Keep in mind they have to do (I think) 8 hours minimum (from the Hyunjoon show) he probably posts while he takes his breaks or probably.
Also, those talking about musicians, its insane how much effort some people will put to be the best in a competitive environment. As far as I'm concerned(I'm not expert), the music environment isn't competitive at higher levels and there's no prize money for "being the best".
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On March 14 2010 12:44 2WeaK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 12:02 haster27 wrote:
So IdrA, has anything changed from the Nony days or is the composition and time of the training still that rigid for progamers? Becuase if it is as seemingly harsh as he states, I am astounded you are able to keep up making posts in this site. I would be lying down on my bed sleeping after playing ~12 hrs a day. I doubt its 12 hours straight, probably have breaks (at least lunch break I would assume) so I'd say he posts during his breaks. Keep in mind they have to do (I think) 8 hours minimum (from the Hyunjoon show) he probably posts while he takes his breaks or probably. Also, those talking about musicians, its insane how much effort some people will put to be the best in a competitive environment. As far as I'm concerned(I'm not expert), the music environment isn't competitive at higher levels and there's no prize money for "being the best".
I guess its pretty equal to any other profession... The prize is a better job, sponsorship, prestige, not necessary "raw money"
Never doubt the human persistence in acheving some objetive. I can see someone practice 10-12 hour per day. It must be damn hard, but i think its possible.
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On March 14 2010 12:44 2WeaK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 12:02 haster27 wrote:
So IdrA, has anything changed from the Nony days or is the composition and time of the training still that rigid for progamers? Becuase if it is as seemingly harsh as he states, I am astounded you are able to keep up making posts in this site. I would be lying down on my bed sleeping after playing ~12 hrs a day. I doubt its 12 hours straight, probably have breaks (at least lunch break I would assume) so I'd say he posts during his breaks. Keep in mind they have to do (I think) 8 hours minimum (from the Hyunjoon show) he probably posts while he takes his breaks or probably. Also, those talking about musicians, its insane how much effort some people will put to be the best in a competitive environment. As far as I'm concerned(I'm not expert), the music environment isn't competitive at higher levels and there's no prize money for "being the best".
You get jobs for being the best though, so that might as well be money.
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On March 14 2010 13:18 lighter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 12:44 2WeaK wrote:On March 14 2010 12:02 haster27 wrote:
So IdrA, has anything changed from the Nony days or is the composition and time of the training still that rigid for progamers? Becuase if it is as seemingly harsh as he states, I am astounded you are able to keep up making posts in this site. I would be lying down on my bed sleeping after playing ~12 hrs a day. I doubt its 12 hours straight, probably have breaks (at least lunch break I would assume) so I'd say he posts during his breaks. Keep in mind they have to do (I think) 8 hours minimum (from the Hyunjoon show) he probably posts while he takes his breaks or probably. Also, those talking about musicians, its insane how much effort some people will put to be the best in a competitive environment. As far as I'm concerned(I'm not expert), the music environment isn't competitive at higher levels and there's no prize money for "being the best". You get jobs for being the best though, so that might as well be money.
My point was that its not as much of a competitive environment (Not much knowledge) I mean sure getting a sponsor/label to sign you will look for your skill, but it doesn't feel like such a competitive environment between the musicians (At least my friends don't make it feel that way)
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One of my friends played WoW for 12+ hours a day for like a month and he only stopped cause he ran out of money. So my point is 12 hours of training isn't all that infeasible.
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Osaka27157 Posts
I dont think you can compare playing WoW to training in professional BW.
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I wonder where people's beliefs start to break down regarding the progamer's regimen. Is it the number of hours, or the fact that it's devoted to a hobby that most us westerners would consider trivial? Or maybe both?
Being someone that's never been disciplined to study anything more than 2 hours at a time, I'm astonished at the commitment involved. And yet, when I think of the hours they are spending just playing against each other, one can't help but feel like it's wasted effort. Simply playing doesn't get anyone better, they have to hone a particular skill one at a time.
Also, if everyone is practicing 8+ hours, what does that say about those S class progamers? How much do they practice? Why are they so infinitely better than the rest.
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On March 14 2010 14:48 buickskylark wrote:
I wonder where people's beliefs start to break down regarding the progamer's regimen. Is it the number of hours, or the fact that it's devoted to a hobby that most us westerners would consider trivial? Or maybe both?
Being someone that's never been disciplined to study anything more than 2 hours at a time, I'm astonished at the commitment involved. And yet, when I think of the hours they are spending just playing against each other, one can't help but feel like it's wasted effort. Simply playing doesn't get anyone better, they have to hone a particular skill one at a time.
Also, if everyone is practicing 8+ hours, what does that say about those S class progamers? How much do they practice? Why are they so infinitely better than the rest.
Point is, Asian people are really hardcore workers. And they have very different philosophy of duty and achievement. I think the same than you: someone whi has spent all his time during one thinng, even if he does it amazingly, has wasted this time. But that's such a Westerner way of thinking. And that doesn't make you anymore an OSL winner.
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When you actually take a look on people who are really succesfull at something, there is always a part of their lives that they totally devoted to what they are doing. Stephen King was writing like 14hrs a day, Tiger Woods is practicing 10+hrs a day, every really good musician has a history of 10+ hrs every day practice for a period of years etc... If you take a look at progamers, they practice like this for 5-6 yrs. It´s really hard, but not impossible... (I myself have a experience with this hardocre practicing on musical instrument, so I know how insane it is. It totally changes you as a person, but you don´t really care because you can think only about what youre doing. You must love it or you burn out...)
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if you like what you are doing you can spend a lot of time doing it and still dont' mind it
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Its just like study man, when the final comes, many student study like 8-12 hours a day 
Not the best comparation, but you get the idea.
But i found that play BW straigh for 2-3 hours is more exhaust than study straigh for 2-3 hours
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On March 14 2010 21:58 Caphe wrote:Its just like study man, when the final comes, many student study like 8-12 hours a day Not the best comparation, but you get the idea. But i found that play BW staigh for 2-3 hours is more exhaust than studay straigh for 2-3 hours
I know what you mean ye, i get headaches if i play for more than 3 hours with game after game.
Thats why i don't really think it's better to overexert yourself like the koreans. It might be one of the reasons why koreans give up progaming when they hit their mid twenties. It's just to exerting to play 12 hours a day.
Oh and it isn't the same as working 8-12 hours a day, if you go by what nony said. When i worked 8 hours a day, I actually had a ton of time(i would reckon in total around 2 to 3 hours a day) where i just hang out and talk to my co-workers/have lunch/get a drink. Whereas these progamers focus 4 hours in a row.
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On March 14 2010 13:56 fearus wrote:
One of my friends played WoW for 12+ hours a day for like a month and he only stopped cause he ran out of money. So my point is 12 hours of training isn't all that infeasible.
How the hell do you run out of $16 per month?
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Well, citing from the show of one of the SS501's member becoming a Progamer, he stayed at MBCHero team to train, and there, they said that minimum they required for their players to practice is 7 hours, but usually they practice for 11 hours.
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Different teams have different required practice times, but generally you can expect pros to practice anywhere between 10 and 15 hours between their required time and optional extra practice they put in.
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in the national geographic documentary, it states that progamers do spend a LOT of time practicing
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I haven't read all the comments ... but how much of those 12 hours or practice are really in-game practice and not talking to teammates/coaches/fooling around while still in the practice room?
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EPT
