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On March 02 2010 07:49 Eiserne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 06:03 Piy wrote:On March 02 2010 05:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 02 2010 04:26 WheelOfTime wrote:On March 02 2010 04:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I do think that they exagerate, and I don't believe that most progamers practice 12 hours a day.
I am a musician, and I can tell you that practicing 10 hours in one day is basically spending all your time on it.
Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day.
You fail quite hard. Clearly, you're not a very good musician, and you're pretty narrow-sighted for thinking "Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day". 24 hrs in a day, with 7 hrs going to sleep and 3 hrs for food/breaks/washroom, that's still 14 hours of practice everyday. Hell, I know music majors who practice their instruments 12 hrs and study for 4 hrs a day consistently. Just because you don't have enough willpower and are narrow-sighted, doesn't mean everyone else is. Sigh. If you don't know what you are talking about, don't make dumb judgements. I am not narrow sighted, and I am training in one of the best music school in Europe. So maybe I know better than you what I talk about. And I have been playing in top orchestras, with top players. Have you played, let say, viola, once in your life? No. So let me tell you, most musicians arounds me don't have the muscles and the physical endurance to practice more than 5-6 hours regularly. If not they just break their back. Because when you are a 1 metre 60 japanese lady, you have limits, physical limits. You can play in orchestra 9 hours a day, because in orchestra you don't actually play all the time and you are sit down. Personnal practice means playing often very intensely most of the time. I can practice uo to eught hours, and I am healthy. More than that, I fall apart. And someone like Auer, I know you have never heard about him was saying his students, like Heifetz or Milstein, not more than 5 hours violin a day, because more is destructive. If you have the muscles to practice a violin Brahms concerto or something like that 11 hours a day, that's good for you. I tell you that most people can't. Now my point that to practice 8 hours, you need to block 10 or 11 hours of youur time. Because you need breaks, even if you are superman, both for your body and your mind. And in a life, you need to do some other stuff. Like Shopping to eat, make your fucking lundery, go to college, and do administrrative stuff. And meet friends from time to time, take lessons in college, walk from one place to another, relax a little bit, cook, etc etc etc etc etc etc So unless you sleep 3 hours a day, practicing 12 hours on a regular basis is plain impossible. So please, just shut up instead of saying stupid thinks. You're just being deliberately ignorant now. Actually, he's absolutely 100% completely correct. I'm a professional musician, studying classical cello at the university of North Texas. I can't practice more than 4 hours a day and I've been doing it for 12 years. If you know a music major who says they practice 12 hours a day, they are lying out of their asses. It's a fact. Sorry, but you are wrong. Coltrane and Heifetz may be able to practice 10-12 hours a day, but ask them what university they attended.
I study guitar and just..... you can't : ( . I mean , ONE COULD, but you can't. That is to say...John Coltrane was taking so much heroine and hallucinogenics that I'm pretty sure he could have looked in a mirror for 14 hours a day and still would have gotten better at sax.
I think that many of them do practice very hard! But in my musical experience I have met people who say they did a 6 hour day, but the 6 hours are not focused, and the same amount and more could have been done in maybe 3 hours. Plus, the it's always in a performer's (Musical, starcraft, or otherwise) best interest to have an illusion of impossibility. All the old music myths about people selling their souls to play very well, are comparable to saying Jaedong practices 18 hours a day. The idea is just cool . Though I wouldn't doubt if some of them have had peak days at these unimaginable lengths.
Music and Starcraft are not close in the slightest however, so this is all just a bunch of malarky.
Though I would love to see a study quantifying the physical exertion of an SC player to a guitarist, I feel the muscle groups are the most similar.
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On March 02 2010 08:21 neobowman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 08:17 rasers wrote:
why do u guys compare playing a music instrument to playing a computer game? TT
even i could play 10h+ wc3 or sc or whatever if i want 2~ For every day of your life?
how did u quote him and comment on it before his double post got submitted? lol = S
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On March 02 2010 08:28 nicoaldo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 08:21 neobowman wrote:On March 02 2010 08:17 rasers wrote:
why do u guys compare playing a music instrument to playing a computer game? TT
even i could play 10h+ wc3 or sc or whatever if i want 2~ For every day of your life? how did u quote him and comment on it before his double post got submitted? lol = S
He posted twice
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On March 02 2010 04:46 buickskylark wrote:
anyone know what they are doing for these number of hours? Can't be all just playing games. I don't see how you can learn like that.
I'd be interested to know this too. Sometimes I wonder if pros do things like, for example, making save games of standard TvZs around the time of the Terran push so that they can practice the late game without needing to go through the less-intense first 10 minutes over and over.
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most of us work 8 hrs a day...just couple extra hrs...what's the big deal?
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When WoW released I was playing 16+ hours a day for the 1st month and the 1st weeks I did about 40+ hours straight sessions every few days before going to sleep.
If I wanted to level a new hero I would quite easily grind 10+hours and order in some food. You do take short breaks/get up to get drinks food etc its not that hard to sit at a pc all day.
Starcraft I can see why playing 10+hours a day is fine when they say you can watch Vods and discuss replays too. Lets say an average game is 15mins, then 4 games an hour x 10hours is only 40 games. With breaks you could easily do that everyday if you didn't have to do a normal job/life routine.
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On March 02 2010 08:28 nicoaldo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 08:21 neobowman wrote:On March 02 2010 08:17 rasers wrote:
why do u guys compare playing a music instrument to playing a computer game? TT
even i could play 10h+ wc3 or sc or whatever if i want 2~ For every day of your life? how did u quote him and comment on it before his double post got submitted? lol = S
Magic?
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On March 02 2010 04:09 StarN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 04:07 buickskylark wrote:
9-10 hours? That is utterly insane. Most athletes don't train that much. difference is that there isn't as much physical strain with e-sports as opposed to sports. If you practice too much soccer or Cage Fighting then you get warn out that it becomes a detriment to your health. Any competitive activity that doesn't have that physical strain people generally tend to train longer hours and it's more dependent on how strong your mental focus is. Many Pianists I know at my music school practice 8-10 hours a day (even though that itself is very difficult on your wrists at a certain point)
You can work on mentality and visualization. You can actually become more explosive and better at lifts/activities pertaining to sports using visualization while in a relaxed state and you can work on breathing patterns, etc...which would enable a professional athlete to practice 8-10++ hours a day.
Also, watching film/reforming and examining a workout routine can take a lot of time.
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On July 04 2003 14:25 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
the foreigners (edit: I meant the ones in Korea, but of course it goes for the ones outside of it too) sure as hell don't play that much
not even close.
and I don't think others play 10 hours a day either.. I don't really see anyone being able to keep that up :/
10 hours every single day what the fuck, I honestly doubt they play that much =]
From the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=5333
Time changes, huh? 
The level of competitive starcraft is extreme, but I really don't think that sick amounts practice hours is the key to succes. You obviously need to practice to an extent where you're very comfortable with the game, but look at Flash who broke down by playing too much - That just can't be optimal.
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I'm pretty sure that the Pros don't do like 12 hours of straight up practicing, they probably do more stuff like anyalysing reps or watch VODs so they can watch their next opponent in order to make 'a snipe' or something. So along that, they probably practice like half or something (which is still a lot) to keep up with their APM. And they probably play UMS maps like Vulture Harrass, MnM control/Muta micro and stuff. Jaedong and Flash probably archieve game sense like no one did and their games are top shape so they are just practicing a lot to keep up the consistency.
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8748 Posts
UMS maps and offraces only during breaks
VOD watching sometimes during practice, but only if it's relevant to what you're doing. And nobody watched VODs at regular speed. Everyone would download them and open with the GOM player and watch at 2x or 3x
Sometimes people would obs games or go over replays, but this is really a minority of the time.
90% of practice time was playing. And usually there's very little break between games. Game ends, host another, start, repeat over and over until it's near time to break. If there's less than 15 mins til break, go watch someone else or look at a rep. Otherwise, host up go go go! The day is split into 3 sessions, 4 hour 4 hour 3 hour. I had a lot of 4 hour sessions where I'd find someone to play with and we would play each other non-stop for 4 hours. Crank out like 14-18 games
Comparing BW practice to casual gaming like WoW is fruitless. Constantly trying to play faster and smarter is much more taxing than repeating a pattern you learned in less than 5 minutes with a 99.9% success rate.
My ideal amount of practice time would be about 6-8 hours of actual playing and 2-3 hours of going over reps/vods/chatting about strategy, never exceeding 10 hours total in a day. And I'd have policies set up like if you're having a really bad day, stop playing and go over reps or work on a build in single player or something like that. Or just get away from the computer if it's that bad.
I'd never sacrifice sleep, never have caffeine, always exercise daily... Skipping exercise or sleep, or loading up on caffeine, are short-term fixes to make up for a bad schedule. If you have the luxury of time, like if you're a full time progamer, then long term efficiency is the most important thing. Short term burnouts happen constantly to people who overwork and long term burnout is a constant threat as well. If your tiredness carries on from one day to the next, then you're overworking. There can't be any accumulation of fatigue or you're gonna crash at some point and that'll be worse in the long run. So every morning you gotta start at 100%.
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Thanks nony for your informative post
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I want to know how much ACE practices
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On March 02 2010 10:35 KsBerzerk wrote:
I want to know how much ACE practices
Part of me thinks that Ace's practice schedule is still pretty brutal. I recall an interview where Boxer stated that having enough practice time was never the case, the lack of practice partners is the real problem.
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lol and how much do these b team progamers make?
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I have to disagree on the caffeine. If I get enough sleep and excercise and get a cup of coffee, I can usually play much, much better then without it. It helps to focus the attention on the game, rather then giving up easily when it starts getting out of hand. Without caffeine I just don't have that much of a beef with the other guy and will simply gg much faster.
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On March 02 2010 05:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 04:26 WheelOfTime wrote:On March 02 2010 04:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I do think that they exagerate, and I don't believe that most progamers practice 12 hours a day.
I am a musician, and I can tell you that practicing 10 hours in one day is basically spending all your time on it.
Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day.
You fail quite hard. Clearly, you're not a very good musician, and you're pretty narrow-sighted for thinking "Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day". 24 hrs in a day, with 7 hrs going to sleep and 3 hrs for food/breaks/washroom, that's still 14 hours of practice everyday. Hell, I know music majors who practice their instruments 12 hrs and study for 4 hrs a day consistently. Just because you don't have enough willpower and are narrow-sighted, doesn't mean everyone else is. Sigh. If you don't know what you are talking about, don't make dumb judgements. I am not narrow sighted, and I am training in one of the best music school in Europe. So maybe I know better than you what I talk about. And I have been playing in top orchestras, with top players. Have you played, let say, viola, once in your life? No. So let me tell you, most musicians arounds me don't have the muscles and the physical endurance to practice more than 5-6 hours regularly. If not they just break their back. Because when you are a 1 metre 60 japanese lady, you have limits, physical limits. You can play in orchestra 9 hours a day, because in orchestra you don't actually play all the time and you are sit down. Personnal practice means playing often very intensely most of the time. I can practice uo to eught hours, and I am healthy. More than that, I fall apart. And someone like Auer, I know you have never heard about him was saying his students, like Heifetz or Milstein, not more than 5 hours violin a day, because more is destructive. If you have the muscles to practice a violin Brahms concerto or something like that 11 hours a day, that's good for you. I tell you that most people can't. Now my point that to practice 8 hours, you need to block 10 or 11 hours of youur time. Because you need breaks, even if you are superman, both for your body and your mind. And in a life, you need to do some other stuff. Like Shopping to eat, make your fucking lundery, go to college, and do administrrative stuff. And meet friends from time to time, take lessons in college, walk from one place to another, relax a little bit, cook, etc etc etc etc etc etc So unless you sleep 3 hours a day, practicing 12 hours on a regular basis is plain impossible. So please, just shut up instead of saying stupid thinks.
Who are you again?
and school are you at?
As a fellow musician (can i assume fellow violinist?) I'm forced to agree with you. Practicing over 6 hours a day is pretty rare unless you're just trying to grind so you can say you practiced "x" number of hours. Pianists definitely practice the most and many of my pianist friends try to average like 6-8 hours a day. But 10-12 hours a day average is pretty ridiculous and, for me, unheard of.
you come off as rather douchebaggy tho
just sayin
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On March 02 2010 08:57 The6357 wrote:
most of us work 8 hrs a day...just couple extra hrs...what's the big deal?
The deal is that we are talking about actual practice time as opposed to time in spent in the practice house. I'm a ph.d student at one of the top schools and I am working my ass off most of the time. When I talk about study time I mean actual time I sepnt reading/solving problems/writing/thinking but not the time I spent in the library or my office. So if I say I studied 10 hours it means I spent around 13 hours at the university.
Now 13 hours at the uni means that I have pretty much no time for anything else. Sleep, personal hygiene,eating dinner after I come back home and travelling back and forth eats all of the remaining time.
So it is pretty big deal.
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Pratice makes perfect.
If you pratice more hours you will be much better ofc. If dont give enough time to your body, mind to recover you will never get results atleast like you want.
For me the perfect time of training is 7-10 hours, 8hours of sleep.
But this is relative and depends on many factors and to person to person. (ADN, Focus, Power of Will, Joy in what you do etc)
Thats why i dont belive in talent. I belive in hard work.
Edit: I forgot the most important word "SACRIFICE"
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On March 02 2010 04:07 buickskylark wrote:
9-10 hours? That is utterly insane. Most athletes don't train that much.
There is no "overtraining" in progaming in the same sense that there is in most sports. I guess there's going to be mental fatigue of course, but never to the extent that they physically have to stop practicing.
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EPT
