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The last line of Flash's coach is ambiguous so ignore it.
Before that he says:
We requested a replay, but the power outage made it so one couldn't be saved. After that, what happened was that we asked for specific evidence supporting their decision
They requested a replay, which couldn't be provided, so then they requested other evidence. Why would they request other evidence unless it had been explained to them that a replay had not been saved? The story definitely supports the idea that Flash was not lied to and that the coach was apologizing for Flash's misunderstanding.
In general I did not feel that Flash was whining or making excuses, only explaining subtly what a crappy playing environment this was. I think its unfortunate he felt so mentally defeated going into the 4th game. If I find fault with him at all it would be for that.
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Well Coach Lee Ji Hoon did say
After that, what happened was that we asked for specific evidence supporting their decision (to give Jaedong the decision victory), which was refused, so we requested a rematch
So I think Flash has a right to be angry. But I'm open to the idea that you feel his reaction was poor. Depends how pissed you are with KeSPA basically  . I think they're pretty crap. The Jaedong FA fiasco sealed them as evil in my mind. (on that note I'm on JD's parents and Flash's dads side about how they handled things).
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United States41911 Posts
On January 28 2010 01:21 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2010 00:48 Varbind wrote:
Twotoneterran,
If you read the original post, Flash's coach states that flash was incorrect about this fact. The Kespa officials never said there was a replay. Yes, the english is a bit misleading, but that is the only way it can be interpreted. I think you should read it again.
Specifically read this part of the post:
UPDATE: KT Coach Lee Ji Hoon says Flash misunderstood No dude. Twotoneterran is right. You're misreading the last line. "The Association did not say that there was no replay." If that was 'The Association did not say that there was a replay', then you'd be right. And maybe that was a mistype from Wax. But as it stands, he is clearly saying that the association did not tell the coaching team and Flash that they didn't have a replay when it was requested. The first line "I think there's a misunderstanding with Youngho (Flash) about KeSPA telling us there was a replay." can be interpreted as him correcting Flash's version that he was told by KeSPA that they'd watched a replay or it can be seen as him trying to put out a fire with a more general statement saying it was a 'misunderstanding'. That is why everyone is supportive and 'in-love' with Flashs attitude. If you're still unsure about the meaning of the last sentence from the coach try this: remove the double negatives and rereard it. So remove 'not' and 'no' - it now reads 'The Association did say that there was a replay'. Got it? They said there was a replay. Or they did not specifically tell the coaching staff that there wasn't a replay when asked for evidence. And they gave no further evidence. Hope this clears it up for you. And Kwark you are so incredibly biased here. I assumed MrHoon was referring to Magic-Phil and yourself. I know the point of posting your opinion isn't to win friends, but geez, your blatant "im right" attitude is making me an anti-fan without watching even one of your games. Let this whole thing go.
I find it very difficult to assume I'm wrong. If you'd like to explore the causes of my bias feel free. It may be that I play zerg, or that I'm a fan of Oz, or that Flash killed my parents in a batman style robbery. All of these could be factors that contribute to my uncontrollable hatred of Flash which spills out into logical posts quantifying Flash's income that game and how many units he could possible have had.
I'd be surprised if MrHoon was referring to me simply because I have never expressed any fandom of JaeDong beyond the usual appreciation of his very high skill level which I also have for Flash. I am a fan of BackHo and Movie and have posted about both of those at length.
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It's because when reading the live report thread pretty much every third post was by you contradicting someone or explaining your opinion again that Flash had no chance of coming back.
Great to know you think it's inconceivable you'd be wrong though - I got that on about your 40th post in the live report thread. And then had it confirmed when you 'recreated' the situation in map editor. That's what I mean, just except other people can have an opinion on this - including Flash himself. I also remember you telling other people they were basically wrong because every top level player agreed Flash had no chance of coming back. And yet IdrA didn't seem to agree with you...
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On January 28 2010 01:21 Subversive wrote:
"The Association did not say that there was no replay."
If you're still unsure about the meaning of the last sentence from the coach try this: remove the double negatives and rereard it. So remove 'not' and 'no' - it now reads 'The Association did say that there was a replay'. Got it? They said there was a replay. Or they did not specifically tell the coaching staff that there wasn't a replay when asked for evidence. And they gave no further evidence.
Hope this clears it up for you.
Your logic is incorrect, "not kespa_said(not x)" is not equivalent to "kespa_said(x)". If that was the case you can prove them saying anything you like.
Besides that, I think taking the story of one (emotional) party as proof of lying is somewhat biased. Drawing conclusions of their competence based on that is a stretch.As for the game, I'm leaning on that Bisu's predictions came through. JD was way more prepared for the final than Flash.
Edit: Flash was not only hurting from the power outage, he was also hurting from the feeling of the double titles slipping away from him.
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On January 28 2010 02:29 Soulfly wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2010 01:21 Subversive wrote:
"The Association did not say that there was no replay."
If you're still unsure about the meaning of the last sentence from the coach try this: remove the double negatives and rereard it. So remove 'not' and 'no' - it now reads 'The Association did say that there was a replay'. Got it? They said there was a replay. Or they did not specifically tell the coaching staff that there wasn't a replay when asked for evidence. And they gave no further evidence.
Hope this clears it up for you.
Your logic is incorrect, "not kespa_said(not x)" is not equivalent to "kespa_said(x)". If that was the case you can prove them saying anything you like. Besides that, I think taking the story of one (emotional) party as proof of lying is somewhat biased. Drawing conclusions of their competence based on that is a stretch. As for the game, I'm leaning on that Bisu's predictions came through. JD was way more prepared for the final than Flash.
Someone earlier thought that it read the opposite to it's meaning. I agree that the double negative doesn't imply a positive in that situation. Thanks for the nit-pick.
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Sub,
I think the ones who fucked up are the MSL people who caused the power failure. I have no issue with Kespa whatsoever in regards to this issue. I think they did a very good job in a very difficult situation.
You feel that Jaedong should have not been awarded the game I suppose? If so we will have to agree to disagree on that point. There is no reason to go back over all the countless points of that other thread.
However that point aside, even if I was upset about how Kespa handled the situation I would not have liked Flash's response. You shouldnt either really, by reacting in this manner he takes the heat off of everyone else by looking bad himself. He lost the moral high ground which is too bad.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Good that all players on this site said that the game was 99.999% won for Jaedong. More lies.
They thought they were on the safe side because MBC had replies and all and they wouldn't make a wrong decision. Usually a safe bet. When I watched the game I felt it was open, maybe favored for JD but far from decided, and when I was reading the comments of the experts here who said it was over 99% over I was really confused. Now that I have read Flash's opinion on all this I know whom I want to believe. That really disappoints me most, all these teamliquid "pros" lying about what they should think the gamestate was because they thought KesPa had the replay.
If any of you reads this: Ha Ha Ha. I will never ever again believe a word you say. You are just mediocre players with mediocre talent and too much time on your hand to practice micro and buildorders. But your strategical knowledge and feeling is as bad or even worse than mine or that of any other B-D player. I am incredibly disappointed by what I read on this page by people whose opinion I used to trust.
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They should have just restarted the whole match on a different date.
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On January 28 2010 03:26 Fenrax wrote:
Good that all players on this site said that the game was 99.999% won for Jaedong. More lies.
They thought they were on the safe side because MBC had replies and all and they wouldn't make a wrong decision. Usually a safe bet. When I watched the game I felt it was open, maybe favored for JD but far from decided, and when I was reading the comments of the experts here who said it was over 99% over I was really confused. Now that I have read Flash's opinion on all this I know whom I want to believe. That really disappoints me most, all these teamliquid "pros" lying about what they should think the gamestate was because they thought KesPa had the replay.
If any of you reads this: Ha Ha Ha. I will never ever again believe a word you say. You are just mediocre players with mediocre talent and too much time on your hand to practice micro and buildorders. But your strategical knowledge and feeling is as bad or even worse than mine or that of any other B-D player. I am incredibly disappointed by what I read on this page by people whose opinion I used to trust.
Just like you?
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Wow Fenrax, I dont even know what to say to your post other then blind trust is never a good thing.
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On January 28 2010 03:26 Fenrax wrote:
Good that all players on this site said that the game was 99.999% won for Jaedong. More lies.
They thought they were on the safe side because MBC had replies and all and they wouldn't make a wrong decision. Usually a safe bet. When I watched the game I felt it was open, maybe favored for JD but far from decided, and when I was reading the comments of the experts here who said it was over 99% over I was really confused. Now that I have read Flash's opinion on all this I know whom I want to believe. That really disappoints me most, all these teamliquid "pros" lying about what they should think the gamestate was because they thought KesPa had the replay.
If any of you reads this: Ha Ha Ha. I will never ever again believe a word you say. You are just mediocre players with mediocre talent and too much time on your hand to practice micro and buildorders. But your strategical knowledge and feeling is as bad or even worse than mine or that of any other B-D player. I am incredibly disappointed by what I read on this page by people whose opinion I used to trust.
Congratulations on completely misreading what people have been posting.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On January 28 2010 03:37 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2010 03:26 Fenrax wrote:
Good that all players on this site said that the game was 99.999% won for Jaedong. More lies.
They thought they were on the safe side because MBC had replies and all and they wouldn't make a wrong decision. Usually a safe bet. When I watched the game I felt it was open, maybe favored for JD but far from decided, and when I was reading the comments of the experts here who said it was over 99% over I was really confused. Now that I have read Flash's opinion on all this I know whom I want to believe. That really disappoints me most, all these teamliquid "pros" lying about what they should think the gamestate was because they thought KesPa had the replay.
If any of you reads this: Ha Ha Ha. I will never ever again believe a word you say. You are just mediocre players with mediocre talent and too much time on your hand to practice micro and buildorders. But your strategical knowledge and feeling is as bad or even worse than mine or that of any other B-D player. I am incredibly disappointed by what I read on this page by people whose opinion I used to trust. Congratulations on completely misreading what people have been posting.
No, you are completely misunderstanding what I was trying to say. The fact that our TL Pros DID NOT refer to the replay when they made their wrong 99.9% judgements is what makes me angry.
They were acting like they could see something in a game that a less experienced player could not see and people were calling everyone who had a different opinion on the match a little noob or a biased fanboy - how many people here have posted "come on, the game was over, everyone could see it". But now that we know from Flash's interview that the game was not decided there just was nothing that they could have seen.
So their judgement on the match was not based on what they saw but only hiding behind the KeSpa officials because they thought they had the replays, knew more and thus they talked alongside. They could have said "Kespa had the replays and they wouldn't give a win unless it is clear so it is safe to assume that JD was ahead". But instead they were bragging and talking BS about something that just wasn't there kinda like in "The Emperor's New Clothes" - "everyone can see that JD is 99.9% why can't you see it stupid little fanboy." Hahaha.
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Brunei Darussalam10 Posts
- Both fanbases are still arguing who would've won the game or not
▲ It really is a sad sight to see.
It really is. Jaedong won the set and that's it. Move on guys for Christ's sake and stop debating this shit into the ground. None of the threads about Flash or Jaedong are even readable because you guys keep on circlejerking about "what ifs".
Anyway, the coach comment is interesting in the sense that to me it doesn't do anything but confirm the obvious that there was no replay to make the decision.
I figure Flash thought BECAUSE they chose to give Jaedong the game within of a period of less than 5 minutes, and that Flash thought he was in a winnable position, they had a replay of the game to see what Flash couldnt. When they told him "Welp no we don't have a replay", Flash thought he was lied to. A bit silly perhaps but definitely within the realms of how a 17 year old kid would deal with the situation.
Either that or/and KT is simply trying to make up with Kespa, which is probably the main intention of the coach's comment. Aren't these corporations really, really closely linked to Kespa? If so it wouldn't surprise me one bit that he's just trying to smooth over the situation by saying "its simply a misunderstanding lol".
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You haven't read all the threads at all, did you? It was clear to everyone (maybe except you) that there is no replay way before this interview. And nobody (at least nobody with an actual clue about BW changed their opinion based on this)
And are you really saying you are the little kid who is speaking out the truth because you are not afraid to look stupid? (what you are doing by the way)
And yea, flash said so - in an interview where he haven't really calmed down and is still pissed - the game MUST have been undecided. More blind fanboyism please.
Are you, by any chance, Johnny B.Goode from BW.de?
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On January 28 2010 04:01 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2010 03:37 koreasilver wrote:On January 28 2010 03:26 Fenrax wrote:
Good that all players on this site said that the game was 99.999% won for Jaedong. More lies.
They thought they were on the safe side because MBC had replies and all and they wouldn't make a wrong decision. Usually a safe bet. When I watched the game I felt it was open, maybe favored for JD but far from decided, and when I was reading the comments of the experts here who said it was over 99% over I was really confused. Now that I have read Flash's opinion on all this I know whom I want to believe. That really disappoints me most, all these teamliquid "pros" lying about what they should think the gamestate was because they thought KesPa had the replay.
If any of you reads this: Ha Ha Ha. I will never ever again believe a word you say. You are just mediocre players with mediocre talent and too much time on your hand to practice micro and buildorders. But your strategical knowledge and feeling is as bad or even worse than mine or that of any other B-D player. I am incredibly disappointed by what I read on this page by people whose opinion I used to trust. Congratulations on completely misreading what people have been posting. No, you are completely misunderstanding what I was trying to say. The fact that our TL Pros DID NOT refer to the replay when they made their wrong 99.9% judgements is what makes me angry. They were acting like they could see something in a game that a less experienced player could not see and people were calling everyone who had a different opinion on the match a little noob or a biased fanboy - how many people here have posted "come on, the game was over, everyone could see it". But now that we know from Flash's interview that the game was not decided there just was nothing that they could have seen. So their judgement on the match was not based on what they saw but only hiding behind the KeSpa officials because they thought they had the replays, knew more and thus they talked alongside. They could have said "Kespa had the replays and they wouldn't give a win unless it is clear so it is safe to assume that JD was ahead". But instead they were bragging and talking BS about something that just wasn't there kinda like in "The Emperor's New Clothes" - "everyone can see that JD is 99.9% why can't you see it stupid little fanboy." Hahaha.
Congratulations on completely misreading what people have been posting.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On January 28 2010 04:24 Keniji wrote:
You haven't read all the threads at all, did you? It was clear to everyone (maybe except you) that there is no replay way before this interview. And nobody (at least nobody with an actual clue about BW changed their opinion based on this)
And are you really saying you are the little kid who is speaking out the truth because you are not afraid to look stupid? (what you are doing by the way)
And yea, flash said so - in an interview where he haven't really calmed down and is still pissed - the game MUST have been undecided. More blind fanboyism please.
First of all, I am not a fanboy, I went to the finals neutral wanting to see a good game. And yes, I did not know there was no replay before I read this thread. I made two mistakes: a) to believe that KeSpa has a replay when everyone says that KeSpa has a replay and b) to not check this site 24/7. a) won't happen again but about b) I can't do anything.
Fortunately that does not change my point at all. So you say the game was decided and you say that FlaSh was lying in what he says is the only interview he will ever give on this event and that he was inventing test partners who were telling him “You were at a decent situation” while practicing after the finals. And I am the blind one here? But I guess if you think FlaSh is lying I can't convince you otherwise because then you can just say that everything I write is a lie.
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damn, flash just spoiled the OSL finals for me... ^_^
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On January 28 2010 03:26 Fenrax wrote:
Good that all players on this site said that the game was 99.999% won for Jaedong. More lies.
They thought they were on the safe side because MBC had replies and all and they wouldn't make a wrong decision. Usually a safe bet. When I watched the game I felt it was open, maybe favored for JD but far from decided, and when I was reading the comments of the experts here who said it was over 99% over I was really confused. Now that I have read Flash's opinion on all this I know whom I want to believe. That really disappoints me most, all these teamliquid "pros" lying about what they should think the gamestate was because they thought KesPa had the replay.
If any of you reads this: Ha Ha Ha. I will never ever again believe a word you say. You are just mediocre players with mediocre talent and too much time on your hand to practice micro and buildorders. But your strategical knowledge and feeling is as bad or even worse than mine or that of any other B-D player. I am incredibly disappointed by what I read on this page by people whose opinion I used to trust.
To state the obvious, none of the people providing analysis demonstrating that Jaedong had a won game thought that there was a replay, nor were relying on a replay. Furthermore its idiotic to think anyone was hiding behind KesPa's decision, as the easy thing to do is rip and insult the officials for their being a screw up in the first place, rather than to agree with them.
On what do you base your irrelevant personal attacks that these people are mediocre players? Are you challenging Kwark to a game, I imagine he will be happy to play you.
Regardless of who made the analysis, how does that challenge the analysis itself? Do you have some new insight demonstrating that the economy wasn't heavily in Jae Dong's favor? Have people overlooked an obvious way for Flash to defend his mineral only?
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[/QUOTE]
Fortunately that does not change my point at all. So you say the game was decided and you say that FlaSh was lying in what he says is the only interview he will ever give on this event and that he was inventing test partners who were telling him “You were at a decent situation” while practicing after the finals. And I am the blind one here? But I guess if you think FlaSh is lying I can't convince you otherwise because then you can just say that everything I write is a lie.[/QUOTE]
It does not strike you as possible that perhaps people were being a bit kind to Flash since he just got beat in the finals?
"Gee Flash, you really got your ass handed to you on that heavily Terran favored map. I would have kicked the power cord out to, ha ha!" You expect people to say something like this to Flash instead?
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EPT
