• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:33
CET 04:33
KST 12:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1828
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns
Tourneys
SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced WardiTV Winter Cup
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2054 users

The Ten Dragons

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 14 15 16 Next All
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-09 01:22:10
January 09 2010 01:00 GMT
#1
An Advanced Statistical Study of Protoss Rankings:

Abstract:
In the past, uncertainty has gripped the Starcraft community regarding the ranking of Protoss players in terms of performance. A popular ranking system, known as the "Six Dragons Theory" has exhibited considerable popularity since its inception. Herein I discuss an enhanced player rating system based on recent performances in SL and PL.

Introduction:
With the rise of the swarm and the rapid decline of the Protoss race, it has become increasingly difficult to determine whether or not Protoss players have fallen from the high point era now known as the era of the Six Dragons. These changes, sparked by new imbalanced maps for Zerg and Terran, have amplified the fall of the Protoss Race. Not surprisingly, Protosses have been suffering mightily at the hands of the Swarm as of late, constantly missing from Starleagues as of late. The question then may be asked: Which Protoss players constitute the new "Dragons" and shall represent the Protoss race for years to come?

With the aim of casting some light on the current Protoss situation, this article offers an overview of the complexity of ranking Protoss players and considers the diversity of success from various aspects of progaming.

Historical Background:
In the early days of progaming, Protoss players have always experienced hardships when it came to success. Outside of a select few gamers, namely Garimto, Reach, Kingdom, Nal_rA, and Anytime, the Protoss race had little to no hope. With just 6 Starleague titles in a span from 2000 to 2006, Protosses had experienced little success in Starleagues, only to look on and watch Terran and Zerg bonjwas Boxer, Oov, Savior, and Nada combine for a whopping 18 titles alone.

However, even with their limited success, Protosses persevered onwards, finally gaining recognition as Bisu, the Revolutionist burst onto the scene and shocked then bonjwa Savior in the Gom TV MSL. Forever changing the way Protosses played against Zergs, the Protoss race experienced it's first stint of success, with Bisu and Stork leading the way.

In 2008, Protosses would experience great success in the ClubDay Online MSL, Incruit 2008 OSL, and GOM Season 1 Starleagues. For the first time in the ClubDay MSL, all four semifinalists were Protoss players (1). As the Protoss race ascended to the top, Koreans would soon deem 6 of these select Protoss players as the "Six Dragons" (2).

Why Only 6?:
The volatile matchup of Protoss vs Zerg has always been an Achilles Heel for Protoss players. Historically, Zergs have won over 53% of games vs Protoss players, and has generally been considered an easy matchup for Zergs. Mediocre zergs such as Jju have even been quoted saying, "ZvP is easy. I can beat anyone at ZvP" in the past. After statistical surveys compiled by Korean netizens, the 6 dragons (Best, Bisu, Kal, Stork, Free, Jangbi) were selected by their >50% win rates in PvZ at the time along weighted along with impressive win ratios in their other two matchups. Therefore it is not surprising that other up and coming Protosses of the time such as Tempest and Backho were left out of the mix.

Does this theory still hold?:
Fast forward a year and a half later to mid 2009. The era of the Six Dragons has come and gone. None of the dragons have consistently made it to even the latter stages of Starleagues as of recent, not to mention winning a Starleague. With the popularity of the 3 hatch spire to 5 hatch hydralisk build, Zergs have been completely dominating almost every Protoss player out there. Thus, the old Korean statistical survey holds little to no credibility anymore, thus necessitating the need for a new ranking system of Protoss players.

Proposal for Dragon Requirements:
Based upon data gathered and regressed (holding all else constant), we have concluded that in order to qualify as a dragon, one:

Must have at least one Round of 16 appearance in either the MSL or OSL
OR
Must have a 100% win percentage in Ace matches in Proleague
OR
Must currently be within 90 points of their ELO peak
OR
Must have a career win % of greater than 65%.

However, just like in ancient Norse mythology, there can only be 10 dragons at a time.

Statistical Analysis :
Therefore from our proposal, we compile a list of Dragons, before and after. All stats from TLPD (3).

Current "Dragons":
Bisu, Best, Free, Jangbi, Stork, Kal

New Dragons:
Best - Ro16 MSL
Free - 100% win rate in Ace Matches
Jangbi - Ro16 MSL
Stork - Ro16 OSL
Kal - Ro16 MSL and 100% win rate in Ace Matches
Movie (New!)- Ro16 OSL
Stats (New!)- Ro16 MSL
Guemchi (New!) - Ro16 MSL
Pure (New!)- Ro16 OSL
Violet (New!)- 100% win rate in Ace Matches

Slain Dragons:
Bisu - Fulfills none of the requirements

Ramifications:
Contrary to popular belief, Bisu is no longer among the best of the Protoss race. With lackluster Proleague results and his disappearance from the latest Starleagues, Bisu has fallen from his high and mighty throne. His fall from grace is evident by the large difference between his current ELO and his ELO peak (5). A new breed of dragons (Movie, Stats, Guemchi, Pure, and Violet) have now come to take his place. One might question the values set as the dragon requirements. Yes, the requirements could have been modified so that Bisu would be included in the Dragon list. However, with slight modifications, even mediocre Protosses such as Horang2 and Backho would have been included in the list of dragons.

Closing Comments:
The analysis presented in this article may be debated by many people. The first of many arguments that may arise would be the "But Bisu is still good in PL argument!". Rest assured, while Bisu has been winning games, he has also been losing many and has yet to show spectacular Proleague results as Dragons Violet, Free, and Kal have. Each of them holds a 100% win ratio in Ace matches, proving that they are good enough to be sent out for Ace matches and are good enough to win them on a consistent basis. Bisu has yet to show these results and has even been struggling against rookies such as Haksoo and Turn. Even more damning, he recently dropped a game to Frozean (4). None of the dragons named by this study has ever dropped a televised game to Cuteangel. While a certain simplification of the dragon standards may be beneficial, it is imperative that we keep a system that does not encompass a majority of the sample size in the study.

Sources:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=109569
(1): http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/3MSL/FinalsBracket.png
(2): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84010&currentpage=All
(3): http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/
(4): http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/34931_Bisu_vs_FrOzean/vod
(5): http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/
God Bless
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
January 09 2010 01:04 GMT
#2
Being a dragoon sounds too badass for Guemchi, Pure, and Stats.

Sure they may meet the requirements, but I don't think any of these 3 players were ones who jumped into peoples heads as they were going into this thread.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
yhnmk
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada630 Posts
January 09 2010 01:05 GMT
#3
no.
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-09 01:07:06
January 09 2010 01:05 GMT
#4
SIX DRAGONS ONLY

YOU NO GET TO CHANGE TO TEN

Lol at slain dragon Bisu keke
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
banana
Profile Joined January 2009
Netherlands1189 Posts
January 09 2010 01:05 GMT
#5
Oh wow I can forsee some rage from bisu fanboys comming.

Nice stats, not sure if you can consider them dragons in not so favorable protoss age at this moment. If you'd consider performance and appearance wise, Stork - Kal - Movie and Violet are probably the better players of this early season.
Thegilaboy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2018 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-09 01:29:21
January 09 2010 01:06 GMT
#6
Holy shit, this looks like it was kind of written in APS format, and for that alone I love this thread

Of course, as a Bisu fan, and the fact that this seems pretty arbitrary, I can't support anything else about this
domane
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada1606 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-09 01:07:46
January 09 2010 01:07 GMT
#7
I disagree about Stats, Guemchi, and Pure. But I agree Violet and Movie definitely deserve your hype.
Kouda
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States2205 Posts
January 09 2010 01:08 GMT
#8
Free lost to AnyTime in a ACE Match >_>;; unless we're talking about Round 2 only..
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
January 09 2010 01:08 GMT
#9
The requirements you set seem pretty arbitrary. What's the point of calling those 10 players dragons? They just happen to be Protoss players that made it into starleagues + Violet.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
January 09 2010 01:09 GMT
#10
I approve.

Mainly because the only protoss I care about is Stork.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
prototype.
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada4215 Posts
January 09 2010 01:10 GMT
#11
lol bisu a slain dragon?

i think we should wait a bit longer before we remove bisu from the list of dragons

and the additions to the dragons because of ro16 appearance just sounds silly
( ・´ー・`)
ProoM
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Lithuania1741 Posts
January 09 2010 01:12 GMT
#12
Oh my, I forsee the upcoming bisu fanboyism rage. Dont be surprised if one day you will find yourself hunged on a tree for this!
IMBA - International Mountain Bicycling Association.
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
January 09 2010 01:13 GMT
#13
On January 09 2010 10:12 ProoM wrote:
Oh my, I forsee the upcoming bisu fanboyism rage. Dont be surprised if one day you will find yourself hunged on a tree for this!

Uh... I'm more annoyed at stupid comments like yours than at what Roffles put in his OP. I'm not pissed off at his OP at all actually lol
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
huameng
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States1133 Posts
January 09 2010 01:14 GMT
#14
Why would bisu fanboys get mad? If I make a post "guys, fuck what you heard, flash SUCKS" no one is going to take me seriously. Just like no one is going to take this arbitrary declaration of "10 dragons" seriously.
skating
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-09 01:17:15
January 09 2010 01:15 GMT
#15
You seem to mean well and all, but no. Defining "dragon" like this makes light of what the six dragons did and its also completely meaningless.

The 6 dragons earned that name because Protoss has historically been the weakest race in terms of performance in individual leagues, but suddenly you had six Protoss players showing an all around high skill level and displaying strong performance in the individual leagues to the point where 6 Protoss players made the KeSPA top 10 rankings:

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/kespa_ranking.php?year=2008&month=12&action=Update

This is why they are the six dragons. And there can only ever be six dragons because "dragon" isn't a title; "Six Dragons" is the title. It is a title given to a generation of protoss players who changed the way we think about balance.

These new rising stars like Movie and Violet will perhaps earn such a title for themselves in time, or perhaps not, but in all likelihood they will not be called "dragons" but something different instead.

Edit: Also, I'd like to point out that the dragon title had nothing to do with Norse mythology. Ever.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
January 09 2010 01:15 GMT
#16
Stop using the term Dragons geez. I like Bisu, Stork, JangBi, KaL and all but man calling them dragons just make it sound so cheezy. I like the 3 Protoss Kings or Neo Protoss Kings. But at the moment, the top Protoss players are Stork, KaL, Movie and Violet. The others are slacking off.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-09 01:20:16
January 09 2010 01:18 GMT
#17
With the popularity of the 3 hatch spire to 5 hatch hydralisk build, Zergs have been completely dominating almost every Protoss player out there.


Even more damning, he recently dropped a game to Frozean (4). None of the dragons named by this study has ever dropped a televised game to Cuteangel.


Therefore it is not surprising that other up and coming Protosses of the time such as Tempest and Backho were left out of the mix.


However, even with slight modifications, even mediocre Protosses such as Horang2 and Backho would have been included in the list of dragons.


hahaha. I call troll!
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-09 01:22:30
January 09 2010 01:19 GMT
#18
+ Show Spoiler +
If we do an analysis of the original 6 dragons, we see that they were considered dragons because they were just that good.

They all had in common:
- 60%+ win percentage for a few months
- Best or second best player on their respective teams
- Were in the top 10 kespa rankings
- Were in the top 15 ELO rankings
- Were in the power rank

The only Protoss players right now that still have those qualities are Stork, Kal and Movie (11th and 12th on Kespa, whatever).

Nvm, seems like OP is just making a point about arbitrary titles.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
January 09 2010 01:21 GMT
#19
On January 09 2010 10:15 Mortality wrote:
Edit: Also, I'd like to point out that the dragon title had nothing to do with Norse mythology. Ever.

No, actually, dragons are everywhere in Norse mythology.
God Bless
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
January 09 2010 01:21 GMT
#20
Those are really arbitrary requirements ...
1 2 3 4 5 14 15 16 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 27m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
CosmosSc2 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 710
Shuttle 151
GoRush 43
Hm[arnc] 19
ZergMaN 16
Icarus 5
Dewaltoss 4
Dota 2
monkeys_forever245
NeuroSwarm74
League of Legends
C9.Mang0432
Counter-Strike
summit1g7583
Foxcn207
minikerr35
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox596
Mew2King55
Other Games
JimRising 692
Maynarde129
ViBE113
ZombieGrub22
Liquid`Ken4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2756
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 109
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Mapu4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5057
• Scarra1807
• Lourlo518
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
6h 27m
OSC
8h 27m
Jumy vs sebesdes
Nicoract vs GgMaChine
ReBellioN vs MaNa
Lemon vs TriGGeR
Gerald vs Cure
Creator vs SHIN
OSC
1d 8h
All Star Teams
1d 22h
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
All Star Teams
2 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-14
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.