EPTI think Elky or Grrrr
Best ever non-korean gamer?
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Zoom
1111 Posts
I think Elky or Grrrr | ||
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Anal_Ripper
Russian Federation1233 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
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forb
Norway218 Posts
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FroZZoR
China925 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
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Anal_Ripper
Russian Federation1233 Posts
UPDATE: just checked the article section and it says that he was playing protoss in that OGN (that's SKY 2001 btw). sorry, my bad  | ||
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luminosity_
Canada378 Posts
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-zX-Ravage-
United States187 Posts
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CuVieRy
Canada138 Posts
i mean elky  | ||
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Yarertz
Djibouti1891 Posts
and BM | ||
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RickJSanchez
United States1585 Posts
USA= Froz(t) not his zerg Wizard(p)(come back for 2k4 plz?) Netherland: Nazgul(p) Germany: Fisheye(p) not his terran Norway: Sven Australia: Leg(p) Canada: Grrrr(p) Bulgaria: [o]Mr.X France: Elky(t) not his random Poland: Blackman(z) Sys(p) (although i like Draco better) Spain: Suker(t) Mexico: Blast(p) Romania: Radu Italy: Cafone(p) Brasil: Hellghost Puerto Rico: Doomer(t) (although i dont consider it a gaming country) Sweden: Saft(p) China: Pj Russia: not familiar with their gamers, they just lag. Portugal: Carls Denmark: Arch im sure i missed plenty of small countries, but i didnt name them for a reason. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
2.) Slayer 3.) Elky 4.) NTT 5.) Maynard lots of others tho, such as nazzy and sven | ||
Emlary
China3334 Posts
:O | ||
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Jamers
Israel1327 Posts
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MrEd
Australia357 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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Abang_Zealot
Indonesia866 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
Skillwise Slayer I suppose, he was really really good in his prime. Of course anyone ever to play in korean leagues which means ElkY and Ashmodey. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13295 Posts
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Anal_Ripper
Russian Federation1233 Posts
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amat
United States1788 Posts
Grrrr... is without a doubt the best non-korean ever, and maybe second best including kors (Boxer). | ||
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
 well then I guess I have to say it myself -_- WiLLEt is the best player outside korea ever kekekek as honorable mentions... leg giyom mondragon kenka@his prime naz and ret~~ | ||
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chicken`
Germany3478 Posts
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ejai63
United States2101 Posts
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karate
Norway120 Posts
On January 18 2004 12:12 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: Best of all time I think Grrr. Remeber Grrr has always been a top player, ever since season 1 ladder. Skillwise Slayer I suppose, he was really really good in his prime. Of course anyone ever to play in korean leagues which means ElkY and Ashmodey. I think slayer played in some leagues too after kbk , played from home or something. So besides elky and grrr, slayer is the greatest. | ||
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Kacas
Brazil3143 Posts
elky slayer | ||
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Villaret
Albania222 Posts
Grrr, elky, Slayer! Now if we see it from the global stage of pro gaming, then guillaume gets the palm for his incredible longevity in Pro gaming business considering he isnt practicing more than a hour or two a week since 3 years. And its no joke. Now if you want some right opinion, atm, the best non korean player is without anydoubt elky. You guys watch too much replay bullshit. All counts are achievements and facts. Now any ahievement outside korea is strictly bullshit. Not to harm you guys, but thats fucking true. Maynard did never win anything over korea, but he was sponsored. NTT did good at first wcg. Slayer won KBK. Smuft did good things in leagues and on TV, but not that much, mainly because he didnt stay such a long period over there. Need to talk about everlast? well for the info, he one won lan tournament in korea some 4 years ago.. not some big achievement, but still. ( even tho at this time everybody use to suck in korea. Asmodey never won anything either, he just got fucked up by OGN that only needed some foreign dude for a short perdiod cuz guillaume was for 5 month, the only foreign guy on tv when comming to the sc thingy, so they needed one or more fresh foreign guys. Elky took the spot as the new pro gaming foreign player, and this because of his achievements. Now lets face the facts, here the two players u gotta dterminate whos the best between : Grrrr, not giving here the detail of achievements, but he prolly one something close to 300 000 USD throughough all his bw career. ( counting older tournaments, before when you had cash for sc outside korea) ( including commercials, sponsorships, benefits etc...)Now thats quite an impressive result, but this didnt come at once, and he mostly spended the money living over there in a very nice way, and he didnt win anything since two years. Now elky, who gets close to 70 000 or 80 000 usd with some 2 years activity over there, actually no foreign player ever did that much over there, but guillaume. Thing is that elky arrived in Korea at a time where the gaming level was higher than it ever was before. He came after the "boxer" transition, that changed everything in the SC landscape over there. So considering it was prolly 10x times harder for elky to make money than grrrr when he came there at first, we could say that elky gets to the first foreign pro gamer place ever. About the sadest lost bw had in his existence, lets mention ABS-Slayer and Saft, prolly the two best foreign players that ever were around, but that never got to korea to persue it. So sad. | ||
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Villaret
Albania222 Posts
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
top 8 at wcg2001. | ||
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Villaret
Albania222 Posts
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SpringWind
China231 Posts
But I like Pj,because we are both Chinese. | ||
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uLti-ScT-
Germany104 Posts
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DooMeR
United States1519 Posts
The man takes on boxer with his 2nd race and give him 3 GGs. (even tho he loses :{) | ||
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On January 18 2004 16:20 DooMeR wrote: [GG99]Slayer forever will be #1 in my eyes! The man takes on boxer with his 2nd race and give him 3 GGs. (even tho he loses :{) "2nd best race"? He was just jet-lagged and would've raped him otherwise, + listing Elky above Slayer is just pathetic, Slayer acheived quite a lot for the short time he was active, and he could've gone to korea and started playing for any proteam he wanted but said no =] | ||
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Pacifist
Israel1683 Posts
On January 18 2004 15:57 uLti-ScT- wrote: [Edit Random Joke Here]HovZ[/Edit Random Joke Here] lol | ||
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aLuMetTe
Canada35 Posts
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Honk2000
Germany698 Posts
On January 18 2004 15:32 mdb wrote: There is a player who was non-korean and was twice top 16 at KBK.Also top 8 at wcg2001. i guess it is mr.x | ||
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Stormich
Croatia336 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
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ky[Z]
China1730 Posts
On January 18 2004 11:16 RickJSanchez wrote: imo: USA= Froz(t) not his zerg Wizard(p)(come back for 2k4 plz?) Netherland: Nazgul(p) Germany: Fisheye(p) not his terran Norway: Sven Australia: Leg(p) Canada: Grrrr(p) Bulgaria: [o]Mr.X France: Elky(t) not his random Poland: Blackman(z) Sys(p) (although i like Draco better) Spain: Suker(t) Mexico: Blast(p) Romania: Radu Italy: Cafone(p) Brasil: Hellghost Puerto Rico: Doomer(t) (although i dont consider it a gaming country) Sweden: Saft(p) China: Pj Russia: not familiar with their gamers, they just lag. Portugal: Carls Denmark: Arch im sure i missed plenty of small countries, but i didnt name them for a reason. pj havnt accomplished much in big tourny. i'd say cq2000 is the best overall bw gamer in china. | ||
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
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GoDHovZ
United States1869 Posts
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Muhweli
Finland5328 Posts
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karelen
Sweden2407 Posts
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Dick
United States717 Posts
nowadays smuft and blackman could come up saft maybe in his prime | ||
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NoNameLoser
United States1508 Posts
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Ryu
Greece163 Posts
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Zoom
1111 Posts
On January 18 2004 18:14 Ryu wrote: Are all you guys just stupid? It's just Fisheye[pG] no doubt just think what he did at wcg... lol, i think he got lucky, isnt leg, rek, and naz better protoss then fish? | ||
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S(O)ME(O)NE
Canada473 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On January 18 2004 18:14 Ryu wrote: Are all you guys just stupid? It's just Fisheye[pG] no doubt just think what he did at wcg... Omg ya we are stupid look Fisheye came 2nd at wcg grrr is only the only foreigner ever to win a StarLeague and a KoK event and he was also a part of progaming from the very beginning. Grrr was the boxer of his time. And on a side note, everlast was never very good, he basicly came to korea and figured out he was rape victim. | ||
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CDS)Dark
Czech Republic2 Posts
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ApollyoN
United States1297 Posts
TESTIE! | ||
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After)Eight(
Germany502 Posts
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
do you guys know how he got to ogn??? he had his russian friends in a pc cafe help him get there. He was getting raped by ds-brave then he decides to disconnect, and gets a regame somehow. asmodey is suck. best foreigner ever is grrrr, 2nd elky, 3rd slayer. honorable mention to NTT for his performance in wcgc? honorable mention to maynard for being the best player in the world for the first year and a half of this game, and for going to korea early on. honorable mention to leg/naz. both went to korea and did fairly good things (naz making challenge league, leg sweeping toona, playing on a pro team) | ||
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_liquid_
France98 Posts
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_liquid_
France98 Posts
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FBS1
United Kingdom875 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
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StuFFofLegenDS
United States245 Posts
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IntoTheClan
Afghanistan207 Posts
Chinese gamers not included. I think this are the four non korean gamers who made the most cash with bw. And thats what counts. Maybe Nazgul earned more than fisheye but no other. Not Sven not saft not anyone i remember so far. I think i've read something like that. Grrrr = Around 300000 $ Elky = Around 80000 $ Fisheye = Aroung 25000 $ ( With computer stuff and other prizes included ) Slayer = Around 15000 $ ? He won KBK and of course some other shit NTT = Wcg 2nd, wasnt he ? If i would chose the Best non korean gamer ever with skills and dominating and game style, not only with cash my opinion is like that : Grrrr Slayer hasudrone Fisheye Pillars Maynard Zelias All gosus Srry i have fergotten many other gamers comparable to the ones on this list | ||
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Inspire
132 Posts
For me NTT who couldn't play eliminations for WCG ( don't remember which year ) was the only one who could do something in Korea. As I remember he was late for the finals in Holland and he couldn't play. Slayer, he played BoxeR and lost. I think he lost in that match 3-0 not 3-2. Maybe I am wrong. It was so many years ago. It was the last contact with korean players without going to this country. The best player from Europe vs new star from Korea. Zelias, many tactics, very good player but for me the best person who was writing every minute of the game and what to do. Many players that time was reading his strategies and first timings in the game. This was first apperance of logic and technic way to win in SC. BlackMan, he was third at WCG ( I know Elky was 2nd year before ). The best zerg player outside Korea that time. It was a very big impact in Poland. The best macro when playing zerg. Grrrr, the first player who went to Korea and played very well. His reaver drop was incredible. Even today his reaver drop is one of the best in the world. Of course there are many otrher things but this is the most catchable for everyone. And... Montaro. First terran player who show others that protoss and zerg can be stopped in SC ( not SC:BW ). The same time like Grrrr who was then a rising star. His site and short screen play locking down carriers and using nuclear after lockdown carriers and building 6 or 7 barracks and pomping marines against zerg. There are more players, but for me they are the most important for SC outside Korea. | ||
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
intotheclan, if that info is correct....wow | ||
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Inspire
132 Posts
NTT wasn't 2nd at WCG. He never appeared in Korea. | ||
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ZyPhReX
1192 Posts
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FBS1
United Kingdom875 Posts
 As soon as I read the name montaro i knew somewhere in that post lockdown+carrier was going to be said | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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Inspire
132 Posts
I am playing from the very begging, but I forgot many things about what happend that years. That is a shame, because it was the best years of playing for me. | ||
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IntoTheClan
Afghanistan207 Posts
On January 18 2004 20:01 Inspire wrote: Why you people compare someones greatness to money ??!! In that way we can count playing/money. In my opinion people can do more for some games, bussines etc. than earning and counting their power in money. NTT wasn't 2nd at WCG. He never appeared in Korea. 1) If you dont do it by money and by watching replays and vods. It's senseless to discuss, cause then u can name the gamer u liked most and no one cant even say you are wrong. You cant be wrong then. But i think u somehow HAVE TO compare their greatness with winning money everything else doesnt count much. For sure some legendary games, strats, inventors, developers, moves ect.. are all honorable and to get mentioned. 2) I may be wrong but i rember a picture where u could see 3 gamers at wcg. I_LOVE_STAR NTT and someoneelse i dont remember, maybe chobo or sven or i really dont know. But i am pretty sure ntt got 2nd and won 10000$. Maybe it wasnt WCG. Maybe only something like that. Correct me if i am wrong @ Bigballs : i dont know if fish earned 15000 or 30000. But he won quite something : 10000 wcg 400 amd challange 1000 with other tournaments 5000 with Prizes 400 with ebay and letting stupid gamers pay 10$ to get a game vs him. so around 20000. Maybe more or less. | ||
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Inspire
132 Posts
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Inspire
132 Posts
For me the only second player at WCG is Elky. | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On January 18 2004 20:11 Inspire wrote: Damn I wrote something wrong... Slayer maybe went to Korea to play BoxeR. Shit someone please correct me if I am wrong in my main post. Slayer went to korea and played Boxer in the now defunkt Rival Revenge matches. Slayer lost 3-0, I only remeber the last game where boxer owned TvZ on Char. On a side note, ChRh, then random, gained a lot of fame by beating boxer 3-1 in the same show a little later. edit: char not chair:o | ||
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Inspire
132 Posts
Conclusion, you are too young to understand that these years it was a different playing and wasn't counted into money. | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
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Inspire
132 Posts
In my mind now I see the news from broodwar.com. The scenario of these two players with their suits which are normal right now | ||
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ejai63
United States2101 Posts
most skill = elky most talent = slayer | ||
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tiffany
3664 Posts
On January 18 2004 20:21 Inspire wrote: No you are wrong IntoTheClan. You know why ?? I see you as a young person who didn't play the first 2 years of SC... Conclusion, you are too young to understand that these years it was a different playing and wasn't counted into money. and you should really get your facts straight. | ||
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IntoTheClan
Afghanistan207 Posts
Chinese gamers not included. I think this are the four non korean gamers who made the most cash with bw. And thats what counts. Maybe Nazgul earned more than fisheye but no other. Not Sven not saft not anyone i remember so far. I think i've read something like that. Grrrr = Around 300000 $ Elky = Around 80000 $ Fisheye = Aroung 25000 $ ( With computer stuff and other prizes included ) Slayer = Around 15000 $ ? He won KBK and of course some other shit NTT = Wcg 2nd, wasnt he ? If i would chose the Best non korean gamer ever with skills and dominating and game style, not only with cash my opinion is like that : Grrrr Slayer hasudrone Fisheye Pillars Maynard Zelias All gosus Srry i have fergotten many other gamers comparable to the ones on this list Watching out for the best gamer i think U HAVE TO go for cash. For your personal best gamer or the gamer u admired most or you think who owned most u can go by everything u want. Inspire when did u start ? U even know Kali ? Did you play FSGS ? I started in 97/98 and no thats nothing to be proud of. But u cant tell shit u dont know. I played at the first two years. I liked Grrrr... and his skill and his development of toss. I hated Boxer because he kinda pulled Grrrr.. aways. But i try to be objective at least. And objective = Rate gamers by success => Success = Cash . And not gosu games or replays. I hope u understand me now. The gamers i rate the best arent my personal favourites. But its all about objectivity. | ||
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Inspire
132 Posts
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Mikael
Sweden47 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
game 1! game 2! Also HOT was in this tourney, but was eliminated 1st round by the reigning terran-master Crexis. | ||
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Kyoken
United States92 Posts
Grrr and Elky were and are great players still but if these guys actually tried to do anything on the gaming scene they would dominate... | ||
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Inspire
132 Posts
Man I played exodus and every single other servers that time. I played Grrrr and other people that time. What replays ?? Man are you insane ?? You remember when replays appeared ?? Yea the best thing. Succes is money. Good for you. Succes if you don't know, is creating youself and acheaving a goal you want, but money is the second place in that whole thing. I understand what you are talking about, but it is sad, because people first have a dream and they try to realize it, then they think about money. If they think about it in a different way, their idea crushes. | ||
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x[ReaPeR]x
United States3447 Posts
Grrr... for accomplishments. Slayer for being so good. Legionnaire for doing well on Korea for a long time. Naz for being in Korea for a while. Honorable mention to Maynard for being the best player during the beginning. | ||
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Inspire
132 Posts
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x[ReaPeR]x
United States3447 Posts
Blackman Pj FroZ On second thought I don't think anyone outside for Korea is better than Blackman. | ||
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Inspire
132 Posts
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
leg too and yosh some | ||
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Inspire
132 Posts
I do not want to change my point of view. These players are the best at their time. I am sure that IntoTheClan has no idea, because he even couldn't mention players that changed this game. Ahh sorry only thing succes=money. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On January 18 2004 20:44 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: ElkY for being consistent. Grrr... for accomplishments. Slayer for being so good. Legionnaire for doing well on Korea for a long time. Naz for being in Korea for a while. Honorable mention to Maynard for being the best player during the beginning. Sorry but let me point out Grrr was very consistent during his prime, then he seemingly got a jinx vs t after losing 3-0 to boxer. Elky also very consistent but never as dominating as grrr. Tho to be fair, progaming was much harder during his prime. What have leg done that was so well? Good in team leagues, not qualifying for other leagues. Sorry leg~~ Maynard was considered by many of his peers to be the best player, but he never won anything. My honorable mention goes to Zileas (zelias is a different player, folks) for theorycrafting everything to death and give people a whole new perspective, along with pioneering / popularizing certain strats e.g reaver/goon pvp | ||
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RickJSanchez
United States1585 Posts
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
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StimD
Norway738 Posts
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LogaiN
Sweden1073 Posts
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Zoom
1111 Posts
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AgonyRush
United States2540 Posts
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Jamers
Israel1327 Posts
And since it seems EVERYONE who's been to Korea is getting mentioned, then Pillars definitely deserves a mention, oh and Thor. | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
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aLuMetTe
Canada35 Posts
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Jamers
Israel1327 Posts
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Adamthegreat
Sweden1179 Posts
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
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Destroyer
Czech Republic937 Posts
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M@gnum.
Germany105 Posts
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M@gnum.
Germany105 Posts
On January 18 2004 22:35 RuGbUg wrote: Was sVEN ever somewhere around Slayer's level? later, when slayer wasn't that active anymore... i think at this time sven was even better than slayer ... should be around "old" wgtour season 2 when every good player was still playing it.. also to mention is saft and also really oldschool is daaman.. perhaps a part of this oldschool gaming community were [def]kosh and [def]rookie... to get some german involvement | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On January 18 2004 22:32 Adamthegreat wrote: All you people talking about Pillars, Zileas etc, well, sure they were good at their time when there was maybe 100 gosus all around the world, but today when there are thousends their accomplishments can´t even be compared to the likes of Elky´s. Sure they can. Legends become legends because they either revolutioned the sport, art or whatever or because they were the best that was at their peak. They all quit playing, who knows where they would have beentoday. | ||
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ForgoTTeN-SupeR
United States786 Posts
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Liquid`Daaman
Sweden1225 Posts
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SpeedDemonToss
108 Posts
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DooMeR
United States1519 Posts
On January 18 2004 19:55 Inspire wrote: Slayer, he played BoxeR and lost. I think he lost in that match 3-0 not 3-2. Maybe I am wrong. It was so many years ago. It was the last contact with korean players without going to this country. The best player from Europe vs new star from Korea. He lost 3-0 i believe but the fact he was jet-lagged and he is a terran player, using his zerg to take on boxer was amazing :O (which btw i got reps of slayer beating elky 7-0 zvt -_-) | ||
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KiZz
Netherlands194 Posts
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RiDeN
Brazil31 Posts
2- Elky & [GG99]Slayer Honorable Mentions: Blackman, NTT, Fisheye | ||
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_liquid_
France98 Posts
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NewbieMcNasty
United States328 Posts
2. Elky 3. Slayer 4. Saft 5. NTT | ||
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NewbieMcNasty
United States328 Posts
On January 18 2004 22:07 Jamers wrote: Ok all the choices mentioned are great, but once again I am amazed noone is mentioning Pillars. And since it seems EVERYONE who's been to Korea is getting mentioned, then Pillars definitely deserves a mention, oh and Thor. U forgot Jolly | ||
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_liquid_
France98 Posts
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NewbieMcNasty
United States328 Posts
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_liquid_
France98 Posts
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NewbieMcNasty
United States328 Posts
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AbanD
Bulgaria146 Posts
#2 - NTT #3 - [o]Mr.X | ||
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AgonyRush
United States2540 Posts
On January 19 2004 17:00 RiDeN wrote: 1- Grrrr... (No doubts about that. He was like GOD in early SC and BW.) 2- Elky & [GG99]Slayer Honorable Mentions: Blackman, NTT, Fisheye WTF for people are mentioning Blackman? He didnt do shit. Got lucky once and placed 3rd at WCG. Big deal. edit: once not ones T_T | ||
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AgonyRush
United States2540 Posts
On January 18 2004 22:07 Jamers wrote: Ok all the choices mentioned are great, but once again I am amazed noone is mentioning Pillars. And since it seems EVERYONE who's been to Korea is getting mentioned, then Pillars definitely deserves a mention, oh and Thor. SCU was to korea too, wasnt he? does he deserve mentioning? NO. | ||
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Pato
Argentina67 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7465 Posts
On January 19 2004 18:05 AgonyRush wrote: WTF for people are mentioning Blackman? He didnt do shit. Got lucky ones and placed 3rd at WCG. Big deal. Yep I totally agree, his preformance was a complete fluke. There was no amount of skill or talent behind his play, his playing style is just like rolling dice .... | ||
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_liquid_
France98 Posts
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Dez
Sweden159 Posts
ill better hide my location, brb | ||
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IntoTheClan
Afghanistan207 Posts
On January 19 2004 17:00 RiDeN wrote: 1- Grrrr... (No doubts about that. He was like GOD in early SC and BW.) 2- Elky & [GG99]Slayer Honorable Mentions: Blackman, NTT, Fisheye Yes, i agree 99 %. Maybe we should list some more gamers with honorable mentions. | ||
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KiZz
Netherlands194 Posts
On January 19 2004 18:04 AbanD wrote: #1 - [GG99]Slayer #2 - NTT #3 - [o]Mr.X mr x? ow yeah ur from bulgaria! | ||
Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
As My Friend KizZ also notices <3 | ||
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Wiget
Poland139 Posts
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roCh
Sweden870 Posts
Matrix[SiN] how can you put willet there? Seriously.. | ||
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A.KidMaN
Poland37 Posts
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Dick
United States717 Posts
grrr soso maynard slayer blackman saft smuft elky | ||
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
On January 19 2004 18:09 AgonyRush wrote: SCU was to korea too, wasnt he? does he deserve mentioning? NO. i dont know of a single ladder where scu played legitly, not even bnet | ||
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Mydnyte
3306 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On January 19 2004 21:29 Dick wrote: rectify: grrr soso maynard slayer blackman saft smuft elky blackman/smuft/saft don't deserve to be on that list, they are the next tier | ||
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dork
Canada2207 Posts
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dork
Canada2207 Posts
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Zerius[TPR]
Canada1633 Posts
Maynard obviously had a ton of talent, and in the very early history of SC, it was him and Grrrr... neck and neck skillwise. Unfortunately for his legacy, he didnt stay in korea like Grrrr... did, so we can only guess at what might have been. Maynard, along with Pillars, is probably the most naturally talented American RTS player ever, so im sure he would have excelled in the early progaming scene as well. Slayer was great of course, but wasnt around long enough to make a real lasting impression. ElkY unfortunately got good around the time that koreans had turned BW into a science, and not a game of talent. Legionnaire is of course a great player, but has no real progaming accomplishments. The same could be said for ntt. The guy took 3rd at the WCGC, and sort of had a mystique about him because there were replays of him beating top players like GARIMTO and IntotheRain, but other than his 3rd at WCGC, he had no other real accomplishments. Everyone else at 3rd tier was either a progamer for a short time (Naz, Smuft), or are simply incredible players who could probably be progamers if they chose to be. (FisheYe, Blackman) So... 1. X'Ds~Grrrr... 2. Maynard/[GG1.Lycos]ElkY@JH/[GG99]Slayer 3. Smuft/FisheYe/Blackman/[9]nTT/Legionnaire/Nazgul PS. Montaro and [9]eVERLAST sucked | ||
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gg_hertzz
2152 Posts
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aLuMetTe
Canada35 Posts
long long time ago: hasudrone long time ago: {SG}Yosh now: Linyu)Pj always been: X'Ds~Grrrr... GiYoM GiOM | ||
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ApollyoN
United States1297 Posts
sure, this years wcg performance was pretty impressive, but he doesnt really deserve to be even mentioned with some of those other players | ||
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Johnnyblaze
87 Posts
Elky is good...but NTT > Elky imo Hellghost is hella good. but i'm biased since he's Brazil :D | ||
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Bleww
United States1080 Posts
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Liquid`Daaman
Sweden1225 Posts
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
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Sliggy
Australia797 Posts
1)FroZ 2)Grrrr... 3)NTT 4)BlackMAN 5)LinYu)PJ seriously i don't think elky is or ever was that good. and even including koreans i believe FroZ is the best. | ||
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z7-TranCe
Canada3158 Posts
giyom,elky 2nd,everyone else distant 3rd. | ||
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taRo_leE
Canada102 Posts
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=[aBs]=Coban
Norway48 Posts
soso was the first one to actually use vultures w/ mines to defeat anyone at a good level in tvp, actually he owned grrr on river styx using vultures in the finals of a big tournament, i dont remember which tour it was but it was waaay back in the day when protoss owned terran in badly every game. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
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BinGBonG[gamei]
Netherlands514 Posts
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MrEd
Australia357 Posts
On January 18 2004 20:01 Inspire wrote: Why you people compare someones greatness to money ??!! In that way we can count playing/money. In my opinion people can do more for some games, bussines etc. than earning and counting their power in money. NTT wasn't 2nd at WCG. He never appeared in Korea. Yeh like if money=greatness then anna kournikova is the best ever female tennis player...lol i dun think so :/ | ||
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Sliggy
Australia797 Posts
hasudrone pwned man, mass wraiths TvP elky = must love. | ||
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Aca
United States165 Posts
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gg_hertzz
2152 Posts
On January 20 2004 11:05 MrEd wrote: Yeh like if money=greatness then anna kournikova is the best ever female tennis player...lol i dun think so :/ If you only factor in her tournament earnings, then yes, money would be indicative of her skill. Since skill can't empirically be judged in BW, there needs to be some quantifiable variable by which you judge. Money is that variable. | ||
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GoSexyPerli
United States1072 Posts
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Chibi[OWNS]
United Kingdom10597 Posts
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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ZyPhReX
1192 Posts
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BlackJack21
185 Posts
2. elky :O | ||
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soundwave
United States363 Posts
After Boxer beat Grrr... they set up like sort of a rematch between Korea's best and Europe's best (Slayer aka GG99 Slayer). Those were the only two matches between East and West players in this best of 5 series, so as you can figure out Slayer was at Grrr's side or in the worst case... a step behind him. Anyway Boxer kicked em both 3-0, including a marvaleus Barrack Land - Marine Block at the side of Grrr's main mineral on HOV. Btw, if you ask me the best foreign clan of all time it would undoubtfully be GG Lycos. GG 00 Maynard GG 99 Slayer GG dont remember Elky GG 69 NTT GG dont remember Sven GG Scream GG Chobo so resuming, my answer is Maynard, Slayer, Elky and NTT 4 of the all time best- along with Grrr and D22-Soso. Recently I see Smuft is a level above Elky, so maybe he could be included too | ||
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.KOZI.
Czech Republic61 Posts
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karate
Norway120 Posts
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ejai63
United States2101 Posts
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Mydnyte
3306 Posts
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inc
Sweden889 Posts
On January 19 2004 22:28 [pG]Rekrul wrote: blackman/smuft/saft don't deserve to be on that list, they are the next tier saft does sure as hell deserve a place there, and maybe blackman too, but smuft however does not. | ||
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z7-TranCe
Canada3158 Posts
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Zoom
1111 Posts
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Dick
United States717 Posts
On January 20 2004 23:58 TranCe wrote: smuft has accomplished _alot_ more than saft and blackman,but is still not close to giyom/elky elky accomplished more than smuft. But I think Smuft would kick Elky's ass any given day right now, so maybe Smuft could go further than elky. | ||
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FBS1
United Kingdom875 Posts
On January 21 2004 00:50 Zoom wrote: maynard has never been to korea, right? no he went around the time of the second kbk afaik | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
On January 20 2004 22:37 soundwave wrote: back in 2001. when boxer and grrr were at their prime, some league i don't remember now set up these matches east vs west, having for stars the best players of Korea and the Rest of the World (boxer vs grrrr). After Boxer beat Grrr... they set up like sort of a rematch between Korea's best and Europe's best (Slayer aka GG99 Slayer). Those were the only two matches between East and West players in this best of 5 series, so as you can figure out Slayer was at Grrr's side or in the worst case... a step behind him. Anyway Boxer kicked em both 3-0, including a marvaleus Barrack Land - Marine Block at the side of Grrr's main mineral on HOV. Btw, if you ask me the best foreign clan of all time it would undoubtfully be GG Lycos. GG 00 Maynard GG 99 Slayer GG dont remember Elky GG 69 NTT GG dont remember Sven GG Scream GG Chobo so resuming, my answer is Maynard, Slayer, Elky and NTT 4 of the all time best- along with Grrr and D22-Soso. Recently I see Smuft is a level above Elky, so maybe he could be included too I thought elky was 1 Sven was 99 too, wasn't he? | ||
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MaxPepper
Sri Lanka298 Posts
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Zerius[TPR]
Canada1633 Posts
On January 20 2004 22:37 soundwave wrote: back in 2001. when boxer and grrr were at their prime, some league i don't remember now set up these matches east vs west, having for stars the best players of Korea and the Rest of the World (boxer vs grrrr). After Boxer beat Grrr... they set up like sort of a rematch between Korea's best and Europe's best (Slayer aka GG99 Slayer). Those were the only two matches between East and West players in this best of 5 series, so as you can figure out Slayer was at Grrr's side or in the worst case... a step behind him. Anyway Boxer kicked em both 3-0, including a marvaleus Barrack Land - Marine Block at the side of Grrr's main mineral on HOV. Btw, if you ask me the best foreign clan of all time it would undoubtfully be GG Lycos. GG 00 Maynard GG 99 Slayer GG dont remember Elky GG 69 NTT GG dont remember Sven GG Scream GG Chobo so resuming, my answer is Maynard, Slayer, Elky and NTT 4 of the all time best- along with Grrr and D22-Soso. Recently I see Smuft is a level above Elky, so maybe he could be included too [GG1]ElkY@JH, [GG8]sVEN@aBs and [GG12]mockturtle (Dudey) | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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CirCa
Canada158 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22258 Posts
On January 19 2004 17:55 _liquid_ wrote: C'mon, you must know that it is not possible to definitely quit BW.. I'm sure he still happens to play games, doesn't he? He does. A few months ago(Nov/Dec or something), a good bit of people from Blizzard's SC forum got together, and he dropped by to obs, even ended up playing a game as P instead of T versus a Terran. While definately not as good as he used to be, for someone who probably rarely plays anymore, he can still best most players. I've uploaded it onto Battle Reports by the way, if you or anyone else wants to see how well he's playing nowadays: http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=22625 | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On January 20 2004 16:02 Chibi[OWNS] wrote: who the hell is slayer? :p GG99]Slayer - Norwegian gosu who grew up on kali and was one of the first real terran gosus. Won KBK 2000 (or 2k1? not sure) vs I.Love_Star and participated in the now defunkt Game-Q leagues. Basicly at that time he and grrr was leaps ahead of the other foreigeners, with the possible exception of Saft. | ||
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Yarertz
Djibouti1891 Posts
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IntoTheClan
Afghanistan207 Posts
I think smuft is really overrated by some people here. Fisheye is much better than smuft and mainly than any other non korean P. Maybe Saft and Grrrr... and Nazgul are on the same level. But fisheye anyway isnt top 5 non korean gamers. He is around top 10. Smuft isnt even top 10 if u ask me.. | ||
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IntoTheClan
Afghanistan207 Posts
So many gosu gamers. Fisheye[pG] Draco[pG] Infinity[pG] Cope[pG] Hellghost[pG] Nazgul[pG] Rekrul[pG] Breakdown[pG] Blackman[pG] Gundam[pG] Daaman[pG] NTT[pG] Suker[pG] ect.. Also some ex pG's fergotten... pG is so strong.. | ||
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
And Slayer wa about 230-250ish apm. In the documentary on tv grrr, themarine and other were standing behind him, talking about his insane speed. Prolly the first really fast gamer. | ||
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
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option4
United States104 Posts
slayer sven maynard pillars sauron tsunami grr my 2 bits; | ||
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
Tsunami had a huge influence on east players, but i don't know if it went anywhere beyond that. I know i never thought of the zergling the same way after i saw the way they can be micro'd. (by tsunami). | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
![[image loading]](http://hasuwar.isgsa.org/Slayer.jpg) 268 apm, 30 minute game, 24+/-(nada usually 40), 32% select, 22% move, only 16% hotkeys.. it's undeniable that that son of a bitch was faster than light..and all before bwchart when people actually TRY to get high apm ;o Try to find any player with that kind of speed today.. You can't | ||
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soundwave
United States363 Posts
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Mydnyte
3306 Posts
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Fox
United States408 Posts
On January 18 2004 22:07 Jamers wrote: Ok all the choices mentioned are great, but once again I am amazed noone is mentioning Pillars. And since it seems EVERYONE who's been to Korea is getting mentioned, then Pillars definitely deserves a mention, oh and Thor. FUCKING YES Fox | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On January 21 2004 21:42 hasuwar wrote: Try to find any player with that kind of speed today.. You can't Boxer is the only alive player (that I am aware of) who uses the same basics. I just checked a random rep, 25% hotkey. He is slower still tho:o | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On January 21 2004 08:01 CirCa wrote: Sven taught Slayer. Er, judging from all those interviews of GG members, I doubt it. Are you sure?  | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
hopefully good enough ; ) (sven was really good before slayer became really good! ) | ||
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chobopeon
United States7342 Posts
On January 18 2004 11:03 luminosity_ wrote: you guys are forgetting "Mouse-only Mr. Shooting Shuttle" Zileas... haha ok, really, i guess it would be k-sharp in counterstrike. He got so good with the AWP fastswitching that valve ended up patching it out it's still in counter-strike. and he's not even the best counter-strike player :O | ||
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chobopeon
United States7342 Posts
On January 18 2004 22:26 aLuMetTe wrote: {SG}Yosh : ] <33 Plus tsu, some fun to watch. Not the best, but they were fun. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
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ApollyoN
United States1297 Posts
On January 21 2004 15:10 IntoTheClan wrote: Slayer never had that much apm. I think smuft is really overrated by some people here. Fisheye is much better than smuft and mainly than any other non korean P. Maybe Saft and Grrrr... and Nazgul are on the same level. But fisheye anyway isnt top 5 non korean gamers. He is around top 10. Smuft isnt even top 10 if u ask me.. I really dont think fisheye deserves to be mentioned with Saft, Grrrr..., Nazgul, OR smuft. You can throw in his last wcg performance, or whatever, but we really dont know what smuft wouldve done, do we? :| Fisheye is very smart about the game, no one can argue that, but i simply dont think he is as good as those players, sorry | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Sadist
United States7300 Posts
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Dick
United States717 Posts
On January 22 2004 02:13 ApollyoN wrote: I really dont think fisheye deserves to be mentioned with Saft, Grrrr..., Nazgul, OR smuft. You can throw in his last wcg performance, or whatever, but we really dont know what smuft wouldve done, do we? :| Fisheye is very smart about the game, no one can argue that, but i simply dont think he is as good as those players, sorry Smuft would have gone through WCG flawless, after imppressive performance at TLT, no one was at his level. Fisheye is really good indeed I like his style and attitude very much, but I really don't think he could deal with someone like Blackman for instance. Then Blackman should be considered. Edit: If I recall, Blackman beat him pretty bad WCG 2002 and don't recall where else | ||
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User_
141 Posts
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ejai63
United States2101 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22258 Posts
On January 21 2004 22:14 soundwave wrote: some site published a pack of Slayer reps, but I lost the link... does anyone have it handy ? http://www.starcraftgamers.com/files/replay_packages/Slayer.zip | ||
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Mr.Royle
Portugal324 Posts
http://www.starcraftgamers.com/files/replay_packages/Slayer.zip | ||
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Sliggy
Australia797 Posts
Oh, and was Private[pG] Nal_GG? Cos if he was Daaman he deserves a replay for completely raping the fuck out of yellow in some WSL game. Blackman is a fucking legend, but Grrrr / NTT claim the throne for best ever foreigners. like some other guy said, they bashed the fuck out of pro kors like nobody else. | ||
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krzych113
United Kingdom547 Posts
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Amberski
Bulgaria17 Posts
I know there are a lot of amazing bw players, most of them mentioned in the previous posts. But whatsoever, we are talking about the top of the top (some funny rap - "MiB" so unlogicaly the throne belongs to two players:NTT & Grrr... Their achievements are well known, so I shall not repeat then, but I am going to propose this division: Best non Korean toss user of all times: Grrr... Best non Korean terran user of all times: NTT (known as hasudrone) As a terran player and fan, I will comment only why NTT deserves to be Nr. 1 On his first apierence in Korea (yes, he was there, 2 place), he was offered to stay there as a pro, having 4 suggestions. Refused all of them. He is definitly the best macro_fucker in the world, with an insane micro and disturbing creativity!! As someone mentioned above "nobody used to kick so bad Koreans". His vision over the game was kind a shocking ( Anyone seen another player pushed from 12 dragoons and a shuttle with reavers, sending them all back to Auir via throwing at them his mighty legions of SCVs?!? NO!!! ) A lot can be told about his skills, but will finish with his worst. He was arogant, never admitted that this is just a waste of time, looked at the other at least ironic. Never prepared himself seriously for the competitons and finally, in his apogee, he retired! Anyway, he is my choise... he is The Terran Choise! | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
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Mydnyte
3306 Posts
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IntoTheClan
Afghanistan207 Posts
On January 22 2004 02:13 ApollyoN wrote: I really dont think fisheye deserves to be mentioned with Saft, Grrrr..., Nazgul, OR smuft. You can throw in his last wcg performance, or whatever, but we really dont know what smuft wouldve done, do we? :| Fisheye is very smart about the game, no one can argue that, but i simply dont think he is as good as those players, sorry i dont think u can compare Fisheye with gamers like Grrrr... or Elky or any other Korean Pro Toss. But whats the big differnce between Saft,Nazgul,Smuft and Fisheye ? I think Fisheye was more successfull than Smuft and Saft were. I dont know if they ever won around 20000 $ with bw. DId they ? And if we dont talk about success, we talk about style ? Oldschool ? Tricky play? Impressive games ? Tell me whats the big difference between fisheye and Nazgul,Smuft,Saft ? Fisheye beat Grrrr.. twice in wcg.. pwnd elky and silent_control. I mean where is your objective argument, why he isnt comparable with the mentioned tosses. Expect Grrrr... ( who is simpley thenr1 non korean ever ) i dont agree with you. What did Smuft reach in Bw ? I mean cash ? Any tournaments ? And yes his games vs Zeus on nnwo or some other games were really nice. But i really think that the toss list looks more like that : 1.Grrrr..., Zileas 2.Saft,Nazgul,Fisheye 3.Smuft, others.. 4.Rekrul, Willet ect.. | ||
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22258 Posts
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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ZyPhReX
1192 Posts
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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ZyPhReX
1192 Posts
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Amberski
Bulgaria17 Posts
ZyPhReX - nice to see another fan of the classic times, and hasudrone | ||
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ZyPhReX
1192 Posts
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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Dick
United States717 Posts
prior 1999 = Grrrr, Maynard. I remember Grrr was the only thing I read on bnet along with Maynard and their crazy techniques. 2000 = Slayer, Maynard, Grrrr, NTT, Saft Replays were released. I used to watch a lot of reps, and I remember wathing games involving them. Specially kicking some korean's ass or themselves. Boxer played the best foreign at the time (grrr) and the best european at the time (slayer). Elky wasn't really good at this time. Some good reps: NTT vs garimto, vs boxer, vs chrh, vs themarine, vs kimwanchul, vs mcnasty, vs smuft, vs elky... Maynad vs arang 90minutes, vs slayer, vs grrr, vs elky. 2001 = Grrrr, Maynard, Saft, Elky, NTT Same as 2000. Though Slayer got lost, and Maynard and NTT began dissappearing. Elky improved and got stronger. This year was definetly Saft's prime too. Saft vs chojja, vs boxer, vs chrh, vs grrr, vs didi8 etc... 2002 = Grrrr, Blackman, Elky A lot of foreign gosus dissappeard from the scene. Though Blackman emerged, and impressed everyone. We not only got 3rd on Wcg, he won some PG and Team Liquid tournaments with some very hard brackets. The only one able to stop him was Elky, who began falling down. Grrr remained stable. Some reps of that time: blackman vs nazgul, damaan, ryoko, hellghost, fisheye, mario. Elky vs blackman, vs rekrul. The thing with blackman is that he's lame "don't release my reps" policy, doesn't allow us to see if he has improved or got worse. 2003 = Grrrr, Smuft When Elky played Smuft on Liquibition, I thoght he would kick canadian ass, instead it was Smuft who made Elky suck his cock, with amazing Goon micro - carrier micro (Saft's style). Then if there were any doubts, he won TLT in a very hard bracket tournament, kicking sys, leg, mondragon and don't remember who else... but all the games were really impressive and showed it was a more skilled Smuft that was almost on Saft's 2001 Level. Grrrr remained stable. so resuming again... Maynard, Grrrr, Smuft, Saft, Blackman, NTT, Slayer, Elky | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22258 Posts
Amberski: I'm going to try and find some reps of him pumping his SCVs, if I can't find any, I'll take you up on your offer, thanks. ;-) | ||
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DooMeR
United States1519 Posts
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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DooMeR
United States1519 Posts
3 years in march T_T | ||
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Magalhas
Portugal126 Posts
* | ||
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ShAsTa
Belgium2841 Posts
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Magalhas
Portugal126 Posts
 Yeah Smuft and Grrrr are currantly the best non Korean players in my opinion.. And Leg either * Mondragon can't be considered one of the best in the level of those 2/3 players I mentioned.. | ||
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Tu
United States16 Posts
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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Kyoken
United States92 Posts
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nolowerd cnase noame
United States161 Posts
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NegativeZero
Canada45 Posts
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Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
On January 23 2004 04:10 Dick wrote: 2003 = Grrrr, Smuft I don't agree with that for me giyom stopped playing that good in 2003 and I don't see any reason why Smuft is up there although I think he would've got huge chances at wcg, I've barely seen him win anything that would made him fit as best foreign players in that year I think Fisheye should be on best foreign players 2003 and blackman should be in 2002 I agree with the rest tho edit: blackman is on your list 2002 kk ^^ | ||
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mvnL
Poland394 Posts
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Terross
United States878 Posts
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ShAsTa
Belgium2841 Posts
I'm shocked to see testie's name in this topic | ||
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Dick
United States717 Posts
On January 29 2004 11:58 Mandalor wrote: I don't agree with that for me giyom stopped playing that good in 2003 and I don't see any reason why Smuft is up there although I think he would've got huge chances at wcg, I've barely seen him win anything that would made him fit as best foreign players in that year I think Fisheye should be on best foreign players 2003 and blackman should be in 2002 I agree with the rest tho edit: blackman is on your list 2002 kk ^^ Check out Smuft's games when he won TLT (ladder + tournament bracket) + Liquibition vs Elky. I'm not saying he candidates to be best ever, but in 2003, he clearly was a step ahead some players. | ||
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gogo
Congo37 Posts
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
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Terross
United States878 Posts
any1 know where i can get thsi rep? | ||
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Schwarzenegger 08
343 Posts
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nolowerd cnase noame
United States161 Posts
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