It'd be pretty cool if some pro maps were put into this... like the left side of the map could be Destination and the right side could be some other map >.>

NiGoL

1868 Posts

February 05 2010 21:39 GMT

#222

ya this is a very cool idea.

Falling

Canada11513 Posts

February 08 2010 00:38 GMT

#223

Well here is a very low level game on Tandem- (I play on ICCUP very rarely and when I do, I lose.)

This was a game with two of my roommates- who I can defeat 2v1 and one friend who came for our LAN party. He figured he was good enough to play random so I chose random as well- I usually play toss, but got terran. (I'm Passafist.)

Honestly, there are so many things I did wrong despite successfully keeping him in his one base. This game should have ended a long time before it actually did (partly because the last time I played, I did a lurker ling build and threw away too many units- then became too cautious on this game.) I had spending problems, late 3rd expansion, an ill-timed push by my ally which stalled out my own push (about to win and then a group of seige tanks spawn) and no large drop which easily could have finished the game. I also was just learning how utilize vultures with tanks, so my mine placement is very weird. But it was fun.

Low Level Tandom: R v R Challenge 46 min

Ok, this is a way better game, but still low level. I was playing Zerg (my offrace), but I knew my opponent and my own race so I could use a specific build order- I wanted to try out the lurker ling build order (had only done it against computers.) I'd say it worked pretty well first time out. (I'm Passafist again.)

Tandem Starcraft- Lurker Ling Build Order 14 min

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

February 08 2010 00:46 GMT

#224

Thanks for the bump, I never saw that map, I'm gonna have to try it

oberon

United States1320 Posts

February 13 2010 17:22 GMT

#225

I'd like to try this map with other (as-bad-as-I-am) TLers. Anyone interested can PM or find me on IRC.

--oberon

oberon

United States1320 Posts

February 13 2010 17:32 GMT

#226

On February 06 2010 06:38 Straylight wrote:
It'd be pretty cool if some pro maps were put into this... like the left side of the map could be Destination and the right side could be some other map >.>

Also, second this: I'd be very happy with dualing destinations (which are conveniently just the right size...).

Sadly, when I try to switch to the location view on this map, SCMDraftII crashes. I actually had destination successfully copy/pasted to one side, too

--oberon

oberon

United States1320 Posts

February 14 2010 01:49 GMT

#227

I now have a Destination version of this map...I think. Looking for testers for tomorrow, maybe...?

--oberon

XsebT

Denmark2980 Posts

February 14 2010 01:52 GMT

#228

On February 14 2010 10:49 oberon wrote:
I now have a Destination version of this map...I think. Looking for testers for tomorrow, maybe...?

--oberon

Bring it on! I'm ready right now!

Noev

United States1105 Posts

February 14 2010 01:58 GMT

#229

On February 14 2010 10:49 oberon wrote:
I now have a Destination version of this map...I think. Looking for testers for tomorrow, maybe...?

--oberon

Now that what i'm talking about, not sure how well it will work but this is one of my favorite maps.This is the kind of thing i am really looking forward to, i think if you do more really popular maps like this one the idea might be able to really take off

Chef

10810 Posts

February 14 2010 02:16 GMT

#230

On February 14 2010 10:49 oberon wrote:
I now have a Destination version of this map...I think. Looking for testers for tomorrow, maybe...?

--oberon

When you're ready put up a download link and I'll add it to the OP. Thanks for your effort

SleepSheep

Canada344 Posts

February 14 2010 02:20 GMT

#231

anyone wanna play?

oberon

United States1320 Posts

February 14 2010 02:42 GMT

#232

Sure, I'll hop on ICCUP and we can test the destination edition. Nick there is pnaxighn.

--oberon

Edit: if you're interested, join channel bughouse on iccup.

XsebT

Denmark2980 Posts

February 14 2010 03:01 GMT

#233

Join that channel, or I'll kill your first born chill and make it haunt you...seriously.

XsebT

Denmark2980 Posts

February 14 2010 03:56 GMT

#234

So, shit works! Can't wait to actually play the map!

5am, NN!

oberon

United States1320 Posts

February 14 2010 03:57 GMT

#235

On February 14 2010 11:16 Chef wrote:

Show nested quote +

When you're ready put up a download link and I'll add it to the OP. Thanks for your effort

BughouseDestination available at http://giver.homedns.org/BughouseDestination.scx . It's not as clean as the original (no briefing), but it seems to work.

--oberon

Excel Excel

142 Posts

February 14 2010 04:44 GMT

#236

Civilian spawners suck, I recommend replacing them with blinded invincible hero science vessels (with energy constantly set to zero). The civilian death "punishment" thing is just stupid; late-game will revolve around sniping the civilian instead of normal gameplay.

I recommend awarding minerals to your ally for defensive structure kills, otherwise people will just throw up cannons and make the ally stronger without giving opponents benefits.

Also, instead of units dying, simply move them back into the map; the current system makes air unit micro on the edges incredibly dangerous.

OP combinations:
-Enemy is T while ally is Z/P
-Enemy is P while ally is T/Z
-Enemy is Z while ally is T and facing a Z

oberon

United States1320 Posts

February 14 2010 05:08 GMT

#237

I was thinking about the civilian thing. I didn't do the original map, but I did make the Destination version, and I considered changing the Civilian mechanic. The problem is that, with anything that flies, enemy units will constantly be appearing in your mineral lines, like super-drops. In actual chess bughouse, that's fine, but in BW I'm not sure it'd work out. Another alternative might be using psi emitters, so they can be moved by workers. In the end, I decided that the person who originally put things together probably had some good reasons/testing, so I left it as-is.

The fact that cannons are better than normal is obvious, but I'm not sure that's a big deal. So cannons are better than normal -- this isn't BW, it's Bug-BW, and things are different.

The "edge" between the two Destinations is actually half-way into the null space between them (I'm not sure where it was on the original tandem map -- I couldn't get its location layer to display in SCMDraft2). So if you're microing out around there, something's really gone wrong. I suppose having the edge that far away allows some odd drop play, but then, having units simply move back provides a bizarre "escape route" if you're losing an aerial battle.

I'm not sure why any of those combinations are overpowered, as you haven't given any evidence.

Bughouse is not chess -- being good at one helps in the other, but it's not a huge boon. There are lots of things that are simply different -- even though the "mechanics" on each board are the same, the actual tactics/strategy are distant cousins, at most. I suspect this is also true for bug-BW -- I'm eager to find out.

--oberon

thopol

Japan4560 Posts

February 14 2010 05:48 GMT

#238

Thanks man, I'll try this out. I've had some really fun games on the earlier tandem maps, and I look forward to playing with the craziness of bughouse on what has become normality of destination.

Chef

10810 Posts

February 14 2010 05:52 GMT

#239

In the original Protoss only version, it was (and still is) a psi emitter. The problem that was found with that in testing was that spawn killing/stealing the emitter just became to dominant a theme and made the map less fun. ie: Victory basically depended on acquiring that emitter. While that in itself has interesting gameplay possibilities, it wasn't what I was going for, and most people didn't seem to like it so I changed it to something that could be killed and respawned in a safe location.

I'm aware of the static defence issue, and anyone who wants to edit this is welcome to come up with their own solutions, but I think that excessive static defence will simply result in a loss of map control which is punishment enough in itself.

The biggest issue this map has right now is that it gets very laggy late game. I'm not interested in making the changes, but I think if someone could figure out a way to make units transfer only once it would be okay. Right now units never disappear when they die, but if they disappeared after dying twice (once on the original side, and once on the other side) it would probably fix lag issues and absurd army size issues. Easier said than done though.

I'm not worried about air unit micro at all. That's the reason the centre is so huge (rather than just being a siege tank's range). There is really no practical reason to go so close to the middle even when doing muta harass.

In any case, I'm happy to add any version someone takes the time to make to the OP, whether or not I personally think the changes are positive. Ultimately, it's a very flexible idea.