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@TheAntZ:
I was checking out the links u provided and this one is ridiculously funny
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=102886¤tpage=5
This dumb T thinks that Carriers are imba and are insta-win
Lets not mention to him T ground army > P ground army, and P has to do so much just to engage the T army at equal power (If you don't stasis, storm, flank, zealdrop, mine drag, then your army just melts)
60 hp workers, ability to repair, vulture comes with 3 mines costs 75 mineral, upgrades unproportional, tank is 2 supply instead of 3, blah blah blah I could keep this going for hours
T's on TL whine soooooooooo much when they're playing the best race
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On October 15 2009 14:30 AzureEye wrote:@TheAntZ: I was checking out the links u provided and this one is ridiculously funny http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=102886¤tpage=5This dumb T thinks that Carriers are imba and are insta-win Lets not mention to him T ground army > P ground army, and P has to do so much just to engage the T army at equal power (If you don't stasis, storm, flank, zealdrop, mine drag, then your army just melts) 60 hp workers, ability to repair, vulture comes with 3 mines costs 75 mineral, upgrades unproportional, tank is 2 supply instead of 3, blah blah blah I could keep this going for hours T's on TL whine soooooooooo much when they're playing the best race
this sounds so false...
Don't complain about scvs considering probes can build anywhere and warp in as much as they want. Manner pylons and Gas steals are pretty common in TvP, there's not really a reason to complain about scvs being toss, only zergs. You just ruined a thread full of race statistics and just skewed it to your opinion. Your ground army arguement is silly, templars, dts, shuttles, and arbirters give the toss a ton of viable strategies. The T only has a wraith against toss, and they only get one for practical reasons... So if you want to argue ground army, then what about tosses carriers arbirters and air superiority. Leaving out the DT and reaver harass early game options. Not like you see T's retaliate making a ton of valks/wraiths/bcs against toss
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On October 15 2009 14:42 Zeridian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2009 14:30 AzureEye wrote:@TheAntZ: I was checking out the links u provided and this one is ridiculously funny http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=102886¤tpage=5This dumb T thinks that Carriers are imba and are insta-win Lets not mention to him T ground army > P ground army, and P has to do so much just to engage the T army at equal power (If you don't stasis, storm, flank, zealdrop, mine drag, then your army just melts) 60 hp workers, ability to repair, vulture comes with 3 mines costs 75 mineral, upgrades unproportional, tank is 2 supply instead of 3, blah blah blah I could keep this going for hours T's on TL whine soooooooooo much when they're playing the best race this sounds so false... Don't complain about scvs considering probes can build anywhere and warp in as much as they want. Manner pylons and Gas steals are pretty common in TvP, there's not really a reason to complain about scvs being toss, only zergs. You just ruined a thread full of race statistics and just skewed it to your opinion. Your ground army arguement is silly, templars, dts, shuttles, and arbirters give the toss a ton of viable strategies. The T only has a wraith against toss, and they only get one for practical reasons... So if you want to argue ground army, then what about tosses carriers arbirters and air superiority. Leaving out the DT and reaver harass early game options. Not like you see T's retaliate making a ton of valks/wraiths/bcs against toss
SCVs can build anywhere they want too. In fact, P needs to have pylon where they want to build, T doesn't even need something like that. How is my ground army argument silly lol? Its the truth, if you don't have those things, and you don't flank, then your P army is gonna melt to superior firepower and range of T units. You bring in meaningless points like air superiority to prove your argument, TvP is not about air superiority. Whoever controls the air doesn't dictate the game like ZvP. And you accuse me of skewing information? lol.
Yeah Manner pylons and gas steals do happen, but so what? It's the T player's fault too for letting it happen.
And why do you even mention valks/wraiths/bcs in TvP?
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why are u guys talking about tvp in a zvp thread
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On October 15 2009 15:35 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2009 14:42 Zeridian wrote:On October 15 2009 14:30 AzureEye wrote:@TheAntZ: I was checking out the links u provided and this one is ridiculously funny http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=102886¤tpage=5This dumb T thinks that Carriers are imba and are insta-win Lets not mention to him T ground army > P ground army, and P has to do so much just to engage the T army at equal power (If you don't stasis, storm, flank, zealdrop, mine drag, then your army just melts) 60 hp workers, ability to repair, vulture comes with 3 mines costs 75 mineral, upgrades unproportional, tank is 2 supply instead of 3, blah blah blah I could keep this going for hours T's on TL whine soooooooooo much when they're playing the best race this sounds so false... Don't complain about scvs considering probes can build anywhere and warp in as much as they want. Manner pylons and Gas steals are pretty common in TvP, there's not really a reason to complain about scvs being toss, only zergs. You just ruined a thread full of race statistics and just skewed it to your opinion. Your ground army arguement is silly, templars, dts, shuttles, and arbirters give the toss a ton of viable strategies. The T only has a wraith against toss, and they only get one for practical reasons... So if you want to argue ground army, then what about tosses carriers arbirters and air superiority. Leaving out the DT and reaver harass early game options. Not like you see T's retaliate making a ton of valks/wraiths/bcs against toss SCVs can build anywhere they want too. In fact, P needs to have pylon where they want to build, T doesn't even need something like that. How is my ground army argument silly lol? Its the truth, if you don't have those things, and you don't flank, then your P army is gonna melt to superior firepower and range of T units. You bring in meaningless points like air superiority to prove your argument, TvP is not about air superiority. Whoever controls the air doesn't dictate the game like ZvP. And you accuse me of skewing information? lol. Yeah Manner pylons and gas steals do happen, but so what? It's the T player's fault too for letting it happen. And why do you even mention valks/wraiths/bcs in TvP?
by your logic protoss is soooo imba because if terran doesnt siege, protoss army walks over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111
(same thing as saying if u dont use stasis, storm and shuttles, P army melts)
he wasnt talking about air superiority, he was talking about how Protoss air (arbiter, shuttle) can allow p to dominate ground fights with stasis and zealot+storm drops. so protoss can win a ground fight easily, until terran has 3/3. arbiter and shuttle aren't really for air superiority anyway...damagewise that is
instead of dodging the main points, how about u man up and address them straight up? or maybe you already know you can't because not only are you wrong, you have self-proclaimed bias like you're proud to be a non-objective person.
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51447 Posts
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Figures that AzureEye will turn a ZvP thread into a T is imba thread.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
Bisu to me seems like he will only play his best against the very best opponents...he is always kinda risky vs mediocre zergs ;/
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This game is not perfectly balanced.... Its nice to have causes tho..
Do u guys also believe in Santa Claus ? (sorry if I spoiled).
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Ok, let us look just at the most recent data (PL, MST, OSL only):
PL:
Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 3-2 (60%)
ZvP: 8-2 (80%)
PvT: 2-3 (40%)
MST:
Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 3-4 (42.9%)
ZvP: 6-3 (66.7%)
PvT: 3-3 (50%)
OSL:
Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 1-2 (33.3%)
ZvP: 2-1 (66.7%)
PvT: 4-1 (80%)
Total:
TvZ: 7-8 (46.6%)
ZvP: 16-6 (72.7%)
PvT: 9-7 (56.2%)
Which numbers seem too high to you?
Seems like zergs don't have any tough matchups now.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
Zerg was always the better race.
Those numbers don't seem high at all, only not high enough.
Should be a lot higher vs Terrans imo.
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For me, it seems like all P have forgot how to harass Zerg efficently. I mean, how many times in this season you've seen good Storm drop or Reaver drop in PvZ? Even Bisu's epic DT in 1Set came too late to save him from Shine's Hydras.
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Its balanced. Its the players who play the game.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 16 2009 00:33 Vekzel wrote:
For me, it seems like all P have forgot how to harass Zerg efficently. I mean, how many times in this season you've seen good Storm drop or Reaver drop in PvZ? Even Bisu's epic DT in 1Set came too late to save him from Shine's Hydras.
Air-based harass is a huge risk unless the protoss has air control. Losing 2 temps or a reaver could be way worse for protoss than the drop is for zerg,
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Bisu's sairreaver attempts really haven't been working well for quite a long time now. There is a reason why Protoss players haven't been doing a lot of drop style harass. It's because it doesn't work well anymore. I do think Bisu can definitely bring back shuttle use like he used to in the form of 4zealot hatchery snipe drops that he used with great effectiveness.
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Protoss players are just getting sloppy. And in the reverse, Best happens to win a pvz becasue the z was sloppy. It's pretty easy for z to due to bad control or sloppiness lose their entire army. Protoss has so much splash damage that wastes away zergs army in an instant. Corsairs > mass air, Temp, Reaver, Archon > mass ground. See how easy zerg's army can disappear.
The matter for the recent trend = sloppy p's. p's can't dodge a scourge to save their shuttle, can't stop losing temps and dts and especially keep losing obs. When p's were winning they were doing this all the time. And when p's were winning zerg's were sloppy as they don't dodge storms don't snipe anything sending in useless waves just to lose their army to the superior p ball. Z's ground army < P ground army just as P < T.
Listen to Vekzel. Z's always harassing p now-a-days. P's doing shitty harassment because they're too preoccupied with having the perfect defensive base. It's called a great offense ise teh best defence. When z harasses P they don't have much defense at their bases. It's just that P is busy defending that they won't have a chance to attack z. P can use the same strategy. With efficient harassment, they won't need so much defense. P's been playing scared lately >>
So the answer is: Imbalance = a psychological problem!
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United States10774 Posts
On October 16 2009 00:53 Rucky wrote:
Protoss players are just getting sloppy. And in the reverse, Best happens to win a pvz becasue the z was sloppy. It's pretty easy for z to due to bad control or sloppiness lose their entire army. Protoss has so much splash damage that wastes away zergs army in an instant. Corsairs > mass air, Temp, Reaver, Archon > mass ground. See how easy zerg's army can disappear.
The matter for the recent trend = sloppy p's. p's can't dodge a scourge to save their shuttle, can't stop losing temps and dts and especially keep losing obs. When p's were winning they were doing this all the time. And when p's were winning zerg's were sloppy as they don't dodge storms don't snipe anything sending in useless waves just to lose their army to the superior p ball. Z's ground army < P ground army just as P < T.
Listen to Vekzel. Z's always harassing p now-a-days. P's doing shitty harassment because they're too preoccupied with having the perfect defensive base. It's called a great offense ise teh best defence. When z harasses P they don't have much defense at their bases. It's just that P is busy defending that they won't have a chance to attack z. P can use the same strategy. With efficient harassment, they won't need so much defense. P's been playing scared lately >>
So the answer is: Imbalance = a psychological problem!
this is wrong on many levels
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On October 16 2009 00:22 Manit0u wrote:
Ok, let us look just at the most recent data (PL, MST, OSL only):
PL:
Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 3-2 (60%)
ZvP: 8-2 (80%)
PvT: 2-3 (40%)
MST:
Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 3-4 (42.9%)
ZvP: 6-3 (66.7%)
PvT: 3-3 (50%)
OSL:
Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 1-2 (33.3%)
ZvP: 2-1 (66.7%)
PvT: 4-1 (80%)
Total:
TvZ: 7-8 (46.6%)
ZvP: 16-6 (72.7%)
PvT: 9-7 (56.2%)
Which numbers seem too high to you?
Seems like zergs don't have any tough matchups now.
Not long ago, the four gate two archon push seemed unstoppable for a few weeks. But zergs figured it out. Right now, zerg has a build which seems to be nearly unstoppable. As the dozen times before this happened, Protoss will figure it out, maps will change, zerg players will slump, other players will rise.
I have only been around TL regularly for 1 and 1/2 year, and I experienced several of those cycles. People get all worked up about basically nothing. Races have their ups and downs, and right now, Zerg is in top position. It will change again eventually.
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On October 16 2009 00:51 koreasilver wrote:
Bisu's sairreaver attempts really haven't been working well for quite a long time now. There is a reason why Protoss players haven't been doing a lot of drop style harass. It's because it doesn't work well anymore. I do think Bisu can definitely bring back shuttle use like he used to in the form of 4zealot hatchery snipe drops that he used with great effectiveness.
Just supporting the point even more. The fact that p harass isn't working just proves that z's are bringing their A game while P's are bringing their fear game. If Z's are sloppy, i don't see how harass doesn't work as it has worked in the PAST. In the past z's were playing bad and now they're playing great. Don't take the wins away from the players and say the game is imba. The players are just doing a hell of a good job.
edit: To be open minded I'll say this. I understand that p's aren't doing harass because "it just doesn't work well anymore." But does that mean z is just made by the game to be better at stopping p's harassments? Why does it not work anymore. Better z players is one answer. Another could be just the game is imba. (even though p harassment has been around forever and worked) I believe your answer is just that the current type of harassment is not working because z's build is a direct counter to them so P needs to find a "NEW" type of harassment, or just something unfamiliar. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Wait. Is that what everyone's been saying? P just needs a new build? Currently Z build > P build?
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EPT
