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ZvP is imbalanced - Page 20

Forum Index > BW General
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Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
October 14 2009 15:17 GMT
#381
On October 14 2009 23:19 Hot_Bid wrote:
guess what, Z and T players aren't whiney emos. Amirite!!?!?



Apparently you have never read an Artosis post, MISTER
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
bluetrolls
Profile Joined October 2009
United States139 Posts
October 14 2009 15:53 GMT
#382
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/detailed-elo#tblt-1989-1-6-DESC
Camlito
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Australia4040 Posts
October 14 2009 15:58 GMT
#383
On October 15 2009 00:09 OneOther wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2009 23:25 keV. wrote:
On October 14 2009 23:19 Hot_Bid wrote:
because guess what, Z and T players aren't whiney emos. Amirite!!?!?


ZING!

Tassadar, more like TEARsadar if you ask me

ZING terran and zerg players cry the most


lol
sAviOr...
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
October 14 2009 16:07 GMT
#384
On October 15 2009 00:08 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2009 00:03 Manit0u wrote:
On October 14 2009 23:19 Hot_Bid wrote:
Proleague 2007-2009

Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 248-200
ZvP: 216-200
PvT: 268-235

According to this, we should be complaining about TvZ and PvT more right? But those threads don't get made because guess what, Z and T players aren't whiney emos. Amirite!!?!?


Actually, we should only look at the most recent games. The time fram you gave is large enough and I do remember Protosses dominating everything for a while which affects the statistics.
If it was 216-160 (made up this numbers now) and now it's 216-200 for example then it might seem like P's are doing fine while in reality they don't.

We have to wait a month or two to get to any real conclusions. All the maps and meta-game must pass the "beginning of a season" unpredictability and when it goes stable we'll be able to gather enough data.

Well, we all know it goes in cycles, if it comes out even after 2 years, doesn't that support the idea that the recent Z>P trend is just temporary?

YES IS DOES, WHICH IS WHAT I WROTE IN THE OP ASFBYUASFBSAIUFHAB
ModeratorGood content always wins.
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
October 14 2009 16:17 GMT
#385
^ LOL

i think u should just stop reading replies to ur own thread >_>
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
October 14 2009 16:25 GMT
#386
motbob if you agree its just a temporary trend you have a completely different idea of what "imbalanced" means than everyone else in the starcraft playing world.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
October 14 2009 16:38 GMT
#387
On October 15 2009 00:12 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2009 23:05 ArvickHero wrote:
On October 14 2009 22:55 Ftrunkz wrote:
[B]On October 14 2009 22:
so if this will be the next trend of building 9 muta to snipe the templars why not let the zerg waste them on hallucinated templars ???]

Because burning the templars mana on hallu kinda defeats the purpose of keeping them alive... I think a build similar to bisus build 1st game is the answer + Show Spoiler +
corsair heavy relatively early
that or what has been theory crafted a zillion times, DAs.

+ Show Spoiler +
I might be wrong, but corsair heavy builds come in the cost of army size, which is what we saw in game 1, Bisu's rather tiny army (plus no templars)


I really think a game patch that allows you to unwarp templars from archons while it's still building would help a LOT.

You can't? Since people have been glitching DTs through by morphing them. Or is this only for DA but not for Archon? In this case, that's quite dumb.

You can't unmorph either kind of archons. The huge ball of energy must have something to do with being unable to come back.

Maybe it's like mixing urine and wine. Once you start, there's no coming back.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
InToTheWannaB
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4770 Posts
October 14 2009 16:45 GMT
#388
On October 14 2009 23:19 Hot_Bid wrote:
Proleague 2007-2009

Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 248-200
ZvP: 216-200
PvT: 268-235

According to this, we should be complaining about TvZ and PvT more right? But those threads don't get made because guess what, Z and T players aren't whiney emos. Amirite!!?!?

I always knew TvZ was imba! Fucking Irad is gay
When the spirit is not altogether slain, great loss teaches men and women to desire greatly, both for themselves and for others.
a11
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Germany303 Posts
October 14 2009 16:59 GMT
#389
On October 15 2009 00:12 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2009 23:05 ArvickHero wrote:
On October 14 2009 22:55 Ftrunkz wrote:
[B]On October 14 2009 22:
so if this will be the next trend of building 9 muta to snipe the templars why not let the zerg waste them on hallucinated templars ???]

Because burning the templars mana on hallu kinda defeats the purpose of keeping them alive... I think a build similar to bisus build 1st game is the answer + Show Spoiler +
corsair heavy relatively early
that or what has been theory crafted a zillion times, DAs.

+ Show Spoiler +
I might be wrong, but corsair heavy builds come in the cost of army size, which is what we saw in game 1, Bisu's rather tiny army (plus no templars)


I really think a game patch that allows you to unwarp templars from archons while it's still building would help a LOT.

You can't? Since people have been glitching DTs through by morphing them. Or is this only for DA but not for Archon? In this case, that's quite dumb.

You simple have more than two DTs and then morph two of them, hopefully glitching some of the remaining ones up.
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
October 14 2009 17:01 GMT
#390
On October 15 2009 01:45 InToTheWannaB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2009 23:19 Hot_Bid wrote:
Proleague 2007-2009

Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 248-200
ZvP: 216-200
PvT: 268-235

According to this, we should be complaining about TvZ and PvT more right? But those threads don't get made because guess what, Z and T players aren't whiney emos. Amirite!!?!?

I always knew TvZ was imba! Fucking Irad is gay


There is a fucking thread about ZvP imbalance while there are no threads about TvZ imbalance? Unacceptable. TvZ is the most imba matchup (favor of T of course) and the statistics I quoted reflect it. What the hell is 248-200? It's like saying, Hey I switched my race to Z, come kill me Terrans
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-14 17:49:29
October 14 2009 17:49 GMT
#391
Why is everyone crying about problems that don't exist...

SC isn't even possibly or conceivably imbalanced until the highest possible levels of play (Korean progamer level), which means it doesn't affect you.
Hello
Kullosus
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada18 Posts
October 14 2009 17:55 GMT
#392
Look at GomTV Classic Season 2. Nothing but Protoss, In fact it where Bisu asserted his dominance over zergs by defeating Jaedong
Theres the Panda Bear Guy!
lokiM
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3407 Posts
October 14 2009 18:04 GMT
#393
On September 25 2009 22:14 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2009 17:24 lokiM wrote:
I'm guessing you got destroyed by some random zerg, and you are only comparing the pro scene

destination @ iccup zvp = 51% 16,000 games

Outsider @ iccup zvp = 50.89% over 3,000+ games

Neo Medusa @ iccup zvp = 52% with just under 3k games

seems pretty balanced to me..


That's cool, you are giving him shit for compaing random players to the pro scene. Oh wait then you're sourcing ICCup D games to prove map balance at the pro scene.

I posted that against his very first OP, until he edited it up saying he was only talking about the pro scene. Before he edited it, he was just complaining about overal 'imbalance'
You can't fight the feeling.
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5778 Posts
October 14 2009 18:16 GMT
#394
On October 15 2009 02:49 PH wrote:
Why is everyone crying about problems that don't exist...

SC isn't even possibly or conceivably imbalanced until the highest possible levels of play (Korean progamer level), which means it doesn't affect you.

It affects me when all games to watch near starleague finals are ZvZ
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
October 14 2009 19:50 GMT
#395
On October 15 2009 02:55 Kullosus wrote:
Look at GomTV Classic Season 2. Nothing but Protoss, In fact it where Bisu asserted his dominance over zergs by defeating Jaedong

Bisu never beat JD that GOM season.

(He then proceeded to lose to JD in the special event)
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Promises
Profile Joined February 2004
Netherlands1821 Posts
October 14 2009 20:33 GMT
#396
I reckon the feeling of Z>P comes partly from the fact that besides Bisu (and perhaps Kal?) I dont think there has ever been a dominant protoss (that actually got anywhere in MSL/OSL) that reliably beat zergs at that level. I certainly cant remember Nal_Ra, Reach etc being the given winner against Z's, but I do admit that my memory might be skewed.

In the end its always going to to be hard to say what the exact problem is, but when I play the MU (at very, very low level) it seems I have to cover for so many things, while the Zerg doesnt ever have to be all that surprised, at least in the early game. If I dont go Fexp my options are quite clear and counterable, even if scouted a bit late, if I go fexp my options are quite predictable aswell. As far as I know Bisu's been the only one having regular succes against high class Zergs, and that seems to stem more from incredible control on multiple fronts (harass etc) then from just having a "sollution" that everyone can use.
I'm a man of my word, and that word is "unreliable".
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
October 14 2009 20:44 GMT
#397
please close this thread
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7328 Posts
October 14 2009 20:51 GMT
#398
On October 15 2009 01:45 InToTheWannaB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2009 23:19 Hot_Bid wrote:
Proleague 2007-2009

Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 248-200
ZvP: 216-200
PvT: 268-235

According to this, we should be complaining about TvZ and PvT more right? But those threads don't get made because guess what, Z and T players aren't whiney emos. Amirite!!?!?

I always knew TvZ was imba! Fucking Irad is gay



i wish i was at the level where i could exploit the "imba"

=(
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
eMbrace
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1300 Posts
October 14 2009 20:59 GMT
#399
i thought this community was beyond crying about balance issues.

ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
October 14 2009 21:47 GMT
#400
On October 15 2009 00:12 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2009 23:05 ArvickHero wrote:
On October 14 2009 22:55 Ftrunkz wrote:
[B]On October 14 2009 22:
so if this will be the next trend of building 9 muta to snipe the templars why not let the zerg waste them on hallucinated templars ???]

Because burning the templars mana on hallu kinda defeats the purpose of keeping them alive... I think a build similar to bisus build 1st game is the answer + Show Spoiler +
corsair heavy relatively early
that or what has been theory crafted a zillion times, DAs.

+ Show Spoiler +
I might be wrong, but corsair heavy builds come in the cost of army size, which is what we saw in game 1, Bisu's rather tiny army (plus no templars)


I really think a game patch that allows you to unwarp templars from archons while it's still building would help a LOT.

You can't? Since people have been glitching DTs through by morphing them. Or is this only for DA but not for Archon? In this case, that's quite dumb.

I remember asking about it in the thread when Bisu morphed the HT to save them, but got slaughtered for having no storms, with everyone saying no that's not possible.
I think the possibility of being able to morph an Archon to save the HTs from the Mutas and then unmorphing them when the mutas go away is huge, it's a very minor change that won't affect anything else but this, and would make PvZ more balanced.
Writerptrk
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