• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:18
CEST 10:18
KST 17:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon7[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues22LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris76
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy [G] How to watch Korean progamer Streams. Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
alas... i aint gon' lie to u bruh... BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ The Korean Terminology Thread
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group B [ASL20] Ro16 Group A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Is there English video for group selection for ASL
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Iron Harvest: 1920+ Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Collective Intelligence: Tea…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1232 users

ZvP is imbalanced - Page 18

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 47 Next All
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18918 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-14 12:28:57
October 14 2009 12:26 GMT
#341
On September 30 2009 21:31 Kyo Yuy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2009 19:50 Vex wrote:
if ur trying to say ' z is imba ' then your full of shit.
stop crying cos the easiest race to play got a bit more difficult.
the z still needs 2 play faster/smarter/better than a protoss ever would to keep up with even a lesser skilled opponent. (PROOF? go check apm's in progames. p has alot less, always.)

Check the replays for Bisu vs. anyone except Jaedong or by.hero.

Bisu has a higher APM than Zero and still loses to Zero quite often.

Not that this is particularly relevant, but I was under the impression that (Z)ZerO a 450 apm zerg. I thought I read that in a few places around here >.>.
Bisu shouldn't really be used to often to model an imbalance between zerg and protoss. He should more be seen as an exception to the rule more than the standard from which to base - he's one of those types of players that can play well enough to overcome most standard map imbalances (should they be more minute).
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
FirstBorn
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Romania3955 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-14 12:33:56
October 14 2009 12:28 GMT
#342
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 14 2009 21:21 Highways wrote:
Fuck ZvP.

Bisu losing to a Zerg chump, and Proleague already 8-2 ZvP.


Bisu has a history to fuck up when I want him to win. Makes it tought be a Bisu fan
SonuvBob: Yes, the majority of TL is college-aged, and thus clearly stupid.
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
October 14 2009 12:32 GMT
#343
Heheh. This topic bumped is a sure spoiler even without all the blatant spoiling of the posts within it.
Meh
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
October 14 2009 12:32 GMT
#344
On October 14 2009 21:21 Highways wrote:
Fuck ZvP.

+ Show Spoiler +
Bisu losing to a Zerg chump, and Proleague already 8-2 ZvP.


maybe need spoiler tag,

but yea..

i share the same sentiment -_-;;
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
TheTyranid
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Russian Federation4333 Posts
October 14 2009 12:35 GMT
#345
Thought this was a bumped thread made in 2006.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
October 14 2009 12:37 GMT
#346
+ Show Spoiler +
He lost it to himself. Shine played great in game 3 to be honest but it wasn't his fault that Bisu lost units for nothing and didn't provide a challenge.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Kyo Yuy
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1286 Posts
October 14 2009 12:43 GMT
#347
On October 14 2009 21:26 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2009 21:31 Kyo Yuy wrote:
On September 30 2009 19:50 Vex wrote:
if ur trying to say ' z is imba ' then your full of shit.
stop crying cos the easiest race to play got a bit more difficult.
the z still needs 2 play faster/smarter/better than a protoss ever would to keep up with even a lesser skilled opponent. (PROOF? go check apm's in progames. p has alot less, always.)

Check the replays for Bisu vs. anyone except Jaedong or by.hero.

Bisu has a higher APM than Zero and still loses to Zero quite often.

Not that this is particularly relevant, but I was under the impression that (Z)ZerO a 450 apm zerg. I thought I read that in a few places around here >.>.
Bisu shouldn't really be used to often to model an imbalance between zerg and protoss. He should more be seen as an exception to the rule more than the standard from which to base - he's one of those types of players that can play well enough to overcome most standard map imbalances (should they be more minute).

Check the Blizzcon reps that include Zero. Zero is 300 APM in most of the games.
#1 KawaiiRice fan :D
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-14 12:45:03
October 14 2009 12:44 GMT
#348
maybe there are ways to make pvz balanced with the possibilities offered by the game, but the current metagame is seriously broken. toss´ need to develop something new.


maybe keep ur ht in the back next to an archon. vulnerable to hydra flanking though.
maybe keep ur ht in ur base next to cannons until u gathered the critical mass of corsairs. very gas intensive build though..
maybe get a DA. even more gas intensive though and no protoss has figured out a good timing for that so far.
maybe use reavers instead of ht to take on the mass hydras. they can take much more, especially as u can keep them in shuttles to absorb some more shots of the mutas. and they can fire nonstop, so they dont become useless during an ongoing battle like hts do after they casted their one storm. and if the game progresses to the lategame u will need at least 2 reavers anyway to protect ur bases.


im just a noob, so do i miss something with this last suggestion? imho thats the most promising approach.
well, todays games of bisu vs shine once and for all prove that dragoons alone are not enough to protect ur hts.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
red.venom
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4651 Posts
October 14 2009 12:45 GMT
#349
On October 14 2009 21:35 TheTyranid wrote:
Thought this was a bumped thread made in 2006.


These threads have been made since 1.07 came out really.
Broom
Kazius
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Israel1456 Posts
October 14 2009 12:51 GMT
#350
On October 14 2009 21:45 red.venom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2009 21:35 TheTyranid wrote:
Thought this was a bumped thread made in 2006.


These threads have been made since 1.07 came out really.

Yeah, but KeSPA ain't listening since 1.07 either
Friendship is like peeing yourself. Anyone can see it, but only you get that warm feeling.
LeoTheLion
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
China958 Posts
October 14 2009 12:54 GMT
#351
was kespa even around back then?
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. -Chairman Mao
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
October 14 2009 12:55 GMT
#352
Unbelievable as of itself but I don't believe that PvZ is imbalanced anymore. Maps can be bad yeah, but not the MU itself. And like 3 years ago I was on the frontlines of PvZ imba fights. What have you done to me Bisu?
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
October 14 2009 13:01 GMT
#353
I think recent Z>P imbalance is due to Bisu's Arrogance.
✌
Camlito
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Australia4040 Posts
October 14 2009 13:08 GMT
#354
Ok everyone saying it's imbalanced - yes - let's say it is.

What would YOU do to change zerg that can not effect ZvT or change protoss that can not Effect PvT? Change storm to kill lurker in 1 hit?
sAviOr...
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-14 13:11:04
October 14 2009 13:10 GMT
#355
Just for reference:

Players currently qualified for OSL Ro16:
(Z)Jaedong, (Z)type-b, (Z)YellOw[ArnC], (Z)Shine[kaL]
(P)Pusan
(T)fantasy

Players currently qualified for MSL Ro32:
(Z)Calm, (Z)Kwanro, (Z)Jaedong, (Z)EffOrt, (Z)ZerO, (Z)Saint, (Z)type-b, (Z)Hyuk
(P)Bisu, (P)Movie, (P)Stats
(T)Iris, (T)Canata, (T)Hwasin
✌
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
October 14 2009 13:16 GMT
#356
On October 14 2009 22:08 Camlito wrote:
Ok everyone saying it's imbalanced - yes - let's say it is.

What would YOU do to change zerg that can not effect ZvT or change protoss that can not Effect PvT? Change storm to kill lurker in 1 hit?

I think you're taking a much too liberal interpretation of "imbalanced", as it's used in this thread. The rational people who are saying ZvP is imbalanced right now aren't referring to some serious defect in BW (come on, everyone knows the game has great balance) but rather somewhere in the current maps, Protoss's strategic arsenal, and/or Protoss's talent pool.

Nobody can deny that ZvP is extremely imbalanced right now—in the sense that Zergs are winning over 60% of their games against Protoss and dominating in all leagues.

The obvious solution, as HB posted out way earlier in this thread and I'm sure has been beaten into the ground by now, is to change the maps to restore balance to the matchup. But it doesn't look like that will happen for at least another few months.
✌
Womwomwom
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
5930 Posts
October 14 2009 13:17 GMT
#357
On October 14 2009 22:08 Camlito wrote:
Ok everyone saying it's imbalanced - yes - let's say it is.

What would YOU do to change zerg that can not effect ZvT or change protoss that can not Effect PvT? Change storm to kill lurker in 1 hit?


Change Maelstrom and Feedback for one. Make Feedback the researchable spell and have Maelstrom the one that Dark Archons begin with.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
October 14 2009 13:24 GMT
#358
i have a slightly off topic question: why did pro toss players stop using disruption web? it used to be really popular with sair reaver but even when we do see sair reaver these days there is no web
manner
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
October 14 2009 13:34 GMT
#359
On October 14 2009 22:24 d_so wrote:
i have a slightly off topic question: why did pro toss players stop using disruption web? it used to be really popular with sair reaver but even when we do see sair reaver these days there is no web

? Assuming it's not just a fake sair reaver into mass speedlot, there always is disruption web.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
barbahaba0
Profile Joined January 2009
Israel226 Posts
October 14 2009 13:38 GMT
#360
just saw the shine /bisu games..... and...
+ Show Spoiler +
ok it may seem pvz is imballanced but thats just because zergs figured a way to crack the forge fe
what i've seen in shine last match which was done allready by jaedong vs bisu on destination last proleague

+ Show Spoiler +
so if this will be the next trend of building 9 muta to snipe the templars why not let the zerg waste them on hallucinated templars ???
game over dude .... game over!!!!
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 47 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 43m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 122
trigger 23
ProTech13
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1909
actioN 222
Movie 145
Leta 118
Killer 117
BeSt 111
Backho 107
sSak 50
Aegong 49
Sharp 48
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 44
soO 27
zelot 22
sorry 20
Bale 14
NotJumperer 10
Sacsri 5
Dota 2
The International69780
Dendi279
BananaSlamJamma16
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K762
shoxiejesuss413
olofmeister193
allub1
Other Games
ceh9333
C9.Mang0292
Mew2King79
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick875
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos312
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
1h 43m
Cure vs SHIN
Reynor vs Zoun
Kung Fu Cup
3h 43m
TaeJa vs SHIN
ByuN vs Creator
The PondCast
4h 43m
RSL Revival
1d 1h
Classic vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Maru
Online Event
1d 3h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 3h
BSL Team Wars
1d 10h
RSL Revival
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Clem vs herO
Serral vs Bunny
Reynor vs Zoun
Cosmonarchy
2 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
[ Show More ]
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Wardi Open
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Copa Latinoamericana 4
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
EC S1
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.