• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:19
CET 22:19
KST 06:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament
Tourneys
$100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1274 users

ZvP is imbalanced - Page 18

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 47 Next All
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-14 12:28:57
October 14 2009 12:26 GMT
#341
On September 30 2009 21:31 Kyo Yuy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2009 19:50 Vex wrote:
if ur trying to say ' z is imba ' then your full of shit.
stop crying cos the easiest race to play got a bit more difficult.
the z still needs 2 play faster/smarter/better than a protoss ever would to keep up with even a lesser skilled opponent. (PROOF? go check apm's in progames. p has alot less, always.)

Check the replays for Bisu vs. anyone except Jaedong or by.hero.

Bisu has a higher APM than Zero and still loses to Zero quite often.

Not that this is particularly relevant, but I was under the impression that (Z)ZerO a 450 apm zerg. I thought I read that in a few places around here >.>.
Bisu shouldn't really be used to often to model an imbalance between zerg and protoss. He should more be seen as an exception to the rule more than the standard from which to base - he's one of those types of players that can play well enough to overcome most standard map imbalances (should they be more minute).
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
FirstBorn
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Romania3955 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-14 12:33:56
October 14 2009 12:28 GMT
#342
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 14 2009 21:21 Highways wrote:
Fuck ZvP.

Bisu losing to a Zerg chump, and Proleague already 8-2 ZvP.


Bisu has a history to fuck up when I want him to win. Makes it tought be a Bisu fan
SonuvBob: Yes, the majority of TL is college-aged, and thus clearly stupid.
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
October 14 2009 12:32 GMT
#343
Heheh. This topic bumped is a sure spoiler even without all the blatant spoiling of the posts within it.
Meh
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
October 14 2009 12:32 GMT
#344
On October 14 2009 21:21 Highways wrote:
Fuck ZvP.

+ Show Spoiler +
Bisu losing to a Zerg chump, and Proleague already 8-2 ZvP.


maybe need spoiler tag,

but yea..

i share the same sentiment -_-;;
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
TheTyranid
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Russian Federation4333 Posts
October 14 2009 12:35 GMT
#345
Thought this was a bumped thread made in 2006.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
October 14 2009 12:37 GMT
#346
+ Show Spoiler +
He lost it to himself. Shine played great in game 3 to be honest but it wasn't his fault that Bisu lost units for nothing and didn't provide a challenge.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Kyo Yuy
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1286 Posts
October 14 2009 12:43 GMT
#347
On October 14 2009 21:26 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2009 21:31 Kyo Yuy wrote:
On September 30 2009 19:50 Vex wrote:
if ur trying to say ' z is imba ' then your full of shit.
stop crying cos the easiest race to play got a bit more difficult.
the z still needs 2 play faster/smarter/better than a protoss ever would to keep up with even a lesser skilled opponent. (PROOF? go check apm's in progames. p has alot less, always.)

Check the replays for Bisu vs. anyone except Jaedong or by.hero.

Bisu has a higher APM than Zero and still loses to Zero quite often.

Not that this is particularly relevant, but I was under the impression that (Z)ZerO a 450 apm zerg. I thought I read that in a few places around here >.>.
Bisu shouldn't really be used to often to model an imbalance between zerg and protoss. He should more be seen as an exception to the rule more than the standard from which to base - he's one of those types of players that can play well enough to overcome most standard map imbalances (should they be more minute).

Check the Blizzcon reps that include Zero. Zero is 300 APM in most of the games.
#1 KawaiiRice fan :D
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-14 12:45:03
October 14 2009 12:44 GMT
#348
maybe there are ways to make pvz balanced with the possibilities offered by the game, but the current metagame is seriously broken. toss´ need to develop something new.


maybe keep ur ht in the back next to an archon. vulnerable to hydra flanking though.
maybe keep ur ht in ur base next to cannons until u gathered the critical mass of corsairs. very gas intensive build though..
maybe get a DA. even more gas intensive though and no protoss has figured out a good timing for that so far.
maybe use reavers instead of ht to take on the mass hydras. they can take much more, especially as u can keep them in shuttles to absorb some more shots of the mutas. and they can fire nonstop, so they dont become useless during an ongoing battle like hts do after they casted their one storm. and if the game progresses to the lategame u will need at least 2 reavers anyway to protect ur bases.


im just a noob, so do i miss something with this last suggestion? imho thats the most promising approach.
well, todays games of bisu vs shine once and for all prove that dragoons alone are not enough to protect ur hts.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
red.venom
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4651 Posts
October 14 2009 12:45 GMT
#349
On October 14 2009 21:35 TheTyranid wrote:
Thought this was a bumped thread made in 2006.


These threads have been made since 1.07 came out really.
Broom
Kazius
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Israel1456 Posts
October 14 2009 12:51 GMT
#350
On October 14 2009 21:45 red.venom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2009 21:35 TheTyranid wrote:
Thought this was a bumped thread made in 2006.


These threads have been made since 1.07 came out really.

Yeah, but KeSPA ain't listening since 1.07 either
Friendship is like peeing yourself. Anyone can see it, but only you get that warm feeling.
LeoTheLion
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
China958 Posts
October 14 2009 12:54 GMT
#351
was kespa even around back then?
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. -Chairman Mao
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
October 14 2009 12:55 GMT
#352
Unbelievable as of itself but I don't believe that PvZ is imbalanced anymore. Maps can be bad yeah, but not the MU itself. And like 3 years ago I was on the frontlines of PvZ imba fights. What have you done to me Bisu?
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
October 14 2009 13:01 GMT
#353
I think recent Z>P imbalance is due to Bisu's Arrogance.
✌
Camlito
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Australia4040 Posts
October 14 2009 13:08 GMT
#354
Ok everyone saying it's imbalanced - yes - let's say it is.

What would YOU do to change zerg that can not effect ZvT or change protoss that can not Effect PvT? Change storm to kill lurker in 1 hit?
sAviOr...
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-14 13:11:04
October 14 2009 13:10 GMT
#355
Just for reference:

Players currently qualified for OSL Ro16:
(Z)Jaedong, (Z)type-b, (Z)YellOw[ArnC], (Z)Shine[kaL]
(P)Pusan
(T)fantasy

Players currently qualified for MSL Ro32:
(Z)Calm, (Z)Kwanro, (Z)Jaedong, (Z)EffOrt, (Z)ZerO, (Z)Saint, (Z)type-b, (Z)Hyuk
(P)Bisu, (P)Movie, (P)Stats
(T)Iris, (T)Canata, (T)Hwasin
✌
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
October 14 2009 13:16 GMT
#356
On October 14 2009 22:08 Camlito wrote:
Ok everyone saying it's imbalanced - yes - let's say it is.

What would YOU do to change zerg that can not effect ZvT or change protoss that can not Effect PvT? Change storm to kill lurker in 1 hit?

I think you're taking a much too liberal interpretation of "imbalanced", as it's used in this thread. The rational people who are saying ZvP is imbalanced right now aren't referring to some serious defect in BW (come on, everyone knows the game has great balance) but rather somewhere in the current maps, Protoss's strategic arsenal, and/or Protoss's talent pool.

Nobody can deny that ZvP is extremely imbalanced right now—in the sense that Zergs are winning over 60% of their games against Protoss and dominating in all leagues.

The obvious solution, as HB posted out way earlier in this thread and I'm sure has been beaten into the ground by now, is to change the maps to restore balance to the matchup. But it doesn't look like that will happen for at least another few months.
✌
Womwomwom
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
5930 Posts
October 14 2009 13:17 GMT
#357
On October 14 2009 22:08 Camlito wrote:
Ok everyone saying it's imbalanced - yes - let's say it is.

What would YOU do to change zerg that can not effect ZvT or change protoss that can not Effect PvT? Change storm to kill lurker in 1 hit?


Change Maelstrom and Feedback for one. Make Feedback the researchable spell and have Maelstrom the one that Dark Archons begin with.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
October 14 2009 13:24 GMT
#358
i have a slightly off topic question: why did pro toss players stop using disruption web? it used to be really popular with sair reaver but even when we do see sair reaver these days there is no web
manner
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
October 14 2009 13:34 GMT
#359
On October 14 2009 22:24 d_so wrote:
i have a slightly off topic question: why did pro toss players stop using disruption web? it used to be really popular with sair reaver but even when we do see sair reaver these days there is no web

? Assuming it's not just a fake sair reaver into mass speedlot, there always is disruption web.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
barbahaba0
Profile Joined January 2009
Israel226 Posts
October 14 2009 13:38 GMT
#360
just saw the shine /bisu games..... and...
+ Show Spoiler +
ok it may seem pvz is imballanced but thats just because zergs figured a way to crack the forge fe
what i've seen in shine last match which was done allready by jaedong vs bisu on destination last proleague

+ Show Spoiler +
so if this will be the next trend of building 9 muta to snipe the templars why not let the zerg waste them on hallucinated templars ???
game over dude .... game over!!!!
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 47 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 379
JuggernautJason165
ProTech145
Nathanias 79
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17611
Shuttle 349
Hyun 108
NaDa 6
Dota 2
420jenkins1012
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 520
Counter-Strike
fl0m1243
byalli600
Other Games
Grubby4322
tarik_tv3630
FrodaN1984
Beastyqt813
ceh9538
Mew2King129
XaKoH 96
Chillindude59
ZombieGrub39
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 78
• Adnapsc2 7
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 39
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV1573
Other Games
• imaqtpie2467
• Shiphtur323
• tFFMrPink 13
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
11h 41m
WardiTV Invitational
14h 41m
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Big Brain Bouts
1d 19h
Elazer vs Nicoract
Reynor vs Scarlett
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-12-22
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.