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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On September 30 2009 16:01 Misrah wrote:
and i am trying to make a point that through the ups and downs- look at what happened????? it turned out even! you are making a fuss about something that has occurred in the past, is occurring now and will in the future.
But in the end it all evens out. so there is no imba, only stages of dominance, that is followed with stages of weakness.
it's a cycle. yes i did read the op- my words don't seem to affect your logic, i was hoping that numbers would.
That list has everything to do with what i am trying to tell you. but you brushed it off. i am done wasting time with this.
+ Show Spoiler +I AGREE WITH YOU GODDAMN IT WOULD PEOPLE READ THE FUCKING OP PLEASE
I AGREE THAT THE MATCHUP WILL EVEN OUT EVENTUALLY
I EVEN EDITED THE OP TO REFLECT THAT FACT
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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^ ^ ^ If I could post something that said just LOL, I would have done that.
But in its place, I put this post here.
Bisu V Jeadong spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +In a world of Protoss that could play like Bisu curb stomping Jaedong the other night, the discussion would be reversed. Starcraft is a reflection of the skill of the player. This is what makes it good. The "imballances" being map, race, or otherwise, are minimal enough to really not matter. Thats why its so great. Skill is the determining factor in victory.
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To be fair about Bisu vs Jaedong...+ Show Spoiler +
Bisu played solidly, Jaedong played like garbage. It wasn't a match you can look at to decide these kinds of things.
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Why did you change the first part of your OP? I definately don't agree. There are underlying imbalances with the races, I have no idea how anyone thinks there wouldn't be.
Maps can balance these out a bit but I think some of you people place WAY too much emphasis on maps.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On September 30 2009 18:25 Foucault wrote:
Why did you change the first part of your OP? I definately don't agree. There are underlying imbalances with the races, I have no idea how anyone thinks there wouldn't be.
Maps can balance these out a bit but I think some of you people place WAY too much emphasis on maps.
Well, in my opinion it's possible to make a ~100% ZvP map between players of equal level. It's also possible to make a ~100% PvZ map. It follows that you can make a map of any balance you want, including 50%. I could be wrong, but I'm a total believer of the power of maps to correct imbalance.
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On September 26 2009 01:56 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2009 01:45 OneOther wrote:On September 26 2009 01:43 Foucault wrote:On September 26 2009 00:28 FoBuLouS wrote:
What happened to corsair reaver? I haven't seen any of that in a long while. Yeah, protoss needs to use this more or at least reavers. most of maps aren't that good for sair/reaver these days. plus, most protoss players can't execute sair/reaver because it requires more multitasking and has less room for error. Yeah it requires quite alot of micro and control which makes it a risky build. That's one thing I consider imbalanced with PvZ, the fact that protoss is so much more fragile. One thing that's really annoying is when protoss makes all these fun strats with reaver/sair and what not and after playing around for a while zerg kills him with mass hydra. The simplicity in ZvP makes it a pretty clear-cut matchup as opposed to PvZ where protoss must be aware of tech switches and brutal flanks all the time. That's another reason why many of these big new maps sucks PvZ, because protoss is so easily flankable
WOW.
What is wrong with you. I have never seen anyone make so many contradicting replys in one thread before.
You keep saying maps does not change the balance, and at the same time you again and again brings up this example of big maps favoring zerg and saying big maps makes it too difficult for protoss.
Plz stop it, it makes my head explode.
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if ur trying to say ' z is imba ' then your full of shit.
stop crying cos the easiest race to play got a bit more difficult.
the z still needs 2 play faster/smarter/better than a protoss ever would to keep up with even a lesser skilled opponent. (PROOF? go check apm's in progames. p has alot less, always.)
User was banned for this post.
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On September 30 2009 18:27 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2009 18:25 Foucault wrote:
Why did you change the first part of your OP? I definately don't agree. There are underlying imbalances with the races, I have no idea how anyone thinks there wouldn't be.
Maps can balance these out a bit but I think some of you people place WAY too much emphasis on maps. Well, in my opinion it's possible to make a ~100% ZvP map between players of equal level. It's also possible to make a ~100% PvZ map. It follows that you can make a map of any balance you want, including 50%. I could be wrong, but I'm a total believer of the power of maps to correct imbalance.
Like I said: "Maps can balance these out a bit but I think some of you people place WAY too much emphasis on maps."
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On September 30 2009 19:47 Ota Solgryn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2009 01:56 Foucault wrote:On September 26 2009 01:45 OneOther wrote:On September 26 2009 01:43 Foucault wrote:On September 26 2009 00:28 FoBuLouS wrote:
What happened to corsair reaver? I haven't seen any of that in a long while. Yeah, protoss needs to use this more or at least reavers. most of maps aren't that good for sair/reaver these days. plus, most protoss players can't execute sair/reaver because it requires more multitasking and has less room for error. Yeah it requires quite alot of micro and control which makes it a risky build. That's one thing I consider imbalanced with PvZ, the fact that protoss is so much more fragile. One thing that's really annoying is when protoss makes all these fun strats with reaver/sair and what not and after playing around for a while zerg kills him with mass hydra. The simplicity in ZvP makes it a pretty clear-cut matchup as opposed to PvZ where protoss must be aware of tech switches and brutal flanks all the time. That's another reason why many of these big new maps sucks PvZ, because protoss is so easily flankable WOW. What is wrong with you. I have never seen anyone make so many contradicting replys in one thread before. You keep saying maps does not change the balance, and at the same time you again and again brings up this example of big maps favoring zerg and saying big maps makes it too difficult for protoss. Plz stop it, it makes my head explode.
Yeah big maps favors zerg over protoss. However, regardless of maps protoss is still at an disadvantage in this matchup.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On September 30 2009 19:50 Vex wrote:
if ur trying to say ' z is imba ' then your full of shit.
stop crying cos the easiest race to play got a bit more difficult.
the z still needs 2 play faster/smarter/better than a protoss ever would to keep up with even a lesser skilled opponent. (PROOF? go check apm's in progames. p has alot less, always.)
I can't take the stupid anymore... kill me now.
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On September 30 2009 19:54 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2009 19:47 Ota Solgryn wrote:On September 26 2009 01:56 Foucault wrote:On September 26 2009 01:45 OneOther wrote:On September 26 2009 01:43 Foucault wrote:On September 26 2009 00:28 FoBuLouS wrote:
What happened to corsair reaver? I haven't seen any of that in a long while. Yeah, protoss needs to use this more or at least reavers. most of maps aren't that good for sair/reaver these days. plus, most protoss players can't execute sair/reaver because it requires more multitasking and has less room for error. Yeah it requires quite alot of micro and control which makes it a risky build. That's one thing I consider imbalanced with PvZ, the fact that protoss is so much more fragile. One thing that's really annoying is when protoss makes all these fun strats with reaver/sair and what not and after playing around for a while zerg kills him with mass hydra. The simplicity in ZvP makes it a pretty clear-cut matchup as opposed to PvZ where protoss must be aware of tech switches and brutal flanks all the time. That's another reason why many of these big new maps sucks PvZ, because protoss is so easily flankable WOW. What is wrong with you. I have never seen anyone make so many contradicting replys in one thread before. You keep saying maps does not change the balance, and at the same time you again and again brings up this example of big maps favoring zerg and saying big maps makes it too difficult for protoss. Plz stop it, it makes my head explode. Yeah big maps favors zerg over protoss. However, regardless of maps protoss is still at an disadvantage in this matchup.
LOL, I'm not even gonna point it out, lets just let it hang there. ^^ omg
hahahaha
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Russian Federation405 Posts
Jaedong vs Protosses
Total 156 games: 102–54 (65.4%)
Best Streak — 10 wins (2008.07.05–29)
Worst Streak — 4 losses (2006.12.07–2007.02.05)
Current — 3 losses
Notes — Bo3 in (round parenthesis), Bo5 in [square parenthesis]
2006.02—2006.07 / 8 games: 6–2 (84.6%) (WW) (WW) L W W L
2006.08—2007.03 / 17 games: 10–7 (58.8%) (WW) (WW) W (WLW) (LWW) L L (LL) W L
2006 Season / 25 games: 16–9 (64%)
2007.04—2007.08 27 games: 16–11 (59.3%) (LWL) W L (LWW) W W W L W W [LLWL] (WLW) (LWW) (WLW)
2007.09—2008.03 / 21 games: 15–6 (71.4%) L W L (WW) (WW) W [LWWW] W W L W L [LWWW]
2007 Season / 48 games: 31–17 (64.6%)
2008.03—2008.09 / 28 games: 23–5 (82.1%) L W W (WW) (WW) L W W [WWW] [WWW] (WW) (LWL) (WW) (WLW) (WW)
2008 Season (st half) / 28 games: 23–5 (82.1%)
2008.09—2009.03 / 34 games: 20–14 (58.8%) W L (LWL) (WW) (WLL) W L (LWL) W W L (WW) W L W W W L [LWLWW] (LWW)
2009.03—2009.09 / 21 games: 12–9 (57.1%) L (LWW) W (LWW) W L L W (WW) W L (WW) (LL) L
2008-09 Season / 55 games: 32–23 (58.2%)
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On September 30 2009 19:50 Vex wrote:
if ur trying to say ' z is imba ' then your full of shit.
stop crying cos the easiest race to play got a bit more difficult.
the z still needs 2 play faster/smarter/better than a protoss ever would to keep up with even a lesser skilled opponent. (PROOF? go check apm's in progames. p has alot less, always.)
Wow!
If only you'd posted sooner, we'd been spared of 16 pages of diarrhea!
Guys, quit arguing and go to sleep, our hero here has solved this case.
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On September 30 2009 19:50 Vex wrote:
if ur trying to say ' z is imba ' then your full of shit.
stop crying cos the easiest race to play got a bit more difficult.
the z still needs 2 play faster/smarter/better than a protoss ever would to keep up with even a lesser skilled opponent. (PROOF? go check apm's in progames. p has alot less, always.)
Check the replays for Bisu vs. anyone except Jaedong or by.hero.
Bisu has a higher APM than Zero and still loses to Zero quite often.
FYI: APM =/= skill =/= difficulty
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if ur trying to say ' z is imba ' then your full of shit.
stop crying cos the easiest race to play got a bit more difficult.
the z still needs 2 play faster/smarter/better than a protoss ever would to keep up with even a lesser skilled opponent. (PROOF? go check apm's in progames. p has alot less, always.)
Jhezzaz what a tragic figure.
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On September 30 2009 19:54 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2009 19:47 Ota Solgryn wrote:On September 26 2009 01:56 Foucault wrote:On September 26 2009 01:45 OneOther wrote:On September 26 2009 01:43 Foucault wrote:On September 26 2009 00:28 FoBuLouS wrote:
What happened to corsair reaver? I haven't seen any of that in a long while. Yeah, protoss needs to use this more or at least reavers. most of maps aren't that good for sair/reaver these days. plus, most protoss players can't execute sair/reaver because it requires more multitasking and has less room for error. Yeah it requires quite alot of micro and control which makes it a risky build. That's one thing I consider imbalanced with PvZ, the fact that protoss is so much more fragile. One thing that's really annoying is when protoss makes all these fun strats with reaver/sair and what not and after playing around for a while zerg kills him with mass hydra. The simplicity in ZvP makes it a pretty clear-cut matchup as opposed to PvZ where protoss must be aware of tech switches and brutal flanks all the time. That's another reason why many of these big new maps sucks PvZ, because protoss is so easily flankable WOW. What is wrong with you. I have never seen anyone make so many contradicting replys in one thread before. You keep saying maps does not change the balance, and at the same time you again and again brings up this example of big maps favoring zerg and saying big maps makes it too difficult for protoss. Plz stop it, it makes my head explode. Yeah big maps favors zerg over protoss. However, regardless of maps protoss is still at an disadvantage in this matchup.
Stick to playing terran.
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i feel that the game is still evolving. Protoss hasnt evolved yet? remember when protoss used to win everything?
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On October 01 2009 02:14 HiHiByeBye wrote:
i feel that the game is still evolving. Protoss hasnt evolved yet? remember when protoss used to win everything?
You mean the whopping 2 months or so that it happened, in the 10 years of progaming history during which Protoss only won the OSL in the fall or sometimes not at all? Vaguely.
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Latvia2350 Posts
On October 01 2009 02:33 Kyo Yuy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2009 02:14 HiHiByeBye wrote:
i feel that the game is still evolving. Protoss hasnt evolved yet? remember when protoss used to win everything? You mean the whopping 2 months or so that it happened, in the 10 years of progaming history during which Protoss only won the OSL in the fall or sometimes not at all? Vaguely.
The damn terrans =[
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Fuck ZvP.
+ Show Spoiler +Bisu losing to a Zerg chump, and Proleague already 8-2 ZvP
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EPT
