EPTassuming he keeps practicing hard there's no doubt that he will stay at the top.
Woes of Fantasy - Page 3
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Ideas
United States8141 Posts
assuming he keeps practicing hard there's no doubt that he will stay at the top. | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On September 07 2009 13:19 meegrean wrote: Fantasy is overrated. He only focuses on the OSL while Fixed it for you. No, seriously, I don't particularly like fantasy myself, but I don't think he's overrated. He's probably the best Terran after Flash skill-wise and definitely achievement-wise. I think he's also worse than (not quite as good as?) Jaedong, probably Calm and maybe Bisu right now as well, but any way you look at it he's top 5 in the world right now - "overrated" is a silly word to use for someone in that position. | ||
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DM20
Canada544 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Fantasy: I was only aware yesterday that they decided on me to play in the ace match today. It wasn't guaranteed that I will play today, and I had a brilliant strategy prepared so I was confident. It was a strategy that would have worked regardless of who used it, so I am thankful to coach iloveoov and Boxer for giving me the chance. hes got the mechanics but not the mind. | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
On September 07 2009 13:14 konadora wrote: yes because even without those, he has the mechanics, micro and macro to play well. Maybe like Flash? No. Fantasy's MnM play is seriously lacking compared to Flash's. I think that shows a weakness in multi-tasking. =/ | ||
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NukeTheStars
United States277 Posts
But, I've been commentating since last year, and Fantasy's games were some of the first ones I casted. I remember what it was like watching those games. He was known for his solid TvT, but he was an underdog in every other match-up. I was probably more cynical of Fantasy than most people when he hit his first OSL final. Moving up through the Batoo OSL, I was still baffled that he managed to move so far up into these leagues. But... something changed. Fantasy kept getting better. He kept filling the holes in his play. He started throwing out all of the standard Terran builds and going for a style all his own. His mechanics got better. His plays were smarter (although, like every other Terran out there, he still has his goof-up moments). The Batoo OSL finals is when it really hit me... Fantasy was good - damn good. He held his own against a player who should've crushed him 3-0. Ever since the Batoo OSL finals, he's continued to ramp up his play. His vs. Protoss is incredible, his TvT is still rock-solid, and his vs. Zerg is still inspiring. Hell, we can't even laugh about his medic/marine control anymore. So, yes, Fantasy is good and only getting better. Asking "Would a player win if he didn't blah blah blah" is missing the point, really. To be honest, I think the entire op misses the point of build orders and play styles in general. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On September 07 2009 13:50 ghrur wrote: No. Fantasy's MnM play is seriously lacking compared to Flash's. I think that shows a weakness in multi-tasking. =/ that's only one aspect (and possibly the only weakness of his TvZ) which everyone is just bashing on i don't deny that fantasy's mnm overall management (not micro-specific, just overall management) is less favorable compared to Flash, but on other aspects, he's just slightly worse than Flash (i didn't say he was = Flash) | ||
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
Im not sure what the point of most was exactly, but us fans have no way to rank players mechanical abilities with high accuracy, its pretty much just conjecture. As for fantasy being second best skill wise...this season you have to give that to Iris, and to be honest most of the perennial terran powerhouses played pretty badly or mediocre this season, Sea,Mind, Midas, Firebathero were mehhh,however Light played fantastically in PL and skyhigh was also somewhat notable. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2009 13:19 meegrean wrote: Fantasy is overrated. He only focuses on the OSL while easily dropping out of every other league. He tends to get owned while playing standard so that's why he has to come up with this vulture harass bullshit. His "creative" play doesn't really impress me all that much. I only like to watch him choke. Terrans I prefer to watch playing instead of Fantasy at the moment are: Flash, Leta, Iris, SkyHigh, ForGG, Nada, Sea The same could have been said of Boxer in 2003-2005. His standard play didn't compare with Nada or Oov, but his creative play drove his success. Why does Boxer's creative play make him the Emperor, and Fantasy's play get called "vulture harass bullshit"? Would Fantasy be where he is without Boxer or Oov? Of course not. But how does that diminish his success? Coaching has always played an instrumental role in the development of players, both in Starcraft, and in athletic sports. | ||
intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
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lighter
United States152 Posts
if flash sucked at macro, would he be that great? if bisu sucked at pvz, would he be that great? if boxer sucked with mm would he be that great? fantasy is GOOD with harass and valks, so he naturally uses it a lot. dunno, maybe i just didnt interpret the post properly, but you cant hypothetically take away what a player specializes in and still ask if theyre a good player. | ||
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
On September 07 2009 14:02 Railz wrote: If Fantasy can find the killer instinct that Oov had, I'm pretty sure JD would become the underdog in a BoX between the two of them. As of right now, he is probably still the number one terran solely based on mechanics alone which is pretty scary. Again how do you people substantiate a statement like that? | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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Initial_H.C.
Canada560 Posts
We should all know by now that Oov and Boxer helps Fantasy out a lot in build orders and strategies. For example, the Ace match in the PL Grand Finals, Boxer thought of that build as noted from the interview. My guess is that he does contribute into formulating builds/timings/strategies while discussing with Oov and Boxer but we don't exactly know that unless we are told by interviews or something. Fantasy's role is probably adjusting the build orders and to proper timings since he is the player executing it, thus refines the build/strategy. For now, I don't know if he is actually a creative genius in Starcraft, but he at least understands what he's doing with the correct micro/macro to pull it off. Fantasy is no doubt one of the best Terran players right now and with a little more experience I believe he'll be a huge force to reckon with. So many of his games are so entertaining to watch and I'm just looking forward to what he is going to pull of next. I thought he would fall off the radar after losing to Stork from his first OSL final but he is showing us that he is able to cling on with the top players. I'll be happy for him if he finally wins a title and hopefully against a great opponent too! Fantasy Fighting~! | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2009 14:08 Initial_H.C. wrote: We should all know by now that Oov and Boxer helps Fantasy out a lot in build orders and strategies. For example, the Ace match in the PL Grand Finals, Boxer thought of that build as noted from the interview. My guess is that he does contribute into formulating builds/timings/strategies while discussing with Oov and Boxer but we don't exactly know that unless we are told by interviews or something. Fantasy's role is probably adjusting the build orders and to proper timings since he is the player executing it, thus refines the build/strategy. For now, I don't know if he is actually a creative genius in Starcraft, but he at least understands what he's doing with the correct micro/macro to pull it off. I've said this before, there is definitely something that Fantasy has, that Oov and Boxer see in him, that makes him good. The idea that he's just "taking their builds" is ludicrous, because if that's all it took, Canata would have taken an individual title 3 years ago, and Mong would be top 20 in Kespa by now. SOMETHING about Fantasy made Oov choose him. If Fantasy was just "another mediocre Terran", then SKT1 could have bought another Terran; its certainly not a team averse to spending money to bring in new talent where it's needed. Something made Fantasy more than that though. It's no small feat to take in 8 years of Starcraft experience from two of the undisputed masters of the game. Fantasy is not just taking builds and strategies from Oov and Boxer--he is learning this game at a level that no one person could do on their own. His continued advancement is a testament to that. A D-level player on ICCup doesn't suddenly skyrocket up to B-level by repeatedly copying progamer builds--he has to attain a greater understanding of the game to get there. Fantasy could not have moved up as far has he has since the Incruit OSL if he has not also been learning more and more. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Either way I respect his skill and am worried whenever someone I like is playing him. Here's an interesting thought though... if Flash had the coaching that Fantasy was getting now, is it reasonable to think he'd be the best Terran, if not player, to ever live? Shame we could never see something like that. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
Now, I don't think his Fantasy build is any more creative than Flash's early Goliath/MnM anti-zerg build. I also don't totally disagree with those who say he can't adapt. However, how soon have you forgotten his clutch mined-out tank push to beat Jaedong? If that isn't clutch adaptation under pressure, I don't know what is... | ||
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
unlike bisu and flash, and even unlike effort and forgg and leta and stork and jangbi, fantasy has never been #1 on TL's power rank. he's never had a month of dominance. i think that ability to be not just an interesting and exciting but a commanding player is something he'll grow into or not | ||
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