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This is a hack. - Page 7

Forum Index > BW General
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Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
September 04 2009 05:10 GMT
#121
On September 04 2009 14:01 wok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2009 13:55 Nevuk wrote:
Really good players who probably have all their mouse click timings memorized for the mouse they use might not want to use this. (It shouldn't be forced on, should be an option to disable in the launcher)

You guys are smearing my stuff! It's good, I promise. there is no "timing" memorized. It's just "as fast as I can that it'll still register."

Haha but I mean like some people might be used to the lag in their mouses, most pros are very picky about their mice and keyboards iirc, always using the same ones.
wok
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States504 Posts
September 04 2009 05:10 GMT
#122
It's true but also meaningless.

Without my script, you're restricted from drag selecting for a moment or so when pressing a or p. The only time after pressing a or p where you're drag selecting is if you either
a.) start chatting.
b.) press escape

In both cases the alternative timeout of .5 seconds is plenty long enough so you don't miss a click, and plenty short enough so that after pressing escape you're good to go with selecting. I might consider pushing .5 to .25, but I REALLY don't think it's necessary. Please just try before commenting on how useful it is.
I'll race you to defeatism... you win.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-04 05:21:12
September 04 2009 05:20 GMT
#123
I drag select immediately after pressing P when sending probes to mine from nexus' (to select my probes). That's the only time I can think of for that that would be common at all, and it is probably a bad habit.

I would try it but you took down the link haha. I'm saying that I'm almost positive that I would use it, but that there should be an option to allow someone not to use it if it was built-in to the launcher. (Like how you can turn off autoreplay in chaoslauncher although very few people would ever want to do that).
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
September 04 2009 05:24 GMT
#124
so at best this would make older mouses the same as newer mouses in click response time, and at worst this would have no effect on newer mouses? Not considering that it could actually mess up newer mouses' click times.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
September 04 2009 05:34 GMT
#125
Just tested, I don't think there's anyway anyone would be fast enough to override the drag select thing. The intermittent . is really really annoying.
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
September 04 2009 05:50 GMT
#126
On September 04 2009 12:16 wok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2009 12:14 PokePill wrote:
attack + left click on a unit doesn't work, it deselects your units


it does. That was the signature. :p Maybe a better signature is in order? Any suggestions?

Just release a version with no signature? That's pretty unusable for me if I can't use attack + left click on a unit --a
When I micro I use attack + left click on units, not right click
wok
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States504 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-04 06:02:26
September 04 2009 05:55 GMT
#127
On September 04 2009 14:20 Nevuk wrote:
I drag select immediately after pressing P when sending probes to mine from nexus' (to select my probes). That's the only time I can think of for that that would be common at all, and it is probably a bad habit.

I would try it but you took down the link haha. I'm saying that I'm almost positive that I would use it, but that there should be an option to allow someone not to use it if it was built-in to the launcher. (Like how you can turn off autoreplay in chaoslauncher although very few people would ever want to do that).


That counts as a suggestion! (I forgot that p had more use than just patrol) Will fix in next version. As soon as I get a few more suggestions, I'll make my next release.
I'll race you to defeatism... you win.
wok
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States504 Posts
September 04 2009 05:56 GMT
#128
On September 04 2009 14:34 Nevuk wrote:
Just tested, I don't think there's anyway anyone would be fast enough to override the drag select thing. The intermittent . is really really annoying.


That would be the signature.
I'll race you to defeatism... you win.
wok
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States504 Posts
September 04 2009 05:56 GMT
#129
On September 04 2009 14:50 HnR)Insane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2009 12:16 wok wrote:
On September 04 2009 12:14 PokePill wrote:
attack + left click on a unit doesn't work, it deselects your units


it does. That was the signature. :p Maybe a better signature is in order? Any suggestions?

Just release a version with no signature? That's pretty unusable for me if I can't use attack + left click on a unit --a
When I micro I use attack + left click on units, not right click


You can use attack left click. Download via link on the OP.
I'll race you to defeatism... you win.
IHurtMyBackHo
Profile Joined August 2009
United States32 Posts
September 04 2009 06:01 GMT
#130
To be honest I don't see why this would be considered any more of a hack than LAN Latency.
The only reason the game isn't like this in the first place is because it was ahead of it's time.
If they were to incorporate this into iCCup launcher it would be very useful.
It's not a huge issue, but it does suck sometimes when you accidentally leave a group or two behind because your action speed is dependent on hardware.
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-04 06:28:17
September 04 2009 06:02 GMT
#131
Nah, I'll wait for the unsigged version or a source release so I can remove the signature myself I play with BGHers, I have no desire to try to explain shit like that and be called a hacker.

e: I don't consider it a hack or cheating, but I also don't want to go around explaining shit like that, either.
e2: nevermind, I mumble mumble
wok
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States504 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-04 06:17:10
September 04 2009 06:16 GMT
#132
On September 04 2009 15:02 HnR)Insane wrote:
Nah, I'll wait for the unsigged version or a source release so I can remove the signature myself I play with BGHers, I have no desire to try to explain shit like that and be called a hacker.

e: I don't consider it a hack or cheating, but I also don't want to go around explaining shit like that, either.
e2: nevermind, I didn't just say that


Man.... just pm me for source code... don't say stuff like this on the public thread!
I'll race you to defeatism... you win.
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
September 04 2009 06:28 GMT
#133
Nothing to see here folks
wok
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States504 Posts
September 04 2009 06:29 GMT
#134
On September 04 2009 15:28 HnR)Insane wrote:
Nothing to see here folks

Thank you
I'll race you to defeatism... you win.
WhuazGoodJaggah
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Lesotho777 Posts
September 04 2009 10:06 GMT
#135
wow, ppl like zulu_nation8 are the reason i'm against democratic systems. he was throwing rocks at something he didn't even understand, typical democratic behaviour, dont know shit but cry out loud.
small dicks have great firepower
MuR)Ernu
Profile Joined September 2008
Finland768 Posts
September 04 2009 10:52 GMT
#136
On September 03 2009 11:17 selboN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2009 11:15 lazz wrote:
are you sure about this? i've never had a problem 1a2a3aing, and im a protoss player...

maybe im just used to it after 10 years of playing and it's become hardwired into my brain to delay the clicks..

Maybe you 1a2a3a4a slowly. I have a g15 and I run into this problem frequently.

i have a g4m3r keyboard so i have fast apm
lazz
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia3119 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-04 11:39:57
September 04 2009 11:26 GMT
#137
On September 04 2009 12:56 armed_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2009 12:48 lazz wrote:
i honestly don't give a shit if my opponent is playing with one less key on the keyboard. i do care if he's running a script in the background which lets him more efficiently/easily execute commands in the game.

You act as if there's some magic boundary between the computer and its peripherals that makes input modification on one side absolutely okay but a cardinal sin on the other. If a macro that gives you a click mouseup action is not okay, why is a good-quality mouse that's simply mechanically built to rebound quickly okay? It gives exactly the same advantage(actually moreso since it provides greater control.)

Not to mention that realistically this is completely undetectable if done right, so it's simply not feasible to enforce a ban on it in any online setting.


you got it exactly right. running scripts on the software side of things is hacking. having good physical hardware is not. of course there's 0 tolerance, of course it's a cardinal sin. as soon as we start running scripts to fix "a serious flaw in the way BW was programmed" what's next? fixing a serious flaw in how many units we can select? fixing a serious problem in only being able to run the game in a shitty low resolution? this is the best place to draw the line.

not to mention it's just terrible for the game if suddenly this rebound fix becomes so widespread that everyone is using it, forcing everyone else to get it etc. prisoner's dilemma. just because we could both run the script to improve our game doesn't mean we should. i like my starcraft the way it is right now thank you very much.

edit: "Not to mention that realistically this is completely undetectable if done right, so it's simply not feasible to enforce a ban on it in any online setting." hahahah omg you have to be kidding me. you're justifying using something simply because it's undetectable and unenforceable? awesome logic bro
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7328 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-04 13:07:23
September 04 2009 13:05 GMT
#138
On September 04 2009 20:26 lazz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2009 12:56 armed_ wrote:
On September 04 2009 12:48 lazz wrote:
i honestly don't give a shit if my opponent is playing with one less key on the keyboard. i do care if he's running a script in the background which lets him more efficiently/easily execute commands in the game.

You act as if there's some magic boundary between the computer and its peripherals that makes input modification on one side absolutely okay but a cardinal sin on the other. If a macro that gives you a click mouseup action is not okay, why is a good-quality mouse that's simply mechanically built to rebound quickly okay? It gives exactly the same advantage(actually moreso since it provides greater control.)

Not to mention that realistically this is completely undetectable if done right, so it's simply not feasible to enforce a ban on it in any online setting.


you got it exactly right. running scripts on the software side of things is hacking. having good physical hardware is not. of course there's 0 tolerance, of course it's a cardinal sin. as soon as we start running scripts to fix "a serious flaw in the way BW was programmed" what's next? fixing a serious flaw in how many units we can select? fixing a serious problem in only being able to run the game in a shitty low resolution? this is the best place to draw the line.

not to mention it's just terrible for the game if suddenly this rebound fix becomes so widespread that everyone is using it, forcing everyone else to get it etc. prisoner's dilemma. just because we could both run the script to improve our game doesn't mean we should. i like my starcraft the way it is right now thank you very much.

edit: "Not to mention that realistically this is completely undetectable if done right, so it's simply not feasible to enforce a ban on it in any online setting." hahahah omg you have to be kidding me. you're justifying using something simply because it's undetectable and unenforceable? awesome logic bro



You are a moron.

So you can buy your way out of a problem if you have the time and money and thats ok. But a simple fix that ANYONE CAN USE IF THEY CHOOSE TO is CHEATING AND HACKING AND BAD.

People like you who somehow think that the shitty programing in bw make the game what it is are fucking dumb.

How about we allow people on iccup to leave games before 2 minutes and not get a loss if you scout their cheese? AFTERALL BLIZZARD CODED 2 MINUTES INTO THE WIN/LOSS SCREEN.

You really must not understand what this does. Its making the fucking mouse work the way its supposed to. You have to run out and get the fix? No you dont......play on the fucked up coding if you want nobody is stopping you. Everyone plays on lan lat now. Did you bitch when you had to go out and download the iccup launcher or chaos?



How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
Too_MuchZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Finland2818 Posts
September 04 2009 13:14 GMT
#139
On September 04 2009 22:05 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2009 20:26 lazz wrote:
On September 04 2009 12:56 armed_ wrote:
On September 04 2009 12:48 lazz wrote:
i honestly don't give a shit if my opponent is playing with one less key on the keyboard. i do care if he's running a script in the background which lets him more efficiently/easily execute commands in the game.

You act as if there's some magic boundary between the computer and its peripherals that makes input modification on one side absolutely okay but a cardinal sin on the other. If a macro that gives you a click mouseup action is not okay, why is a good-quality mouse that's simply mechanically built to rebound quickly okay? It gives exactly the same advantage(actually moreso since it provides greater control.)

Not to mention that realistically this is completely undetectable if done right, so it's simply not feasible to enforce a ban on it in any online setting.


you got it exactly right. running scripts on the software side of things is hacking. having good physical hardware is not. of course there's 0 tolerance, of course it's a cardinal sin. as soon as we start running scripts to fix "a serious flaw in the way BW was programmed" what's next? fixing a serious flaw in how many units we can select? fixing a serious problem in only being able to run the game in a shitty low resolution? this is the best place to draw the line.

not to mention it's just terrible for the game if suddenly this rebound fix becomes so widespread that everyone is using it, forcing everyone else to get it etc. prisoner's dilemma. just because we could both run the script to improve our game doesn't mean we should. i like my starcraft the way it is right now thank you very much.

edit: "Not to mention that realistically this is completely undetectable if done right, so it's simply not feasible to enforce a ban on it in any online setting." hahahah omg you have to be kidding me. you're justifying using something simply because it's undetectable and unenforceable? awesome logic bro



You are a moron.

So you can buy your way out of a problem if you have the time and money and thats ok. But a simple fix that ANYONE CAN USE IF THEY CHOOSE TO is CHEATING AND HACKING AND BAD.

People like you who somehow think that the shitty programing in bw make the game what it is are fucking dumb.

How about we allow people on iccup to leave games before 2 minutes and not get a loss if you scout their cheese? AFTERALL BLIZZARD CODED 2 MINUTES INTO THE WIN/LOSS SCREEN.

You really must not understand what this does. Its making the fucking mouse work the way its supposed to. You have to run out and get the fix? No you dont......play on the fucked up coding if you want nobody is stopping you. Everyone plays on lan lat now. Did you bitch when you had to go out and download the iccup launcher or chaos?





Calm down.

Anyways I am waiting to Iccup to add it to their launcher, if they don't add I just continue playing way its right now. I am not too much hassle adding too much extra stuff when I play broodwar, just iccup laucher is enough for me right now.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
September 04 2009 13:22 GMT
#140
If everyone could use it it would be good, this way its just a hack for me because as the OP said, it gives you a competetive edge.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
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