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So today we had the crowd in Dallas booing various things. Mostly terran medivacs. I won't get into the balance issues which may, or may not exist.
But I can't believe how butt hurt the reddit and TL communities got over this - It's like people don't even understand what a sport is. If you go to football, soccer, pro wrestling, UFC, anything.. People cheer, and people boo. There are heroes, and there are heels, and the crowd decided at this event that the terran domination made terran players the heels.
A truly passionate crowd expresses a full range of emotion! You can cheer, you can boo, you can clap, you can start chants. This occurs in every sport everywhere in the world and the sportscasters would NEVER dare to be so presumptuous as to tell the crowd how to feel or behave. This is what makes sports great - the raw, real human expression that is drawn out by the events in the games. You don't mess with that. The crowd picked a side - and that side was the home team. You don't demand the crowd to cheer for both sides because they're so great, you don't pretend everyone is best friends.
Day9 honestly sounded like a kindergarten teacher tonight, ready to hand out gold star stickers to everybody just for playing along! And that just isn't sport, it isn't esport, it isn't even MLG.
Just my two cents - If you want esport to be taken seriously, we can't go around holding people's hands and trying not to hurt their feelings. People get hurt in sports, that's part of the glory.
 
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TLADT24920 Posts
I disagree completely. The fact that Day9 went as far as to tell the crowd to not boo indicates that it was getting out of hand. Frankly, it was disgusting that Flash of all players got boo'd. Competition is important to the scene and prevents stagnation since every player will practice his heart out to try and surpass the rest. On top of that, it's one thing if all Terran players abused medivac speed but in the specific booing incident, Flash didn't use them anywhere close to Innovation. That and Heyoka said that it wasn't from SCII but won't go into much details since I dunno more than that.
PS I don't really care for 'esports'. I care for the players and to see the game move forward with more strategies, gain more fans and such.
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Pro starcraft in Korea has a long history and I can't remember ever seeing a crowd boo. It would be considered very disrespectful. So to invite Korean pros over and boo while they are playing is pretty uncomfortable to watch. If you're going to compare current SC2 to any sport, it's closest relative would be BW, and crowds did not boo players as far as I know.
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I was there, I was in the crowd, cheering my head off all night long for everyone and everything. There was booing, and it was most definitely from the SC2 crowd. HOWEVER, it had nothing to do with Flash, and everything to do with Medivacs and Widow mines. There might have been a total of 8 people booing, honestly, and they booed like 3 times (?) maybe. Everyone freaking out about people booing "one of the best RTSers in history" and how disgusting it was to boo a player and show that much disrespect wasn't paying attention to the massive cheers for both players going on the entire game and the even more monumental cheers after the game for Flash and Ret.
No one booed Flash. End of story. After a huge gap in games to watch the crowd had a lot of pent up energy and a lot of pent up frustration watching Terran after Terran abuse the shit out of widow/bio and medivac harass and trolled by booing when Flash's medivacs got away and cheering when Ret sniped them down.
Being in the crowd, I can tell you that 95% of the people there turned around and were essentially saying "wtf guys?" when those select few chose to boo because no, it isn't cool or ok, EVER imo. You should respect the players and remain positive, and basically everyone did, and the booers fell back into line and kept cheering their heads off with the rest of us, louder than the average probably. Regardless of the fact that the booing was actually quite friendly and trolly in nature, it was unnecessary and they should have just cheered harder when Ret managed to do what seemed impossible and hold off the drops and widow mines instead of appearing to be haters and biased.
TL;DR Either you accept that the booing was at Terrans imba-ness (alleged imba-ness I should say) and so forgive the few that did boo but maintain that they should not have done it, or you accept that booing just isn't a big deal and don't give a shit what it was directed at or who did. Otherwise you're just stirring up drama and controversy where there is none.
#Wet4Ret
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Is booing at a perceived imbalanced reasonable? I think the foreign community as a whole needs to lighten up about imbalances. They will always exist and it is fine to discuss them, but foreigners generally go way out of control in their rage about it. Why not instead celebrate the players who do well even in the face of imbalance? Anger does not need to be the prevailing emotion.
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you have to be pretty daft to think booing in that scenario would be a good idea.
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I've went to many live sport games with large rowdy crowds. I've done my own share of booing whether because refs were biased or made unfair calls, players being unsportsmanship like, or other things that would poison the merit and integrity of the game.
But this event was different. This event had nothing like the reasons mentioned. People were booing because of something that was by design in the game used by one of the best players in the world. People were booing because a race was doing better than the rest. People were booing because someone or some group was doing well. You don't do that. You boo when someone or some group isn't playing well or how it's supposed to be.
Day9 was like a Kindergarten teacher because the audience was acting like Kindergartens. Whatever you believe, you can't deny that it definitely left a bad vibe on the audience and the event. Saving grace was the late night audience.
On March 17 2013 16:32 darkscream wrote:Just my two cents - If you want esport to be taken seriously, we can't go around holding people's hands and trying not to hurt their feelings. People get hurt in sports, that's part of the glory.
Likewise, if you want to take esports seriously, then people shouldn't get emotional about what's designed into the game and being used by players extremely well. People get hurt in sports true, but people in that audience got hurt because someone or some group was playing well. People got hurt by the game itself. I guess that's another reason why esports can be inferior to rest of the sports: People can hate the game itself.
That's my 2 cents. I look forward tomorrow as the audience get exposed to more Terrans and their use of Medivacs. Will the few in the audience become stupid and further poison the atmosphere? We'll see.
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On March 17 2013 18:21 BirdKiller wrote:
I've went to many live sport games with large rowdy crowds. I've done my own share of booing whether because refs were biased or made unfair calls, players being unsportsmanship like, or other things that would poison the merit and integrity of the game.
But this event was different. This event had nothing like the reasons mentioned. People were booing because of something that was by design in the game used by one of the best players in the world. People were booing because a race was doing better than the rest. People were booing because someone or some group was doing well. You don't do that. You boo when someone or some group isn't playing well or how it's supposed to be.
Day9 was like a Kindergarten teacher because the audience was acting like Kindergartens. Whatever you believe, you can't deny that it definitely left a bad vibe on the audience and the event. Saving grace was the late night audience.
Likewise, if you want to take esports seriously, then people shouldn't get emotional about what's designed into the game and being used by players extremely well. People get hurt in sports true, but people in that audience got hurt because someone or some group was playing well. People got hurt by the game itself. I guess that's another reason why esports can be inferior to rest of the sports: People can hate the game itself.
That's my 2 cents. I look forward tomorrow as the audience get exposed to more Terrans and their use of Medivacs. Will the few in the audience become stupid and further poison the atmosphere? We'll see.
You serious?
Don't know what sports you've been watching, but if you're barracking for one guy, you boo the other guy most of the time. If someone does something within the rules of the game but its cheap or overpowered, damn right they'll get booed.
If they crowd decides they're sick of something, they will disapprove of it happening again. Happens in every sport.
English premier league crowds boo their rival teams, happens across multiple other sports as well. One that gets very heated is State of Origin (you'll probably only know about this if you're from Australia/NZ)
One team simply running onto the pitch is reason to boo the hell out of them.
Its a sport, yes, but it doesn't have the reputation of Golf or anything, where silence is expected. I watched the last game of the night and it was awesome.
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People fucking booed Flash because he was ripping on people with medivacs? lolwat.
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Have you considered that maybe regular sports fans are drunken louts and thus shouldn't be the lofty exemplars of virtue to look up to and emulate?
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On March 17 2013 18:41 pevergreen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 18:21 BirdKiller wrote:
I've went to many live sport games with large rowdy crowds. I've done my own share of booing whether because refs were biased or made unfair calls, players being unsportsmanship like, or other things that would poison the merit and integrity of the game.
But this event was different. This event had nothing like the reasons mentioned. People were booing because of something that was by design in the game used by one of the best players in the world. People were booing because a race was doing better than the rest. People were booing because someone or some group was doing well. You don't do that. You boo when someone or some group isn't playing well or how it's supposed to be.
Day9 was like a Kindergarten teacher because the audience was acting like Kindergartens. Whatever you believe, you can't deny that it definitely left a bad vibe on the audience and the event. Saving grace was the late night audience.
Likewise, if you want to take esports seriously, then people shouldn't get emotional about what's designed into the game and being used by players extremely well. People get hurt in sports true, but people in that audience got hurt because someone or some group was playing well. People got hurt by the game itself. I guess that's another reason why esports can be inferior to rest of the sports: People can hate the game itself.
That's my 2 cents. I look forward tomorrow as the audience get exposed to more Terrans and their use of Medivacs. Will the few in the audience become stupid and further poison the atmosphere? We'll see. You serious? Don't know what sports you've been watching, but if you're barracking for one guy, you boo the other guy most of the time. If someone does something within the rules of the game but its cheap or overpowered, damn right they'll get booed. If they crowd decides they're sick of something, they will disapprove of it happening again. Happens in every sport. English premier league crowds boo their rival teams, happens across multiple other sports as well. One that gets very heated is State of Origin (you'll probably only know about this if you're from Australia/NZ) One team simply running onto the pitch is reason to boo the hell out of them. Its a sport, yes, but it doesn't have the reputation of Golf or anything, where silence is expected. I watched the last game of the night and it was awesome.
That's like booing on someone in a competitive sport because he isn't handing over the ball to his opponent instead of beating him in the game to make the game more even when he is clearly the better player. It's NOT like booing because you are playing against a team from another city or country, but even if it was, this is also incredibly stupid and shouldn't be something to copy.
The people booing are stupid, because they don't get what competitive Starcraft is about and how good and dedicated these korean terrans are. There is no justification and no reasonable explanation for booing, it's that simple. It's just a stupid act of showing how stupid you are to everyone else. It's monkey behavior.
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Crowds of people are really dumb. We get all caught up in the moment and that stupid mentality takes over. Normally, I'm all for not limiting expression, but this seems more like subversion to me. The only time I think booing would be acceptable is when a tournament gets messed up due to blizzard not including LAN. Perhaps the difference is about intention as well, in starcraft 2 non mirror matchups, the rules are asymmetric unlike most conventional sports. When you boo someone for playing with a set of rules you consider cheap, it detracts from their accomplishments.
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On March 17 2013 17:41 Kommatiazo wrote:
#Wet4Ret
I laughed out loudly. Brilliant!
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From a stream viewer's point of view the booing was loud as fuck, and was funny once, and then it got real old and really insulting. Good thing the booths are sound proof.
Why don't people chant "nerf medivacs" or say something intelligible instead of howling like monkeys.
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On March 17 2013 21:14 mizU wrote:
From a stream viewer's point of view the booing was loud as fuck, and was funny once, and then it got real old and really insulting. Good thing the booths are sound proof.
Why don't people chant "nerf medivacs" or say something intelligible instead of howling like monkeys.
I wondered why the sound guys didn't turn down the crowd even. I actually found it really hard at some points to even understand the casters because the crowd noise was just so in your face.
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Starcraft is neither Football, where booing is a part of every single match all the time, nor is it Tennis, where you will never hear even a single soul boo, unless someone shows bad sportsmanship.
But the constant 90-minute chanting, booing, cheering, cursing and screaming of a football match with a full stadium of 80.000 people going back and forth each time the ball is in posession of the other team is so damn mesmerizing. Starcraft fans aren't elites, starcraft fans are everywhere and if they want to boo at a situation, a person or a move, then they absolutely should, unless they don't succumb to vandalism, violence and destruction, which also ruins football. But honest fans showing their appreciation and disapproval, by cheering or booing at whatever it is, is just fine and a normal thing you see in sports overall more often than not.
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I can only feel sorry for you OP. Booing is inacceptable. Even in soccer the audience usually doesn't boo unless its bad sportsmanship or one player really being hated for what he does/did. Flash didn't do anything but play his game. Booing him is completely inacceptable and retarded. You can pick your home team and cheer for it, but you better be respectful towards the opponent.
I hope MLG steps it up and eventually steps in when it happens again even so far as to ban the crowd there.
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On March 17 2013 18:41 pevergreen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 18:21 BirdKiller wrote:
I've went to many live sport games with large rowdy crowds. I've done my own share of booing whether because refs were biased or made unfair calls, players being unsportsmanship like, or other things that would poison the merit and integrity of the game.
But this event was different. This event had nothing like the reasons mentioned. People were booing because of something that was by design in the game used by one of the best players in the world. People were booing because a race was doing better than the rest. People were booing because someone or some group was doing well. You don't do that. You boo when someone or some group isn't playing well or how it's supposed to be.
Day9 was like a Kindergarten teacher because the audience was acting like Kindergartens. Whatever you believe, you can't deny that it definitely left a bad vibe on the audience and the event. Saving grace was the late night audience.
Likewise, if you want to take esports seriously, then people shouldn't get emotional about what's designed into the game and being used by players extremely well. People get hurt in sports true, but people in that audience got hurt because someone or some group was playing well. People got hurt by the game itself. I guess that's another reason why esports can be inferior to rest of the sports: People can hate the game itself.
That's my 2 cents. I look forward tomorrow as the audience get exposed to more Terrans and their use of Medivacs. Will the few in the audience become stupid and further poison the atmosphere? We'll see. You serious? Don't know what sports you've been watching, but if you're barracking for one guy, you boo the other guy most of the time. If someone does something within the rules of the game but its cheap or overpowered, damn right they'll get booed. If they crowd decides they're sick of something, they will disapprove of it happening again. Happens in every sport. English premier league crowds boo their rival teams, happens across multiple other sports as well. One that gets very heated is State of Origin (you'll probably only know about this if you're from Australia/NZ) One team simply running onto the pitch is reason to boo the hell out of them. Its a sport, yes, but it doesn't have the reputation of Golf or anything, where silence is expected. I watched the last game of the night and it was awesome.
Flash did nothing cheap that deserved booing. In every game (or nearly every game) he opened CC first after scouting Ret's hatch first and outmacroed / outplayed him fair and straight. If the crowd wanted to boo the terran / medivac I can understand it, but those games and that player were not the place / moment to do it.
It felt like a basketball audience in a foreign country booing Michael Jordan because they actually have no idea who the guy is, while Jordan is dunking and shooting 3 points during the whole game.
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It's just disrespectful.
Remind me again why we are using American sport spectators as a litmus test of what is appropriate? Isn't our average IQ as a community like 20-30 points higher than them? Can't we exhibit a bit more class?
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United States22883 Posts
It depends on the context and what the players are used to. In something like SPL finals, I'd say booing is fine. In something much more intimate like this, it isn't.
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EPT
