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On March 17 2013 23:12 Jibba wrote: It depends on the context and what the players are used to. In something like SPL finals, I'd say booing is fine. In something much more intimate like this, it isn't.
How is booing fine because its a bigger stage? Thats beyond me
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Booing is never acceptable I'm sorry. It happens, but it's not acceptable. It's completely disrespectful. I'm not a sport expert but most of the booing happens in team sports such as football and never (or very rarely) happens in individual sports such as tennis. Starcraft for the most part is an individual "sport" so I don't see the difference
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I simply liken SC2 to tennis or golf, you will very rarely hear boos in those sports because they are individual sports and not team sports. If you booed at a player at the Wimbledon final without a very good reason (they sometimes boo when it rains etc) then you would be told to be quiet and if you did it again you would be ejected.
I'm fine with booing for a joke, or because play had to stop because of a dc etc. but booing players or strategies is stupid.
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For individual sports like Tennis, it's usually not a good thing. For team sports like basketball or football, it's a cool thing to do. Individual sports is just too intimate, one player against 10k people, that's intimidating to one player. One team against 50k people, it's not a big deal.
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On March 17 2013 23:16 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 23:12 Jibba wrote: It depends on the context and what the players are used to. In something like SPL finals, I'd say booing is fine. In something much more intimate like this, it isn't. How is booing fine because its a bigger stage? Thats beyond me
I think he was trying to point out the difference between team and individual sports.
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You just have to show respect to anyone - let alone Flash - may there be balance issues or not. It is also representative of the SC2 crowd. I just hope Flash didn't hear that.
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Was watching the game on the stream, It was extremely obnoxious and disgusting tbh, and one could barely hear the casters over the crowd booing. If you want to support ur player then cheer but dont be negative and boo the other guy.
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On March 17 2013 23:59 emanresU wrote: You just have to show respect to anyone - let alone Flash - may there be balance issues or not. It is also representative of the SC2 crowd. I just hope Flash didn't hear that.
Did NO ONE see the end of the fucking match? Flash exited the booth to tumultuous cheers and chants of "FLASH FLASH FLASH". The boos stopped pretty quickly, were not malicious in intention or directed to Flash specifically, AND the few people who booed rejoined the cheering right away. I highly doubt that Flash heard any of it, and if he did it was probably forgotten after the standing ovation he received post-winning.
Trust me, the stream's perception of the situation is grossly out of proportion to the reality of what happened.
NO ONE BOOED AT FLASH.
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I actually was gonna write a blog about this topic this morning. During the flash vs ret series, fans were booing, I suppose flash, and day9 told them to shut up. I think booing is ok because it just shows passion of fans which is pretty cool/needed. It happens in real sports all the time. I mean besides maybe the fans were just booing because they are getting sick of seeing foreinger's get knocked out by koreans, or maybe they were sick of terran medivac boost. The point is we don't always have to be super nice to each other, sure at the end of the series clap and cheer, but if your favorite player is getting owned its ok to boo. It's called being a fan. And if you want to see esports grow, showing fan passion helps. I think day9 was being a bit naive. DO we have to be quiet nerds watching a game showing no emotion? Do you really want that kind of boring crowd? Or do you want a excited one who shouts and cheers for favorite player, and hates it when a player they want to win gets knocked out.
Real life example: Lebron James is the greatest nba player in the league right now, he returned to the cleveland got booed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpEgjZDKX8U, and still does. The point is lebron plays his game like flash does and lebron still gets booed.
I guess the point is players should have some back bone, casters aswell. If you really want esports to grow fan passion helps. I mean really who knows maybe it will help foreign players play better, because it shows fans actually care? EG is my favorite team, and when HuK and stephano, and suppy, and thorzain got knocked out I would have booed their performance. And if they won and advanced I would be cheering. Because as a fan I care how they perform I want to see EG win everything. It's not being mean its called being a fan. And maybe if we give a damn, maybe foreign players will win against koreans. We don't have to model our leagues after korean leagues, we aren't korean, we are american, and this is how our culture works.
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On March 18 2013 00:21 HeeroFX wrote:I actually was gonna write a blog about this topic this morning. During the flash vs ret series, fans were booing, I suppose flash, and day9 told them to shut up. I think booing is ok because it just shows passion of fans which is pretty cool/needed. It happens in real sports all the time. I mean besides maybe the fans were just booing because they are getting sick of seeing foreinger's get knocked out by koreans, or maybe they were sick of terran medivac boost. The point is we don't always have to be super nice to each other, sure at the end of the series clap and cheer, but if your favorite player is getting owned its ok to boo. It's called being a fan. And if you want to see esports grow, showing fan passion helps. I think day9 was being a bit naive. DO we have to be quiet nerds watching a game showing no emotion? Do you really want that kind of boring crowd? Or do you want a excited one who shouts and cheers for favorite player, and hates it when a player they want to win gets knocked out. Real life example: Lebron James is the greatest nba player in the league right, he returned to the cleveland got booed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpEgjZDKX8U, and still does. The point is lebron plays his game like flash does and lebron still gets booed. I guess the point is players should have some back bone, casters aswell. If you really want esports to grow fan passion helps. I mean really who knows maybe it will help foreign players play better, because actually care? EG is my favorite team, and when HuK and stephano, and suppy, and thorzain got knocked out I would have booed their performance. And if they won and advanced I would be cheering. Because as a fan I care how they perform I want to see EG win everything. It's not being mean its called being a fan. And maybe if we give a damn, maybe foreign players will win against koreans. We don't have to model our leagues after korean leagues, we aren't korean, we are american, and this is how our culture works.
Stupidity at its best. Booing doesn't show emotion. It is disrespectful behaviour and aggression towards a person that doesn't deserve it. You can be quiet and not cheer for Flash if you don't want him to win, but booing because he is playing well is stupid, childish and nothing that relates to emotion. You can cheer as loud as you want for your player but you better don't be disrespectful towards the opponent for no reason whatsoever.
It doesn't help the growth of eSports at all. Day9 is right
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On March 18 2013 00:25 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 00:21 HeeroFX wrote:I actually was gonna write a blog about this topic this morning. During the flash vs ret series, fans were booing, I suppose flash, and day9 told them to shut up. I think booing is ok because it just shows passion of fans which is pretty cool/needed. It happens in real sports all the time. I mean besides maybe the fans were just booing because they are getting sick of seeing foreinger's get knocked out by koreans, or maybe they were sick of terran medivac boost. The point is we don't always have to be super nice to each other, sure at the end of the series clap and cheer, but if your favorite player is getting owned its ok to boo. It's called being a fan. And if you want to see esports grow, showing fan passion helps. I think day9 was being a bit naive. DO we have to be quiet nerds watching a game showing no emotion? Do you really want that kind of boring crowd? Or do you want a excited one who shouts and cheers for favorite player, and hates it when a player they want to win gets knocked out. Real life example: Lebron James is the greatest nba player in the league right, he returned to the cleveland got booed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpEgjZDKX8U, and still does. The point is lebron plays his game like flash does and lebron still gets booed. I guess the point is players should have some back bone, casters aswell. If you really want esports to grow fan passion helps. I mean really who knows maybe it will help foreign players play better, because actually care? EG is my favorite team, and when HuK and stephano, and suppy, and thorzain got knocked out I would have booed their performance. And if they won and advanced I would be cheering. Because as a fan I care how they perform I want to see EG win everything. It's not being mean its called being a fan. And maybe if we give a damn, maybe foreign players will win against koreans. We don't have to model our leagues after korean leagues, we aren't korean, we are american, and this is how our culture works. Stupidity at its best. Booing doesn't show emotion. It is disrespectful behaviour and aggression towards a person that doesn't deserve it. You can be quiet and not cheer for Flash if you don't want him to win, but booing because he is playing well is stupid, childish and nothing that relates to emotion. You can cheer as loud as you want for your player but you better don't be disrespectful towards the opponent for no reason whatsoever. It doesn't help the growth of eSports at all. Day9 is right
I don't think you have ever been to a live sporting event, how is booing disrepectful? Google defines booing as a verb, ” to show disapproval or contempt." By this definition, you are wrong. The players can't hear them they are in sound proof boxes, at the end people were cheering flash, and showing him respect. But during the series fans didn't like what they saw and booed, nothing bad about that, no one was going to atttack the stage after the series. I am not saying booing=growth, I am saying fan passion=growth. Why is ok for fans in Philadelphia to boo their own teams performance, or the other team for scoring a touchdown? Or even in your case I am sure European football fans also boo there rival team. It just shows they don't like how things are going, their disapproval of performance. It just shows you care, and caring is the most important thing if you want to see esports grow. Because that means people will watch streams, buy stuff, watching tournaments. Don't be so naive. Fan passion can translate into $, which means growth.
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I have been to live sporting events as well as eSports events where the game got abused hard. First IEM Morrow vs IdrA. No one did boo there. Its just stupid disrespectful behaviour. It doesn't even matter if Flash can hear it or not, he will certainly get a grasp of it or his Korean Allies will tell him. Its humilating to one person and booing bad sportsmanship or a complete team is way less critical.
Also booing the opponent doesn't show you care. Cheering your player does show you care. How often do I see posts like "god I'm so glad he LOST" ... does that seem like caring to you? It is blatant disrespect. Caring would be something along those lines:
So glad he made it! Was a tough call! ... But I don't see how aggressiveness even if its just verbal does show any kind of caring or good emotion. Actually, thats not the emotion we need and want in eSports. Taken your point, you could say hooligans care, good fans, great!
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In this case, I agree that booing isn't acceptable. If you think about it, it's basically balance whining under the cover of boos. They weren't booing the player, as defenders have pointed out, but rather the mechanics of the game - the speed boost for the Medivac and Widow Mines. To continue with the sports analogy, this would be like booing every stolen base at an MLB game or every field goal at an NFL one. It's part of the rules, part of the inherent sport itself, right now and should not be booed just because you don't like it. It is hard to distinguish the booing as being against the fabric of the game as opposed to the players or their strats, maybe not to us but certainly on a base level. As such, the distinction is lost and booing Flash, or Innovation or anyone else, for simply using the ACTUAL mechanics of the game is beyond silly and disrespectful. If anything, those fans ought to write letters to Blizzard or something rather than complain about balance in such a dispiriting manner.
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I am willing to accept your point Xivsa, but lets say you are the biggest Ret fan in the world, and he was about to get eliminated, wouldn't you feel upset?
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On March 18 2013 01:00 HeeroFX wrote: I am willing to accept your point Xivsa, but lets say you are the biggest Ret fan in the world, and he was about to get eliminated, wouldn't you feel upset?
And that makes you boo the other player? Good sportsmanship right there! If you were a progamer you would probably not shake hands but punch your opponent in the face.
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Damn the esports community is going down the real sports path. we boo stuff now? Sick. Next thing you know we'll hear of fans getting in fights tailgating outside before MLG's. or guys wearing TL jerseys getting into fights with guys wearing EG jerseys.
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While watching the stream, I was very surprised to hear the boos when Flash was doing what I thought was some incredible multitasking. It detracted from the spectacle of how well Flash was playing. I think this is why Day9 spoke up, because it was clear that Flash was playing really well and it felt wrong to let that get obscured by some discussion of balance.
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On March 18 2013 01:04 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 01:00 HeeroFX wrote: I am willing to accept your point Xivsa, but lets say you are the biggest Ret fan in the world, and he was about to get eliminated, wouldn't you feel upset? And that makes you boo the other player? Good sportsmanship right there! If you were a progamer you would probably not shake hands but punch your opponent in the face.
Nope if I was player, I'd be paid a salary, and my only job is to win games, which means ya I have to show respect. This is a totally different topic. Sportsmanship is for the players, not the fans.
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It's probably an isolated incident in my opinion, because about 95% of all the tournaments so far have been full of cheers and support. That could be some trolling to spice things up I guess. But heck I'd cheer a whole lot during tournaments if I was there :D
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On March 18 2013 01:16 LuckyFool wrote: Damn the esports community is going down the real sports path. we boo stuff now? Sick. Next thing you know we'll hear of fans getting in fights tailgating outside before MLG's. or guys wearing TL jerseys getting into fights with guys wearing EG jerseys. I realize this is sarcasm, but come on. The Sc2 crowd is one of the absolute least likely groups of people to fight anyone, voracious booing or not.
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