On March 18 2013 01:16 LuckyFool wrote: Damn the esports community is going down the real sports path. we boo stuff now? Sick. Next thing you know we'll hear of fans getting in fights tailgating outside before MLG's. or guys wearing TL jerseys getting into fights with guys wearing EG jerseys.
If esports got so big that stuff like that happened, we should be thankful. Sure it's "negative" and you wouldn't want to see it all the time. But right now the personalities in the business think they are bigger than the crowd and treat the crowd like children and something like that would remind them they work for us instead of: "Alright guys, cheer! No booing! Okay, now let's dance for the camera!"
This MLG has been a fantastic experience for me except for certain casters trying to act like they "are" the scene because a bunch of lemmings will agree with whatever they say.
You know who I respect a lot in this situation? DJWheat:
djWHEAT @djWHEAT Flash may have won the series, but @LiquidRet won the hearts of the fans. This place just erupted.
No whining, no telling people what to do, just accepting the sport for what it is, no fluff.
On March 18 2013 01:16 LuckyFool wrote: Damn the esports community is going down the real sports path. we boo stuff now? Sick. Next thing you know we'll hear of fans getting in fights tailgating outside before MLG's. or guys wearing TL jerseys getting into fights with guys wearing EG jerseys.
If esports got so big that stuff like that happened, we should be thankful. Sure it's "negative" and you wouldn't want to see it all the time. But right now the personalities in the business think they are bigger than the crowd and treat the crowd like children and something like that would remind them they work for us instead of: "Alright guys, cheer! No booing! Okay, now let's dance for the camera!".
but this booing is the kind of behaviour you would expect from someone who is immature. clearly they need some guidance as to what is and what is not acceptable behaviour.
i think all of these guys / girls who booed should be grounded by blizzard. don't let them log on to battle.net for a while and maybe take some ladder points away from them as punishment. also you could consider taking away units from them, so they can't build them when laddering.
Depends on the context. In certain sports, booing is normal and to be expected, so booing has less of an impact there and is used to communicate a broader range of things. In other sports, booing is only used in the most extreme of circumstances and is used to communicate intense dislike of some major error. In this situation, a large amount of booing would be pretty inappropriate. We don't really boo that often (if ever) so boos mean a lot more in SC2. Furthermore, Flash is coming here without knowing much about our culture or language so there is a distinct possibility that he would overestimate the severity of our disapproval. Of course, from what people watching the tournament live are saying in the comments, it seems that there really wasn't a problem at all. People watching the stream, due to lack of perspective, simply overestimated the quantity of booing and assumed that something big (and bad) was happening.
On March 18 2013 01:00 HeeroFX wrote: I am willing to accept your point Xivsa, but lets say you are the biggest Ret fan in the world, and he was about to get eliminated, wouldn't you feel upset?
Upset is a tricky word. Probably, I'd be most upset at Ret for losing, but how does booing Flash help that? I wouldn't boo Flash just because I was the biggest Ret fan in the world. I'd be sad more than upset, put my hands on my head or something. And assuming it was a good game and/or series, I'd clap with everyone else. If it was a series with imba Medivacs and Widow Mines, I'd just show sportsmanship anyway.
IMO, there's never a reason to boo, unless a player is doing something specifically shitty, such as the classic Naniwa 1-handed probe rush. Yeah, people do it in other sports... then again, a lot of people watching other sports are idiots, it doesn't have to be accepted just because they do it. Booing brings nothing but negativity to an event.
So if I dislike whats going on. I should be quiet and never talk about it?
Silly, silly approach to take. If you're all trying to make esports a 'real sport', why take away the only negative display a fan can do?
Some players even cater to the crowd, should they not be told when they are doing something silly?
HuK's mothership rush from however long ago that was. If that was met by a chorus of boo's, could have been a different period of time after that.
As for those people who say booing doesn't show emotion? What? Have you been to a live sports game? If I'm watching at home, I won't boo, as it has no impact, I'll just swear at the TV. If I'm at a live event, damn right I'll boo.
Famous moment in Sport, completely legal, nothing against it at the time, realistically it was the smartest thing to do.
Bottom line, people will always disagree and displays of disapproval happen at every sport.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with showing your displeasure at something. Booing at a starcraft game is no different than returning a meal at a restaurant because your food was cold.
Also the amount of elitism in this thread is pretty sickening. Everyone that is taking pot shots at sports fans needs to get their heads out of the clouds. There is a huge variety of people that like sports and just because you play RTS games doesn't make you any better or smarter than them.
On March 18 2013 18:49 nunez wrote: i don't think drawing comparisons to cricket, football and hockey will be fruitful. the more natural comparison would be to chess. we don't boo chess.
edit: some people just had unlucky / bad parents, and don't know that it's unacceptable behavior in this context. we need to educate them.
Exactly. As I said earlier in this thread, we shouldn't compare TEAM sports with starcraft which is an individual sport. Booing in tennis (or chess as you said) simply doesn't happen (besides some very specific cases)
On March 18 2013 20:20 ZeroChrome wrote: There's absolutely nothing wrong with showing your displeasure at something. Booing at a starcraft game is no different than returning a meal at a restaurant because your food was cold.
Also the amount of elitism in this thread is pretty sickening. Everyone that is taking pot shots at sports fans needs to get their heads out of the clouds. There is a huge variety of people that like sports and just because you play RTS games doesn't make you any better or smarter than them.
I think most people who you call "elitists" simply don't agree that booing should be acceptable. I don't think they "hate" sports
I'm waiting for fans in the audience to start waving large posters with funny images to distract players in their booths like when NBA players shoot free throws!
To "boo" is a part of American culture and free speech. Even someone as important and high up as Flash is not immune to the whims and feelings of the home crowd. Your opposition to the "boo" is just a manifestation of an overly politically correct community and treating Koreans like royalty. Just let the plebs do their thing and don't suppress their free speech like day9 would intend.
On March 17 2013 16:32 darkscream wrote: So today we had the crowd in Dallas booing various things. Mostly terran medivacs. I won't get into the balance issues which may, or may not exist.
But I can't believe how butt hurt the reddit and TL communities got over this - It's like people don't even understand what a sport is. If you go to football, soccer, pro wrestling, UFC, anything.. People cheer, and people boo. There are heroes, and there are heels, and the crowd decided at this event that the terran domination made terran players the heels.
A truly passionate crowd expresses a full range of emotion! You can cheer, you can boo, you can clap, you can start chants. This occurs in every sport everywhere in the world and the sportscasters would NEVER dare to be so presumptuous as to tell the crowd how to feel or behave. This is what makes sports great - the raw, real human expression that is drawn out by the events in the games. You don't mess with that. The crowd picked a side - and that side was the home team. You don't demand the crowd to cheer for both sides because they're so great, you don't pretend everyone is best friends.
Day9 honestly sounded like a kindergarten teacher tonight, ready to hand out gold star stickers to everybody just for playing along! And that just isn't sport, it isn't esport, it isn't even MLG.
Just my two cents - If you want esport to be taken seriously, we can't go around holding people's hands and trying not to hurt their feelings. People get hurt in sports, that's part of the glory.
Yes, plenty of sports boo, but there are a lot of instances where cities lose respect for booing or cheering. For example, Philadelphia has the absolute worst fans in the world. Just terrible people, at least as sports fans go. Kansas City fans deserve no respect either, since they cheered when their quarterback got a serious injury this past season. Furthermore, it's classless and shitty to boo your own team for a poor performance. That just makes you an entitled whiner, not a true fan.
Booing Medivacs? Eh. Were people booing BL/Infestor? If not, then it's kind of bullshit, since BL/Infestor was way, way, way worse than the current Medivacs.
Furthermore, the places where you hear booing are almost always team sports. It's incredibly disrespectful to boo one individual that is in front of a countless many.
On March 17 2013 17:41 Kommatiazo wrote: I was there, I was in the crowd, cheering my head off all night long for everyone and everything. There was booing, and it was most definitely from the SC2 crowd. HOWEVER, it had nothing to do with Flash, and everything to do with Medivacs and Widow mines. There might have been a total of 8 people booing, honestly, and they booed like 3 times (?) maybe. Everyone freaking out about people booing "one of the best RTSers in history" and how disgusting it was to boo a player and show that much disrespect wasn't paying attention to the massive cheers for both players going on the entire game and the even more monumental cheers after the game for Flash and Ret.
No one booed Flash. End of story. After a huge gap in games to watch the crowd had a lot of pent up energy and a lot of pent up frustration watching Terran after Terran abuse the shit out of widow/bio and medivac harass and trolled by booing when Flash's medivacs got away and cheering when Ret sniped them down.
Being in the crowd, I can tell you that 95% of the people there turned around and were essentially saying "wtf guys?" when those select few chose to boo because no, it isn't cool or ok, EVER imo. You should respect the players and remain positive, and basically everyone did, and the booers fell back into line and kept cheering their heads off with the rest of us, louder than the average probably. Regardless of the fact that the booing was actually quite friendly and trolly in nature, it was unnecessary and they should have just cheered harder when Ret managed to do what seemed impossible and hold off the drops and widow mines instead of appearing to be haters and biased.
TL;DR Either you accept that the booing was at Terrans imba-ness (alleged imba-ness I should say) and so forgive the few that did boo but maintain that they should not have done it, or you accept that booing just isn't a big deal and don't give a shit what it was directed at or who did. Otherwise you're just stirring up drama and controversy where there is none.
#Wet4Ret
I think it's hillarious how some Zergs are already complaining about Terran being balanced in hots when LIFE WON THE FUCKING MLG, and at the end period of 2012 every single tournament was Zerg-only ro8 (no terrans ro32 in BWC) and they didn't seem to see anything wrong then.
Just because something is acceptable in other sports..doesnt mean we should encourage it here. Drunken brawling is prevelant in most professional sporting stadiums... I dont want to encourage we bring this into Esports.
Cheering for someone/thing shows that you are passionate and have a psychological/emotional connection with whatever it is you are cheering for.
Boo'ing just means your a selfish prick who cant stand anything that you dont like. Imagine if at your high school childs graduation, every single parent boo'ed whenever their kid wasnt called. That would be ridiculously bad right? Yet noone will ever complain about cheering for your family member.
Cheering is a positive expression, and offends noone. Booing is intentionally going out of your way to try to ruin the experience of both the competitor, and that competitors fans.
I have a friend who is now a professional Athlete for the Minnesota Vikings, at both his high school, and college football games he would often get negative cheers from opposing fans. Its disgusting and demonstrates your lack of class and self control.
Getting shitfaced and puking on strangers happens in professional sports, maybe we should argue to bring more of that to esports because it happens in real sports.
Seriously being rude, and trying to demean other players/fans just because your a selfish douche, makes you look exactly like that a giant flaming douche, who decides his tastes are the only ones that deserve positive enforcements.
On March 21 2013 08:58 MaestroSC wrote: Just because something is acceptable in other sports..doesnt mean we should encourage it here. Drunken brawling is prevelant in most professional sporting stadiums... I dont want to encourage we bring this into Esports.
Cheering for someone/thing shows that you are passionate and have a psychological/emotional connection with whatever it is you are cheering for.
Boo'ing just means your a selfish prick who cant stand anything that you dont like. Imagine if at your high school childs graduation, every single parent boo'ed whenever their kid wasnt called. That would be ridiculously bad right? Yet noone will ever complain about cheering for your family member.
Cheering is a positive expression, and offends noone. Booing is intentionally going out of your way to try to ruin the experience of both the competitor, and that competitors fans.
I have a friend who is now a professional Athlete for the Minnesota Vikings, at both his high school, and college football games he would often get negative cheers from opposing fans. Its disgusting and demonstrates your lack of class and self control.
Getting shitfaced and puking on strangers happens in professional sports, maybe we should argue to bring more of that to esports because it happens in real sports.
Seriously being rude, and trying to demean other players/fans just because your a selfish douche, makes you look exactly like that a giant flaming douche, who decides his tastes are the only ones that deserve positive enforcements.
EPT
