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Part 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=359130
+ Show Spoiler [Introduction] +Lately, I've heard lots of discussion about a StarCraft 2 World Ranking based on tournament results. Essentially, the concept is that you assign points for tournament rankings. Unfortunately, no matter how it is done, the ranking will always be subjective. One person may say that the GSL is worth as much as every other tournament combined, whereas another person may say that the GSL is worth about as much as a MLG.
How do I get around this "subjective" problem? Here's my answer: I'll let you choose the values!
That's right, I'm starting a project to create a World Ranking. The cool thing is that you get to choose how many points each victory is worth and more.
Make sure you enable Macros when you download this version:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43612415/World Ranking.xlsm
+ Show Spoiler [How to Use] +The first sheet is known as "Values" and it is the only spreadsheet you should edit. The left column shows the ranking of the player and the right column shows the points that the player receives from that ranking. For example, 1st 5,000 means that the winner of the tournament receives 5,000 points.
Only edit the highlighted areas!
The "Sort" button will automatically sort the lists in order of points.
The sheet known as "Rankings" has the ultimate ranking which you are looking for.
+ Show Spoiler [Regression] +One thing that is very popular in point rankings such as this is the concept of regression. Basically, your points degrade over time, meaning that a GSL today is worth more than a GSL one year ago. I completely agree with this idea, so I've included this.
The sheet "Values" has a "Regression Factor" which you can edit. Right now, the spreadsheet only supports simple regression - exponential decay. Here's how the regression model works:
New Point Value = Original Point Value * (Regression Factor)^(# of Days since the Tournament)
The value I prefer is "0.99769217652702". If you use this value, the number of points will be halved after 300 days (so 10,000 points becomes 5,000 points), the number of points will be 25% after 600 days (so 10,000 points becomes 2,500 points), and so on.
You may choose your own value! If you do not wish to use regression (you think a GSL from one year ago is worth exactly the same as a GSL today), then simply use the value "1".
However, this is not completed yet! So far, I've only added GSL Code S and IPL. In fact, I need your help!
+ Show Spoiler [My Progress] +Part 1: I started this project on Google Spreadsheets and added the three GSL Open Seasons. NesTea topped the rankings with his GSL Open Season win.
Part 2: I added all of the GSL Code S seasons including the World Championship, Super Tournament, and Blizzard Cup. I also moved the project to Microsoft Excel, which is much much faster than Google Spreadsheets. With the addition of more GSL seasons, the GSL king (also known as Mvp) topped the rankings.
Part 3: I added IPL. I changed the spreadsheet into a macro-enabled spreadsheet and protected each sheet except "Values". The addition of IPL allowed Squirtle to break the top ten!
+ Show Spoiler [How You Can Help!] +I need lists of tournament rankings. First, I need the name of the tournament, and the date it ended. Then, I need a list of players starting from 1st place until last place. Here's an example:
GSL Open Season 1
10/2/2010
FruitDealer
RainBOw
Ensnare
LiveForever
HongUn
InCa
Maka
TricKsteR
anypro
Check
Clide
Hyperdub
LegalMind
Nettie
San
TOP
IdrA
JookTo
justfake
Keeping
Maru
Polt
TaeJa
Tankboy
TheWinD
TLO
ZanDarke
Zenio
Aory
Artosis
Astraea
BrEEzE
Cella
Cezanne
Chipmunk
Dos
FoCuS
Genius
Gerrard
GuineaPig
Hansin
JiTaeHoon
jjonga
JSL
Junwi
LosirA
MC
miso
Myth
NesTea
New
RenieHouR
SengKun
Sopia
Spunky
SSoja
TorcH
Wind
Xian
Yong
My next goal is foreign tournaments. Do not worry about Code A yet!
Finally, here is my own ranking:
+ Show Spoiler +1. 25,789 Mvp
2. 15,889 NesTea
3. 15,838 MMA
4. 15,620 MC
5. 12,785 DongRaeGu
6. 9,833 Seed
7. 7,776 MarineKing
8. 7,096 Polt
9. 6,525 Jjakji
10. 6,465 Squirtle
High IPL 4 placements allowed NesTea and MMA to overtake MC. Meanwhile, Squirtle's 2nd place IPL run contributed enough points to his 2nd place GSL and he has now broken the top 10.
Now, let's add some substance to this blog.
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/2/28/ALive_IPL4.jpg/399px-ALive_IPL4.jpg)
Here he is, the conqueror of IPL 4. (Picture credit: Liquipedia)
aLive was really impressive during IPL 4, taking out TAiLS, PartinG (who was shown to have amazing PvT), GanZi (who recently regained his form), Polt, MarineKing (MarineKing was on fire too, he had just won GSTL for his team), NesTea, and Squirtle (later, we found out that Squirtle was on fire too). This win alone should distinguish him from other Korean terrans and he can finally come into his own.
Except he didn't... instead, he has mostly been neglected. Everyone knows that he is skilled and has the potential to go deep in any tournament, but he's not getting nearly as much hype. In fact, I find IPL 4 to be an extremely forgettable tournament in general, but there is one story I remember.
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/9/96/Squirtle_IPL4.jpg/640px-Squirtle_IPL4.jpg)
Squirtle, the real hero of the tournament. (Picture credit: also Liquipedia...)
Here we have Squirtle who took a monstrous trip through the Open Bracket and demolished players just as good as the ones aLive beat. Although he eventually lost to aLive, mainly due to a double Bo5 format, his run was talked about.
Then he took his domination and moved it to Code S, stomping his way to the finals of GSL. After this, he created his own legacy. Nowadays, we think of Squirtle and we know that he is a really good Protoss, perhaps even the best Protoss in the world.
aLive... he's a good Korean terran.
What separates these two? Arguably, aLive's GSL Ro4 + IPL win + Iron Squid semi-finals (high placements in some of the most stacked tournaments ever) aren't too far behind Squirtle's GSL 2nd and IPL 2nd. I suppose it was the sheer length of time that Squirtle dominated, while aLive's accomplishments were spread apart. It's really hard to get noticed in the progaming scene, so you really have to do something spectacular.
On the other hand, if Squirtle had won the GSL and IPL, it would have been even better for him. Right now, we talk about TaeJa's hot form and we call him "best player in the world", "best Terran in the world" (whether or not that is true). If Squirtle had won those two tournaments back to back, I would consider it a greater achievement than TaeJa's recent accomplishments. We would be calling Squirtle "best player in the world", "best Protoss in the world".
Then two Korean terrans came and ruined his day.
Part 4: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=359642
 
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On August 10 2012 02:58 Entirety wrote:Right now, we talk about TaeJa's hot form and we call him "best player in the world", "best Terran in the world" (whether or not that is true). If Squirtle had won those two tournaments back to back, I would consider it a greater achievement than TaeJa's recent accomplishments. We would be calling Squirtle "best player in the world", "best Protoss in the world".
I would certainly hope not.
There is nothing in Squirtle's actual gameplay that stands out in the same way that Taeja's mechanics and multitasking stand out. When you watch Taeja's play, you don't really need to know anything about him, what his win ratios are, how many championships he won etc - you can see he's that good and stands out that much by watching him play. The only other players to ever shine that way in SC2 have been DRG and MMA on their peak, and both were widely considered to be the "best in the world" (at least in their respective races) before actually winning anything of note. Their (single) GSL wins came much, much later.
When you watch Squirtle play, you really see nothing that MC, Creator, Parting or mvp offracing Protoss can't do and/or haven't done before. Sure Squirtle would have gotten more recognition if he won the tournaments he finished second in, but that kind of a player needs to win at least as much as mvp, MC or Nestea have won to be unanimously considered one of the greatest players ever. Whereas players like DRG, MMA or Taeja didn't actually need to win much (or anything) at all, the way they play(ed) the game, even if only for several months or a year, speaks for itself and leaves spectators in awe.
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Squirtle might not be the flashiest player, but that doesn't mean he's not good. I think Squirtle is skilled, like DRG, MMA, or TaeJa, but it might not be noticeable from his play.
Squirtle is very solid, especially compared to MMA. Squirtle doesn't really have a weak match-up. He's very good versus Terran, unstoppable against Protoss, and he has pretty top-notch PvZ too.
Honestly, I think a lot of this stems from his IPL run when people were calling him cheesy or 2-base all-inner. His "Squirtle timing" is also pretty infamous. However, he's better than just some 2-base timing.
As for MMA and DRG, I don't think you could specifically tell from their play that they were the best in the world. DRG got a lot of hype for being a ladder monster and wrecking face in GSTL. MMA got lots of hype for crushing through MLG Columbus, going deep into the Super Tournament, and being BoxeR's son. Yes, MMA has his amazing drop play and DRG has his famous Mutalisk control. Still, they had reputations based on their achievements, it's not like someone watched one game of theirs and the hype spread across the forums.
An example of "skill before results" would be HerO. When he was first signed onto TeamLiquid, people watched his stream and they knew he had talent. His MLG 6th place came after that.
I'll admit that Squirtle doesn't have a signature micro-move like MMA, DRG, or TaeJa, but he can be considered an equivalent to ForGG I suppose. His timings are deadly, and who are you to say that flashy micro is better than that? The only way to tell what is better is through results, and Squirtle has more than proved that he deserves to be up there at the top.
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On August 10 2012 04:16 Entirety wrote:
As for MMA and DRG, I don't think you could specifically tell from their play that they were the best in the world. DRG got a lot of hype for being a ladder monster and wrecking face in GSTL. MMA got lots of hype for crushing through MLG Columbus, going deep into the Super Tournament, and being BoxeR's son. Yes, MMA has his amazing drop play and DRG has his famous Mutalisk control. Still, they had reputations based on their achievements, it's not like someone watched one game of theirs and the hype spread across the forums.
That is exactly how it happened actually.
For DRG specifically it's exactly about a few people watching his stream and spreading the hype through forums - this was way back when he was in ProS (prior to joining MVP, actually I think it was before MVP even existed). Compared to the very slow and cautious Zerg play of the time, he looked like a Zerg God simply because he was capable of doing a lot of things fast and was winning games based on that ability alone.
For MMA it was acutally Artosis that started spreading the hype, just before or just after his first big GSTL appearance (while his id was still jjob).
Both their reputations grew gradually from there and it was way before Slayers' GSTL title, let alone MLG Columbus or the GSL wins that they were considered to be the best of their respective races. I remember when Huk proxy gated MMA out of Code S there was a massive outcry on the forums about him cockblocking the "best Terran" and keeping him out of the top tier competition.
On August 10 2012 04:16 Entirety wrote:
I'll admit that Squirtle doesn't have a signature micro-move like MMA, DRG, or TaeJa, but he can be considered an equivalent to ForGG I suppose. His timings are deadly, and who are you to say that flashy micro is better than that? The only way to tell what is better is through results, and Squirtle has more than proved that he deserves to be up there at the top.
With the 3 players I mentioned, it's not so much about "flashy micro", it's about being able to do a lot of shit really, really fast, ideally at several places at once, and do all of them well. Taeja and MMA look like they have fantastic micro because they can afford to take the time to individually micro drops or small groups of bio while doing everything else. MC has phenomenal micro, but it rarely gets as much attention because the tempo of his play is rather slow and it's normally always focused on one thing at a time.
As for what is better, based on the hype and attention that the players of this sort get after basically just a few well-played games compared to how much a player must win in order to be regarded as the best by accomplishments alone, it's pretty obvious that the general audience appreciates displays of "physical" skill and values it the most in a player. Which is only natural, given that mechanical skill stems from a very rare combination of player's inherent talent and training, whereas "strategic" aptitude stems from the current state of the game, metagame trends, and player's understanding of both.
It's really not uncommon to have "metagame heroes" in Starcraft 2 who deliver excellent results for a period of time - even though they don't really stand out from their peers in any concrete way and win solely due to their superior understanding of the matchups and decision making based on that understanding, which is often enough to cover up all the fundamental mistakes they make. Squirtle, for example, straight up fumbles like 50% of the Forcefields he casts. In fact, terrible Forcefields are exactly what costed him the GSL title (and rightfully so) in the last game.
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Actually, Squirtle messed up his last game by moving out too soon with his troops and got them surrounded.
Now, I don't know how much Squirtle you have watched, but he is highly capable of great micro feats too. He can repel Mutalisk harass while on 3 base with nearly nothing lost with beautiful Blink micro. You're correct that he doesn't exactly use Warp Prism micro or do lots of multi-pronged aggression, but everyone has his/her own playstyle.
Just look at Mvp. When he was at his peak, he was genuinely good, he didn't win with gimmicks or metagame or cheese. His lategame was great, he can micro like a boss (his Marine splits are top notch too), and he has displayed crazy multitasking (3 drops at a time + nukes + repelling Nydus + main army movement). MMA is more famous than Mvp for micro though, and that's because of Mvp's style. Mvp is very defensive and his solid defensive style, great macro play, great decisions, and starsense were his main traits.
One could say that Mvp isn't as skilled as MMA by looking at their games, but that's not really true. I can watch some of his games and I see a perfectly standard, normal Korean Terran playing. I can watch MMA and be awed at the endless drops and beautiful micro. In this case, MMA might be more impressive, but that's due to Mvp's style. His style does not focus on micro, but there are times when he busts out his micro and it dazzles people anyway.
In this regard, I do not think Squirtle is any less skilled than MMA, DRG, etc. Rather, his style is defensive, mass up Colossus deathball, and roll over the enemy. You don't need as much micro for that because if your composition and macro are solid and the enemy lets you build whatever you want, then your army should be superior. You can't directly compare MMA and Squirtle because Squirtle is not doing drops. If Squirtle dropped like MMA, maybe he'd be just as good as MMA and his multitasking is actually amazing, we just don't get to see it.
Alternatively, he could be bad at multitasking and that's why he prefers to mass up deathballs. Which is fine, it's always good to play to one's strengths. Mvp is good at playing defensively, while MMA loves to be everywhere else. That's why Mvp chooses Mech (not always though) and MMA chooses bio (not always). Does that mean MMA is more skilled than Mvp because MMA displays greater multitasking?
A lot of it has to do with the style. When MMA pulls off 4 simultaneous drops, everyone knows this is a great feat and they are awed. It's a lot harder to notice certain nuances in the play of Squirtle. Maybe he scouts a certain tech path and chooses to get +1 before Blink. That is much, much harder to notice.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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aLive always gets overlooked because he received a negative reputation for being boring.
It's like the EG Curse, when you look for it, it will seem very obvious, but in reality, it is non-existent, and only seems to exist because one actively looks for patterns and examples.
aLive doesn't have a personality like MC or PartinG or Ace. He seems like a shy guy. Unfortunately, people use that as a way to think, "boring Korean Terran" and often root for another player, which sucks for aLive. In fact, I bet if I asked a lot of people the first thing that came to their mind when they thought of him, just as many would think "boring" or "that Terran player", compared to "IPL 4 Champion".
I guess you can say that aLive has an image problem, and it is a shame because he is a very talented player. If I were Fnatic, I would try to address this, and try to make the team ace appear more "personable" to the fickle fans. It is fair that aLive has been saddled with this unfortunate reputation? Hell no, but we can't complain about equity, we only need to address the issue.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 10 2012 11:01 Bagration wrote:
aLive always gets overlooked because he received a negative reputation for being boring.
It's like the EG Curse, when you look for it, it will seem very obvious, but in reality, it is non-existent, and only seems to exist because one actively looks for patterns and examples.
aLive doesn't have a personality like MC or PartinG or Ace. He seems like a shy guy. Unfortunately, people use that as a way to think, "boring Korean Terran" and often root for another player, which sucks for aLive. In fact, I bet if I asked a lot of people the first thing that came to their mind when they thought of him, just as many would think "boring" or "that Terran player", compared to "IPL 4 Champion".
I guess you can say that aLive has an image problem, and it is a shame because he is a very talented player. If I were Fnatic, I would try to address this, and try to make the team ace appear more "personable" to the fickle fans. It is fair that aLive has been saddled with this unfortunate reputation? Hell no, but we can't complain about equity, we only need to address the issue.
it's the zerosc2 curse as well :D
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EPT
