• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:49
CEST 11:49
KST 18:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End4Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!42Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End Rush's Odyssey Controversy BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II Best Games Kespa era
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group A CSLAN 4 is Coming! ASL Season 22 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10026 users

Addendum on Map Balance

Blogs > VGhost
Post a Reply
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3621 Posts
March 22 2012 18:56 GMT
#1
One of the things that has always intrigued me about Brood War is the ease in which we can render results down to statistics. There is no "team effort" to account for* - or at least, not exactly the way there is in (American) football or baseball, the two sports most subjected to statistical analysis so far. Of course the game itself is hugely complicated, but the prediction - accurate or not for any given game - "Flash will beat Bisu" or "Bisu will beat Action" is not hard to make.

At any rate, I have, on and off for the past couple years, tracked results in some amount of detail; after my first two flailing efforts I was immensely surprised and gratified when Kiante contacted me and asked if I would be willing to write something after Round Three had finished. (Much to my chagrin, I did not manage to get the write-up complete before playoffs started, but it is in this week's news post - by far the least professional piece there, alas.)

However, I imagine the number one question my numbers raise is, "Where did the numbers come from?" That is what I want to attempt to answer here. First of all - which I forgot to mention - an unexpected result "swings" the number at least 4 - from +2 to -2, or maybe more. So what the number I gave represents could be broken down as a chance that the underdog (whichever race it is) will win a game: many were around 1 (positive or negative). A PvT score of -1, for example, would mean that on that map 1 out of 4 Terrans (or a little less: maybe 1 out of 5 or 6) would win as a underdog. A ZvP balance of +0.60 would mean a Zerg underdog would win about 1 out of 6+ times.

As for why those numbers? Trying to judge the actual balance of a map is difficult in all but extreme cases (and even in this case, there were fascinating ZvP results in the minor league which the necessities of making playoffs forbade the A-teams from attempting to duplicate). Another well-known example of the difficulty is Nostalgia: by pure numerical results, one of the most balance maps ever made, but the complaints extended for years and resurface with any mention of the map.

But interpreting how much of any existent balance issues is the problem with the map is difficult. In the first case, any map is used in the context of the existing game (which for Brood War is at this point fixed) and metagame (which as in any competitive endeavor is constantly shifting a little bit at a time). Furthermore, the habits of the Brood War leagues have been to cycle maps fairly quickly - probably too quickly - so that for all but those few maps which receive instant acclaim the sample size to judge their actual quality on is incredibly small - and the results, in large part, depend on the players involved. If we take a map like Battle Royal, which I mentioned above, and by some fluke Flash vs Hyuk is the only matchup played for seven games, Flash will probably win at least four, and leave us with a false impression of the map's balance, at least until we remember how godawful Hyuk is at ZvT when he is not in the OSL Round of 16 (and how that ever happened once, let alone multiple times, is one of the great mysteries of the universe - but I digress).

I want to illustrate the difficulties further by considering the map Electric Circuit, which I nominated as the best map so far of the 2011-2012 SK Planet Proleague (Season 1), in its PvT matchup.

The matchups in the regular season were as follows:

Jaehoon vs Flash
BeSt vs Light
Movie vs fantasy
Dear vs Sea
Dear vs Light
Tyson vs Leta
Bisu vs Canata
M18M vs Flash

With no research and no "context", I would favor (in order) Flash, BeSt, fantasy, Sea, Dear, Tyson, Bisu, Flash and expect a final record of 4-4. Taking Sea's slump into account, I would favor Dear in both games: 5-3. As it happened, M18M was able to pull off an upset (by any account), while Flash and fantasy won their "obviously favored" games, for a final record of 6-2.

And yet, my (current) attempt at statistical analysis suggests this map is Terran-favored. The only clear evidence I have for this is that Movie "should have" won his game (in my opinion): did he "throw it away" or did the map prevent him finishing his advantage? Add in the fact that Light, of all Terrans, with remarkably solid if uninspired play, almost beat BeSt. What my current evaluation turns on is an (over-?)reliance on individual game probabilities - and a few quirks of results along the way.

I guessed going in that the method which would most simply yield accurate results would be to base predictions on record over a previous year. The result - for this map - was that to my surprise, the three "obvious favorites" (Flash, fantasy, Flash) were in fact predicted to lose their individual games (to Jaehoon, Movie, and M18M respectively). Jaehoon going in was 12-5 over the past year against Terran; compared to Flash's 19-11, this made him numerically a favorite. There is no way to account for the fact that Jaehoon beats bad and average Terrans, while losses are mainly to the best players (say, Flash), while Flash's losses are due largely to inherent game imbalance, and are scattered sort randomly - or that half of them were from BeSt and Jangbi. A potential solution would be to use ELO in some form instead, but I do not have access to what me might call "game-time ELO" - and ELO would present the problem of underrating newer players (like Dear). For the other two: Movie is simply much better at PvT than we usually remember; M18M suffered from over-prediction due to a small sample size of games in the last year. The result is that going game-by-game, the predicted result of the 8 games was 8-0 for Protoss. When Terran won two - never mind that it was Flash and fantasy winning the games, or that Flash lost to M18M - this generated a "Terran favored" review for the map.

Which brings us back to my example above: a score of -1.00 came from "underdog" Terrans winning 2 out of 8, or 1 out of 4, games on the map. What to do about it? I am not entirely sure: it is partly a problem with my current modeling which I am going to make an effort to correct: individual predictions are clearly carrying too much weight.

However, there was an additional problem which would be corrected over a larger sample size: the fact is that Electric Circuit has so far seen either excellent TvP players (Flash and fantasy) or terrible TvP players (Light, Sea-in-slump, Leta, Canata). There have not been any "average" or "merely good" TvP Terrans on the map - not that there are many left in the current Proleague. Sea if he un-slumps; firebathero and his new-found skill; maybe TurN or Mind?

At any rate, I hope this gives the curious some further idea of the things I am looking at. One thing I want to look at incorporating is average win probability: on Electric Circuit it came out at 59% for Protoss, which would lead us to expect a 5-3 result over 8 games, and 1 off of that is clearly acceptable.

* I am not ignoring the fact that trying to predict team league results has turned out to be largely a fool's errand so far. It is probably possible, but the amount of work it would take even to narrow down which are the critical areas where we need data to evaluate is immense.

****
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3861
Soulkey 1002
PianO 778
Killer 524
Larva 439
Jaedong 358
EffOrt 334
ZerO 252
Mind 138
Sexy 133
[ Show more ]
Pusan 126
BeSt 100
Light 83
Mong 58
Stork 56
sSak 44
Bale 29
sorry 27
Terrorterran 18
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1861
zeus232
kRYSTAL_58
edward41
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King74
Other Games
singsing1995
ceh9611
crisheroes248
ZerO(Twitch)11
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 63
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV878
• lizZardDota2279
League of Legends
• Stunt483
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
11m
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
1h 11m
The Patches Monday
6h 11m
Afreeca Starleague
1d
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
GSL
1d 1h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 14h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 4
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.