C REACHED! - Page 2

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OneOther

United States10774 Posts

August 15 2009 03:08 GMT

#21

On August 15 2009 10:23 konadora wrote:
Protoss calling Zerg cheese gay

rofl

have you pvzed above d level? (aka vs zergs who are capable of making lings or hydras or mutas) yeah that's what i thought.

good job race

Wotans_Fire

United Kingdom294 Posts

August 15 2009 03:28 GMT

#22

CREACHED! actually one time race you owned me on destination you brought 2 probes aand owned my drones then it was 2 gate it was over because i went 9 pool speed and you killed 2 drones that was pretty stressful
i need a wank!

lazz

Australia3119 Posts

August 15 2009 03:32 GMT

#23

On August 15 2009 10:54 Yaqoob wrote:
Are you like begging him to come and brag about his 270 apm and 180eapm?

no, im just curious what the eapm for a C level player is.

Camlito

Australia4040 Posts

August 15 2009 03:38 GMT

#24

Wow i pretty much beat a C protoss straight up if it wasn't for a dt sneak? Atleast my ZvP is better than i thought

Grobyc

Canada18410 Posts

August 15 2009 03:39 GMT

#25

On August 15 2009 12:08 OneOther wrote:

Show nested quote +

have you pvzed above d level? (aka vs zergs who are capable of making lings or hydras or mutas) yeah that's what i thought.

good job race

Even so, it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

Zerg can have cheesy tactics with units, Protoss can have cheesy units along with other stuff. Protoss is generally cheesier.

Either way, C is still an achievement, GJ!

OneOther

United States10774 Posts

August 15 2009 03:45 GMT

#26

On August 15 2009 12:39 Grobyc wrote:

Show nested quote +

i disagree. protoss is not generally cheesier. they have cheesy units along with other stuff? what in the world are you talking about? Zerg is definitely the cheesier race in ZvP, and it's also a matchup where there are most fluke wins. when Zerg opens 9 pool speedlings they have many different cheese options. sure, Protoss can do various cheeses in PvT as well, but none that are efficient as ZvP cheeses.

("cheesy units?" zerglings are the cheesiest units imo)

arb

Noobville17921 Posts

August 15 2009 03:46 GMT

#27

On August 15 2009 12:32 lazz wrote:

Show nested quote +

no, im just curious what the eapm for a C level player is.

yaqoobs post says all of it.

not to brag but i can have near that eapm with only 190 apm >.>

GJ on C race C+ might be waiting for you before the season ends

lazz

Australia3119 Posts

August 15 2009 03:48 GMT

#28

ehh, no race is more cheesier than another, but certain match ups are cheesy, like ZvP against fast expand there are lots of cheesy builds that zerg can do, similarly TvZ bunker rushes and proxy factories, and in PvT the protoss can do lots of cheesy things too like proxy 7 pylon gate or proxy reavers/dts. it's not really worth arguing which race is more cheesy because all races have matchups where they can be cheesy, it's all a matter of opinion really.

edit: what the hell is with all people above C rank coming in here and posting about how they're above C rank, it makes you look insecure, like you have to 1 up the OP or something, weird.

Exteray

United States1094 Posts

August 15 2009 03:59 GMT

#29

Congrats.. today is a big day for me too.. i reached C-.. highest ever for me haha

Grobyc

Canada18410 Posts

August 15 2009 04:28 GMT

#30

On August 15 2009 12:45 OneOther wrote:

Show nested quote +

Zerg cannot proxy(realistically). Protoss can. Big cheese advantage there.

Zerg build openers often depend on the map. Anything from 9pool to 12hatch ZvP is considered standard by most players. No forge FE and fast tech is often considered cheesy in PvZ by many players.

I guess it also depends on what you classify as cheese. Err by

Zerg can have cheesy tactics with units, Protoss can have cheesy units along with other stuff.

I meant tactics, like doing things like runbys. I don't see how Zerglings would be the cheesiest unit. You can runby, so? Zealots can runby too. The unit is mean to be fast and weak. I don't consider that cheese. I would say lurker hopping across minerals and probe hopping for cannoning and stuff is though. That's what I was referring to as cheesy tactics.

Zerg builds often alter depending on the map and what Protoss follows up an FE with. Standardized Protoss is usually FE, so builds other than that are somewhat rare. It's not surprising to see a Zerg follow up with different builds because they need to adapt accordingly.

Cannon breaks from hydra play isn't cheesy IMO because it's not usually something you know you are going to do when you go into the game. If you notice the Protoss is skimping on cannons then you go for it. If you see he found out you made more hydras because of it he can add more cannons and it's no big deal to you. You can just not attack and you're not that far behind. You can't do that with 1base tech very well. You can't get a citadel in hopes of going fast DT, then see he scouted it and hope to come out ahead. You have to either attack or end up pretty far behind. It's cheesier than a cannon break for example.

I don't know if any of this makes sense to anyone else. I just got off work and am extremely tired lol.

Just my opinion anyway, don't mean to derailed the thread.

OneOther

United States10774 Posts

August 15 2009 05:05 GMT

#31

On August 15 2009 13:28 Grobyc wrote:

Show nested quote +

You must be tired because you don't make sense. I was really tempted to stop reading when you said Protoss has a cheese advantage over Zerg because they can proxy. You can't be serious. Zerg has overlords that see what the Protoss is doing, whereas Protoss doesn't know what the Zerg is up to if they go 9 pool Speedlings. I don't know what level you play at, but your arguments sound ludicrous at best. Sorry if I come off as rude - there's just no other word to describe them. 9 pool speedling itself isn't a cheese; it becomes cheese when you follow it up with an all-in. Zergs can win many games by running in speedlings if Protoss sets up a bad sim city or tries to be greedy, even at the slightest measures. How often do you see Protoss beating Zergs by doing "Zealot run-bys?" I mean, have you ever played a game of PvZ? Cheese wouldn't exist if you don't consider an all-in Zergling attack/run-by a cheese. If Protoss defends it, he wins; if he doesn't, he loses. Hydra cannon break isn't cheesy because you don't plan it? Most of times, Zerg decides that he is going to do it early on and plays accordingly by denying scouts and such. It's not something you can all of sudden decide you want to do it because you feel like it.

This is quite frustrating, so I am going to stop arguing with you regarding this topic.

Saracen

United States5139 Posts

August 15 2009 05:45 GMT

#32

Zerg is "cheesier" than Protoss ZvP/PvZ. Proxies are basically obsolete since pool first openings are pretty much standard nowadays. There are a huge number of "cheesy" Zerg followups to a speed build, too. The thing is, Protoss may have a lot of followups to FE, but virtually none of them are "cheesy" or all-in, partly because they always should be scouted by your overlord, partly because Protoss has no active threats with both delayed tech and delayed unit production in exchange for a stronger economy. The only "cheesy" Protoss builds I can think of are proxy gates and cannon rushes, which both lose to pool first openings. However, off of a 9pool speed, which you consider standard, Zerg can go 2hatch mutas, 2hatch hydra break, all-in lings, 2hatch lurker drop, etc. All of these rely on droning up to a specific number and then producing only units, are timed to hit as Protoss is still weak (gates aren't up and tech isn't finished), and are only successful (hopefully) when scouting is denied. I'm not complaining about 9pool speed followups; it's allows for really effective builds that capitalize on the weaknesses of Protoss FE. As long as the Zerg is good at denying scouting, though, it makes ZvP more of a gamble (will he have cannons in his main for mutas? will he have cannons up front for hydras? will he have a good probe block for a runby?) because you have to commit to a certain tech route (or playing standard) really early in your build, and it's not like you can really change it afterwards if you see them defending properly.

What are the cheesy Protoss units? Dark Templar? Corsairs? Reavers? And how is a hydra break not cheese? Are you hydra breaking off of 5hatch? And, if so, how??? Also, to put it into perspective (sort of), this season, I'm getting cheesed about 75% of the time vs Z and 20% of the time vs P.

Sorry if I sound kind of incoherent. I'm extremely tired right now.
Also, I thought it was generally accepted that the race with greater cheesing possibilities in a MU mirrored the race with the advantage in each MU (Z>P, P>T, T>Z).

KrAzYfoOL

Australia3037 Posts

August 15 2009 06:07 GMT

#33

the majority of your games are against foreigners, so it doesn't count

congrats anyway.

Racenilatr

United States2756 Posts

August 15 2009 15:06 GMT

#34

Zerg is full of cheesy shit end og discussion. I beat this one korean 2 times! And I only have 165 eapm. Mid game slows me down

Foucault

Sweden2826 Posts

August 15 2009 15:08 GMT

#35

oh your protoss, surprise

stroggos

New Zealand1543 Posts

August 15 2009 15:45 GMT

#36

im a zerg player, yes i'd say there are more cheese builds for zerg in zvp. Who cares though? Stop discussing this shit like a dawn of war player would. We all know that every single build in starcraft is beatable.