something is rotten in the state of iccup D rank

Amaroq

United States59 Posts

June 30 2009 22:30 GMT

so, my last 5 games on iccup have been against cheese, and I would say on average 3-4 out of 5 games I play on average are against cheese. If I wanted to become B at fighting 2 port wraith and proxy 2 gates Id be fine with that, but I want to become B at fighting standard play that (I hope) will become more common as I get higher in iccup ranks.

I understand that cheese is a part of the game and that I should learn to fight it, but I would much, much rather get my standard play up to par first and then work on that kind of thing with specific counters memorized.

all that being said, Id really like to find some D/D+/C-ish practice partners that I could play against that wouldn't cheese me 100% of the time to get some good practice! so PM me or add me on iccup (Amaroq) for some games

Chill

Calgary26003 Posts

June 30 2009 22:33 GMT

2 port wraith is standard.

Amaroq

United States59 Posts

June 30 2009 22:34 GMT

if youre leta

Crunchums

United States11144 Posts

June 30 2009 22:34 GMT

it's midnight at the castle elsinore went HARK

minus_human

4784 Posts

June 30 2009 22:35 GMT

Welcome to the real world.

You actually don't have a choice (besides finding regular training partners) than to learn how to deal with cheese, and work on late game management/multitasking etc later on. Learn micro and either some aggressive BOs or very defensive ones, so you can start stopping unorthodox players dead in their tracks.

Then you can work on standard/ideal macro play, after you get really used with responding to messy situations.

Do remember that in your situation and at your level, proper and extensive scouting will make or break any game 95% of the time.

AzureEye

United States1360 Posts

June 30 2009 22:36 GMT

yeah I understand you

But now that Wraiths / early factory T builds are so common in TvZ, Terrans do it because their cheese just lets them transition to their build and don't get punished as severely as much for it

For example, a Terran might proxy vulture, lift the fact into the back of your main, and IF his cheese is blocked, he can just transition to mech. Lets say that Z went for early lurker drop and it gets blocked. You've given up on muta timing which lets T safely expand, and he has map control at that point

Try to get a friend who plays slightly better than you and practice all day with him

It really helps

stroggos

New Zealand1543 Posts

June 30 2009 22:39 GMT

Sounds like your making up excuses for your loses tbh. someone cheesing you doesn't mean you automatically lose. In fact, if people are cheesing you all the time it should be easy to adapt and easier to play against cheese as you have more experience. I envy the amount of cheese you get to play against.

I advise you look at your matchlist and cry when you see all the people you played who were B rank last season.

beetlelisk

Poland2276 Posts

June 30 2009 22:40 GMT

OP IRC @ ICCUP
Many ppl idle there but window mode / stealthbot is the solution.
+ Show Spoiler +

lol stealth- not spybot

edit: have you seen this?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81706

edit2: How to set up stealthbot on ICCUP:
http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/forum/general_forum/9/55672.html

infinity21

Canada6683 Posts

June 30 2009 22:41 GMT

Another solution is to join a clan where you can ask people to do certain builds to practice against.

Amaroq

United States59 Posts

June 30 2009 22:41 GMT

#10

On July 01 2009 07:39 stroggos wrote:
Sounds like your making up excuses for your loses tbh. someone cheesing you doesn't mean you automatically lose. In fact, if people are cheesing you all the time it should be easy to adapt and easier to play against cheese as you have more experience. I envy the amount of cheese you get to play against.

Im not complaining cause I lose every time... I beat cheeses a fair amount. one of the games where I got cheesed today turned into an epic game that I won, a lot of fun. Im complaining because I cant learn proper mechanics when every game I get rushed one way or another

Amaroq

United States59 Posts

June 30 2009 22:43 GMT

#11

On July 01 2009 07:40 beetlelisk wrote:
OP IRC @ ICCUP
Many ppl idle there but window mode / spybot is the solution.
I can't find thread how to setup bot on on iccup on iccup's site because something is wrog with search thing now ><.

edit: have you seen this?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81706

On July 01 2009 07:41 infinity21 wrote:
Another solution is to join a clan where you can ask people to do certain builds to practice against.

thanks and thanks.

armed_

Canada443 Posts

June 30 2009 22:44 GMT

#12

On July 01 2009 07:41 Amaroq wrote:
Im complaining because I cant learn proper mechanics when every game I get rushed one way or another

Yes you can.

And even if you couldn't, there's no reason to insist on learning standard play before defending cheese if your training environment is much better for the latter than the former.

ghermination

United States2851 Posts

June 30 2009 22:48 GMT

#13

Last week i decided to give up on Iccup. I'm just gonna wait until sc2 now because for some reason this season just doesn't seem the same as the last few. Maybe you should do that too.

Lucktar

United States526 Posts

June 30 2009 22:49 GMT

#14

ICCUP D = cheese, pretty much. Just gotta get through it.

Foreplay

United States1154 Posts

June 30 2009 22:52 GMT

#15

Iccup D cheese is not that hard to stop. Just scout well and play it safe.

stroggos

New Zealand1543 Posts

June 30 2009 22:53 GMT

#16

On July 01 2009 07:41 Amaroq wrote:

Show nested quote +

define "proper mechanics"

if you get cheesed all the time then cheese becomes standard. And standard becomes cheese.

You said you got cheesed alot but you win a fair amount against cheese. A 33% win rate is all that is required to get to C- rank

You need good mechanics to fight both cheese and standard, so i'm not sure why you'd want to only practice against standard play.

people still cheese a lot in the higher ranks. maybe even more so than the lower ranks

pinenamu

United States770 Posts

June 30 2009 23:07 GMT

#17

along with the cheese, D iccup is also filled with C's still

i'm getting raped here and there by guys with win percents > 80. i feel so helpless playing against these guys. i even played a previous season A- for goodness sakes D;

n.DieJokes

United States3443 Posts

June 30 2009 23:16 GMT

#18

5/5 cause I like the title

Numba

United States76 Posts

June 30 2009 23:19 GMT

#19

omg, I've noticed the exact same thing. I'd actually like to practice some "standard" zvt (which I feel is my worst match-up) once in a while, but lately all of them have consisted of all-in bunker rushes, proxy raxes, and of course, 2-port wraithes (all of which I've recently been able to adapt to and subsequently beat).

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

June 30 2009 23:22 GMT

#20

you dont become more solid by playing vs solid builds all day, you become more solid when you can fend off every kinds of cheese

FragKrag

United States11567 Posts

June 30 2009 23:27 GMT

#21

as a terran, I get cheesed quite a lot by Protoss, but after I got used to it, I ended cheesing the fagtosses who went 1 gate fe.

Cheese is fine!

Liquid`Drone

Norway28848 Posts

June 30 2009 23:44 GMT

#22

i dont understand at all, ive played shitloads of iccup last couple seasons, hundreds of games, but i seriously hardly ever encounter cheese, like one out of 20 games or something.. not as often as it should be honestly xD

InfeSteD

United States4658 Posts

June 30 2009 23:47 GMT

#23

Hamachi used to be the best bet for me to play good games with people I knew.. nowadays I got no idea... but in iccup if ur a good gamer it should be more than fun to fucking stop cheese and then have the edge on the game and macro like iloveoov and run em over with ur giant army dude

Shauni

4077 Posts

July 01 2009 00:01 GMT

#24

On July 01 2009 08:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
i dont understand at all, ive played shitloads of iccup last couple seasons, hundreds of games, but i seriously hardly ever encounter cheese, like one out of 20 games or something.. not as often as it should be honestly xD

I think OP's definition of cheese is different from your definition. Plus, if you scout well and your early game looks solid, opponent is less likely to make some sort of allin build. So yeah, I think 'bad' players get cheesed a lot more at D ranks.

CaucasianAsian

Korea (South)11598 Posts

July 01 2009 00:15 GMT

#25

i got "cheesed" once so far in the 30 games i've played. And it wasn't even a cheese really. TvP and I scout that he only has 1 pylon in his main with 2 gates + cyber, so obv. he's proxying something.

So I made vults + mine and mined the fuck outta my natural, and usual spots for a shuttle / dt drop. defended it perfectly fine and got a win.

Just scout well, and know what your opponent should have, so you will know if something just doesnt feel right

KurtistheTurtle

United States1966 Posts

July 01 2009 00:18 GMT

#26

When I read this, I asked myself one question. Is all cheese rotten?

CaucasianAsian

Korea (South)11598 Posts

July 01 2009 00:23 GMT

#27

isn't it a mold?

KurtistheTurtle

United States1966 Posts

July 01 2009 00:28 GMT

#28

no, it's cottage cheese!

DBunny

Canada192 Posts

July 01 2009 00:32 GMT

#29

I hear about cheese often, but I've only encountered a handful of cheese when I play icup at D level. I play zerg if that matters, so there is hardly any cheese in one matchup (ZvZ), and D level terrans aren't really comfortable enough in their marine micro to try anything but a bunker at my natural which I don't really consider cheese.

epicdoom

United States489 Posts

July 01 2009 00:49 GMT

#30

Hey i think I played you today haha I was practicing 2port wraithing for a long time today
Oh and 2port wraith is a solid build on some maps (not a cheese, wtf) but can be dominated if scouted, try actually floating the overlord into the base to scout it instead of just stopping at the borders the standard timing is a 20 or 22 I think 2 ports so just have that overlord that's chillin on the border to just check it out because chances are if its a pure mech, which everyone is doing nowadays they wont' have enough rines to take out the overlord before info is gathered.

Cloud

Sexico5880 Posts

July 01 2009 01:02 GMT

#31

Stop thinking that theyre cheese, or youll simply either, dont think its worth it to plan something in response to that style, or get dissapointed with yourself when you keep losing to it, like now.

Find out ways to respond vs it, the thing vs proxies and stuff is that once you know how/when to scout it and how to react, you will rarely lose a game against it again.

boesthius

United States11637 Posts

July 01 2009 01:51 GMT

#32

--- Nuked ---

knyttym

United States5797 Posts

July 01 2009 01:58 GMT

#33

actually when I was trying to test a build out yesterday on D level Iccup, I didn't get a chance to because no one felt like playing standard.

I played 6 games vs Zerg. Only 1 was actual cheese but I just wanted to play once vs a standard two hatch lair and didn't get to.
2 were 1hatch lair ->2hatch
1 was a 5 pool sunken rush
1 was 9 pool sunken rush
1 was 1 hatch lurker
Last one I don't remember but it wasn't standard.

On the D+/C- level though, I rarely encounter any type of cheese. People still do annoying things but rarely do I encounter a 5 pool or proxy 2gate zealot.

lokiM

United States3407 Posts

July 01 2009 01:59 GMT

#34

this is because the people that are actually D level think that what they are seeing is cheese, when in actuality it's just standard play that you have to defend. I get the same thing, every season I climb the ladder I'll maybe play only 5 out of 70 games when they really go all-in

ghostWriter

United States3302 Posts

July 01 2009 02:01 GMT

#35

You have to scout and see what's coming. If you think it's not a "real game" because it's not "standard play", then you're just Idra without the skills. A loss is a loss whether you lost to a 5pool or if you lost to recall after 20 minutes of playing.

R3condite

Korea (South)1541 Posts

July 01 2009 04:16 GMT

#36

On July 01 2009 07:41 infinity21 wrote:
Another solution is to join a clan where you can ask people to do certain builds to practice against.

this is probably the best choice out there. Make sure to choose a non-douche clan

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something is rotten in the state of iccup D rank

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