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Fanatacist's recent guide on trolling has me thinking about the right balance of moderation and tolerance for teamliquid and other forums. I am not a moderator nor want to be, so I'm in no way saying that I know best, but as part of a community I feel we have a say on what we want that level of balance to be.
I think that there was no need for the thread to be locked. The argument for locking it was that the thread was degenerating into posts like "2.5/10" "
8=D/10", but I though those posts were hilarious and fine in the context. Everyone knows it's a troll thread and that the posts were not typed maliciously. A second argument is that it might encourage behavior like that in other threads, but most of us know how to judge context and everyone is expected to do it anyway. In short, I think that free speech should be taken seriously, and that a more active forum is more important than a thoughtful forum.
I'll be frank. I was irked when I tried to post in Fanatacist's thread only to learn about the "locked thread" feature. In my year and a half here I've never seen anything like this. Usually when a mod wants to stop discussion on a thread, it's just closed. And I was enraged when a blog post was closed in between the time I was typing a response and I submitted.
The blog happened to be about a tricky topic, and considering that it was not badly written "I fear the wrath of [the moderators] like a nerd fears the sun!", I thought the topic was justified. The blog writer had received an untactful and sarcastic personal message and was against common sense posting it in a blog. It's true that the intention of a pm is that it's supposed to be private, but if the receiver does tell other people, it's not like one can or should be able to stop them. It's like giving someone a secret threat in a dark alley and punishing him again if he tries to speak out.
One piece of feedback I'll enjoy from teamliquid is whether they believe this is an issue and their thoughts on the matter. I'll prefer that this be in general, but seeing as how it's already controversial it's best here to start. Also, others might not think this is an issue.
edit: ok then, here's the PM in question. Read the thread and note the context.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94901
This is a Warning!
Greetings! You've received this message because we here at Teamliquid have noticed a disturbing lack of personality in your posts. Most members here try to promote discussion by typing thoughtful, meaningful and interesting posts. Others post crude, primitive one-line responses that add nothing but more text to read. Right now, we've got you pegged as an "other". Generally, this means one of two things: 1) You haven't been putting enough effort into your posts, or 2) You're a zombie, caveman or one of those trained apes like in "Congo". Any of those things would be great if this were a buddy cop movie or a movie where you have to babysit a bunch of spoiled rich kids who learn to love you, but it isn't. It's a forum, where all we have to know you by is what you type. So here's to hoping you're part of the first group, and that in the future you put more effort into each post. We'd hate to have to ban you because we thought you were a zombie.
Seriously, smarten up. Next warning = another ban. You've had 2 so it will be much longer this time
Thanks in advance for your cooperation,
The Mod Staff
(Do not reply to this message. No one will receive it.)
 
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it's their site they can do w/e the fuck they want... there's no sort of mandatory internet democracy rule in place anywhere.
just my thought
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I don't see teamliquid as some sort of house for senior citizens. I've always seen it as a prison, pretty much like that of the series Prison Break; there is disorder from time to time and it won't be a big of a deal unless it is something really serious. Otherwise there's always room for the users to be creative, make stuff out of nothing (like making hand made knives), get important shit from exterior sources (like smuggling drugs into prison) there will always be some corrupted mod (which hands important stuff to a selected group of users which he trusts, most likely the vets) and as always, bash on the fish and teach them the rules of the game. This is why old posters are favored, they already for a part on the big family.
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On June 07 2009 14:26 Xeris wrote:
it's their site they can do w/e the fuck they want... there's no sort of mandatory internet democracy rule in place anywhere.
just my thought
I agree that they have the right to do as they please. But if other think similar to me it would be a more enjoyable, less uptight, and better forum if they considered some feedback from members of the community.
Also, this was more like a stream of consciousness, a response to a coincidence that happened to me, so I just want to see what people have to say.
On June 07 2009 14:27 EsX_Raptor wrote:
I don't see teamliquid as some sort of house for senior citizens. I've always seen it as a prison, pretty much like that of the series Prison Break; there is disorder from time to time and it won't be a big of a deal unless it is something really serious. Otherwise there's always room for the users to be creative, make stuff out of nothing (like making hand made knives), get important shit from exterior sources (like smuggling drugs into prison) there will always be some corrupted mod (which hands important stuff to a selected group of users which he trusts, most likely the vets) and as always, bash on the fish and teach them the rules of the game. This is why old posters are favored, they already for a part on the big family.
But it doesn't have to be that way. Would you voluntarily go to a prison?
Also, I note that the mods here have contributed much more to the community than anyone else. There is not much difference from the way I prefer it to be, to now. The difference is if a unthoughtful but unmalicious post is type, no one thinks one way or another about it.
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Well frankly, and I might be sounding a little crude but whatever... I am not in favor of having unequivocal equality just for the sake of the idea. I don't think there's anything necessarily "uptight" about it being the way it is.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I think you'll find the majority of people like the (relatively) tight ship that is run around here. I'm all for decent though so er rip.
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I believe the moderation is a large part of what has made tl what it is today.
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United States24768 Posts
The concept of 'free speech' is not applicable to teamliquid as that only involves government.
Any argument that you make about how mods should loosen up, or whatever, should be made with the goal of making tl more enjoyable... not obeying some pre-written rules about what should or shouldn't be allowed or encouraged. In some cases you did that, and in others you didn't.
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On June 07 2009 14:31 datscilly wrote:
But it doesn't have to be that way. Would you voluntarily go to a prison?
Well, my friend. We're all prisoners of this marvelous game called StarCraft aren't we? 
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On June 07 2009 14:35 Xeris wrote:
Well frankly, and I might be sounding a little crude but whatever... I am not in favor of having unequivocal equality just for the sake of the idea. I don't think there's anything necessarily "uptight" about it being the way it is.
I agree with this. I actually like the way tl is runned, it's gotten the site where it is now. It's true that vets do have their privileges but don't think they're above the rules. Everyone can get warned, banned, nuked etc.
I do appreciate your initiative to give feedback to the site but I've seen quite a lot of people trying to change the way stuff works on tl like this and I don't recall anyone succeeding. If we didn't like the way tl was run/works we wouldn't be browsing it 24/7.
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It seems like most people here favor the level of moderation that goes on in tl while acknowledging that it's harsh (and that's good, they say). However, have you been on the receiving end of it? The pm I read (out of context) seemed inappropriately harsh, and I though there could have been a better way to deal with it rather than to lose a member.
On June 07 2009 14:43 micronesia wrote:
The concept of 'free speech' is not applicable to teamliquid as that only involves government.
Any argument that you make about how mods should loosen up, or whatever, should be made with the goal of making tl more enjoyable... not obeying some pre-written rules about what should or shouldn't be allowed or encouraged. In some cases you did that, and in others you didn't.
I disagree. The internet, one could argue, was made for free speech.
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On June 07 2009 14:49 FirstBorn wrote:
I do appreciate your initiative to give feedback to the site but I've seen quite a lot of people trying to change the way stuff works on tl like this and I don't recall anyone succeeding. If we didn't like the way tl was run/works we wouldn't be browsing it 24/7.
I agree for the most part. At first glance I thought it would be nice if, say enough people wanted to unlock a thread then they can do that. But the messiness and unnecessary debate that goes into that kills that idea.
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On June 07 2009 14:49 datscilly wrote:
I disagree. The internet, one could argue, was made for free speech.
It's funny how one of the things I like the most about teamliquid is that free speech can become a privilege at times. And it's not necesarily linked with the number of posts but with common sense.
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I disagree. The internet, one could argue, was made for free speech.
The internet may have been, but was TL?
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FuDDx
United States5015 Posts
The Commandments are in no particular order. They're all equally important.
1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE
2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE
3. THOU SHALL THINK BEFORE POSTING
4. THOU SHALL RESPECT YOUR ID
5. THOU SHALL NOT SPAM
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
7. ENGLISH IS THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE
8. THOU SHALL CONTRIBUTE TO THE SITE
9. READ THE COMMANDMENTS
10. THOU SHALL HAVE FUN
Rule one says it all this is not our house but we are able to come over and visit show stuff etc.
Start breaking furniture and trying to sleep with their ladies prepare for dissyland errr Disneyland.
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I think the way TL handle's thing is just fine. For the most part the moderators are polite and nice folks who I often agree with.
My warning's have all been polite "You are in violation of this rule, please stop. Thanks" And this was back even when I was a nooby under 10 post dude making bad threads.
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On June 07 2009 15:02 Manbear wrote:The internet may have been, but was TL?
Well, I think if tl aims to have one of the "highest quality moderation on the internet", then the level of free speech should be like in real life. Just because the internet allows people to easily broadcast words to more people, it does not mean that it should be more restrictive than in real life.
But the real issue that I want to discuss that no one offered there opinion on is the posting of PMs.
It's like giving someone a secret threat in a dark alley and punishing him again if he tries to speak out.
I thought that the DeathSpank's blog OP was interesting and everyone should be allowed to see it if they wanted to. What are the moderators afraid of, that everyone would go on an uprising if they saw it? Basically, the attitude one mod took in private was interesting and you're liabile to be called out on that.
My warning's have all been polite "You are in violation of this rule, please stop. Thanks" And this was back even when I was a nooby under 10 post dude making bad threads.
I didn't see this when I first posted this. This is what I was looking for.
In fact, I wish to post the PM to DeathSpank for all to see. Do people think that this is a good idea, bad idea, or neutral?
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Just some thoughts.
What has always separated TL from other forums for me (even long before i got staffed) was a sense of identity. Strict moderation makes people think twice about what they are posting - that is an emotional and time investment. I can go on some random gaming blog and type "lol nice" thousands of times and no one has any idea who i am. I have invested nothing. I have no return. On TL once i hit a few hundred posts, have been through a couple heated discussions, i have invested time and interest not only into my posts but those around me. Maybe i argued with Idra about God. Maybe i made a thread about moderation standards. People see my name and based on my opinions and posts slowly start to get a character profile.
Why would i want to fuck that up? What a waste of time that would have been if i had tried decently and then had it all down the toilet cause i was too stubborn to meet a very reasonable standard. I watch new posters like a hawk because its fascinating to see people slowly evolve from 12 post nobody into a big contributor. I remember Blizzcon last year when people started spamming WATERDRAGONGHOSTCLAW all over the place and i had no idea who this kid was. Today he's about to help launch one of the biggest features we've done this year. If he hadn't become emotionally invested do you think he would have bothered?
The fact that you even made this blog shows that you care. As mods/admins our job is to be shepards - its to say "hey...thats not how we roll" and often thats all it takes to make a "lol check dis thread" into a decent contributor. Im not sure the stats on re-bans are - probably for some people all it takes is one 2 day ban to smarten them up. Other's that can't adapt are lost causes.
I don't like to draw a distinction between staff and veterans. The reason vets are vets is because they have invested time and energy into meeting expectations - staff simply represent the group and provide guidelines for noobies to rise through the ranks. If someone invests a couple hours a day into browsing or posting, they shouldn't have that ruined by someone who can't be bothered to be decent. We have enough people who do care and that do want to be here - those that are complacent and couldn't give a fuck get washed out.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On June 07 2009 15:20 datscilly wrote:
I thought that the DeathSpank's blog OP was interesting and everyone should be allowed to see it if they wanted to. What are the moderators afraid of, that everyone would go on an uprising if they saw it? Basically, the attitude one mod took in private was interesting and you're liabile to be called out on that.
DeathSpank's posting quality is subpar. It is my job to judge that and determine he is decent enough to be given a chance. He has 500+ posts and no other bad history so he gets a warning. Pretty standard - infact we have a list of auto PMs to send to shitty posters (warez links, one liners, drop in quality etc). The one he posted was one of the set (LOL you think i have time to write that up for one kid!. I'm not really sure what you are talking about moderators afraid of and hiding stuff. We aren't really hiding from anything in our own home....
As or his blog i closed it because he is trying to be a martyr or something. I really don't need to justify this lol.
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i have been banned for words said in MY blog.
just a warning before the BOT gets you. it's their house
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
omninmo has about 10 warnings/bans for being sub par.
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Free speech is pretty good on these forums. Most of the staff and veterans don't particularly like me, especially if I share my thoughts in an argument, but I've never actually been banned from this website for any period of time. As long as you're civil they'll let you stick around even if they think you're an idiot. It's when you're purposely degrading the quality of the forums as apposed to just being an oddball that bans are handed out, which is perfectly acceptable.
Sometimes a thread gets closed while you were trying to post in it, but is it really that important that what you had to say must be shared with the world? I can pretty much get on with my life when a mod closes a topic (although I don't like it when they pull punches at the same time).
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I like you even though i singled you out before. You should stop martying though - draws more attention that it's worth.
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This is one of the things I like of 4chan, you can go there and say whatever the fuck you want, there is no post count, nobody knows who you are and SOMETIMES thats nice.
But thats why I like teamliquid too, the quality posts make this site great and the community has so much to offer.
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On June 07 2009 15:28 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2009 15:20 datscilly wrote:
I thought that the DeathSpank's blog OP was interesting and everyone should be allowed to see it if they wanted to. What are the moderators afraid of, that everyone would go on an uprising if they saw it? Basically, the attitude one mod took in private was interesting and you're liabile to be called out on that. DeathSpank's posting quality is subpar. It is my job to judge that and determine he is decent enough to be given a chance. He has 500+ posts and no other bad history so he gets a warning. Pretty standard - infact we have a list of auto PMs to send to shitty posters (warez links, one liners, drop in quality etc). The one he posted was one of the set (LOL you think i have time to write that up for one kid!. I'm not really sure what you are talking about moderators afraid of and hiding stuff. We aren't really hiding from anything in our own home.... As or his blog i closed it because he is trying to be a martyr or something. I really don't need to justify this lol.
If he was trying to be a martyr then why would you close the blog thread? Sure, people who didn't see it never will, but people who did will notice the squelching. You haven't directly addressed whether I am allowed to repost your (your, it is yours right? cue note about the lack of transparancy in the moderation of tl) PM. The worst it will do is might enrage people like me and get them thinking.
I'm having second thoughts about whether I want to post it. The member in question truly has a bad record, and it could be embarrassing to have your words taken out of context. For example, the bit about being a zombie in context is really a reference to the auto PM the member in question sent. However, I think that I trust most people to look deeper into the context. Also there is no doubt the mass majority of people will see it the way you do, so it think it should be fine.
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Katowice25012 Posts
TL could be significantly more strict with moderating without damaging a thing
Framing this as some kind of free speech issue is the height of absurdity though
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tl is pretty liberal in moderation. You can get away with a lot. Unfortunately, and I know this from experience, when you DO cross that [sometimes arbitrary] line, they come down hard. Tl always gives me this mixed feeling of complete lawlessness yet the fear one might experience under an authoritarian dictatorship. Oh well, I enjoy it.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On June 07 2009 15:56 datscilly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2009 15:28 Kennigit wrote:On June 07 2009 15:20 datscilly wrote:
I thought that the DeathSpank's blog OP was interesting and everyone should be allowed to see it if they wanted to. What are the moderators afraid of, that everyone would go on an uprising if they saw it? Basically, the attitude one mod took in private was interesting and you're liabile to be called out on that. DeathSpank's posting quality is subpar. It is my job to judge that and determine he is decent enough to be given a chance. He has 500+ posts and no other bad history so he gets a warning. Pretty standard - infact we have a list of auto PMs to send to shitty posters (warez links, one liners, drop in quality etc). The one he posted was one of the set (LOL you think i have time to write that up for one kid!. I'm not really sure what you are talking about moderators afraid of and hiding stuff. We aren't really hiding from anything in our own home.... As or his blog i closed it because he is trying to be a martyr or something. I really don't need to justify this lol. If he was trying to be a martyr then why would you close the blog thread? Sure, people who didn't see it never will, but people who did will notice the squelching. You haven't directly addressed whether I am allowed to repost your (your, it is yours right? cue note about the lack of transparancy in the moderation of tl) PM. The worst it will do is might enrage people like me and get them thinking.
You are under the assumption that i or anyone else would care. When we send you a warning it's for your benefit not ours...what would i have hide? He can post the warning if he wants but his thread was useless. There's people trying to deliver quality content, not complain about a warning PM they got. It's really really not a big deal.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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I just read that. Perhaps I'm not entitled to judge as I got my share of warnings/bans myself but that thread was really low quality posting, even for a blog.
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I think the moderation is fine here. I have never felt that I didnt have free speech. I say whatever comes to my mind and it has never gotten me in trouble. If anything the moderation is a bit lax.
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United States20661 Posts
We make no pretense of adhering to tenets of 'free speech'. Reasonable speech, definitely. But mensrea's precedent of moderation holds to a degree; he always liked to talk about how the now-defunct broodwar.com fell due to their extremely lax posting standards. The boys over at gg.net suffer from similar lawlessness.
So overall I feel some degree of censorship betters the overall quality of these fora. It's done well for us in the past - I see no reason why it must change in the future.
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On June 07 2009 15:37 Kennigit wrote:
omninmo has about 10 warnings/bans for being sub par.
hehe I got one warning from Chill when I posted about Klazart and Inc. 
Most of the time, I try not to cross the line. Just use common sense.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2009 15:25 Kennigit wrote:
Just some thoughts.
What has always separated TL from other forums for me (even long before i got staffed) was a sense of identity. Strict moderation makes people think twice about what they are posting - that is an emotional and time investment. I can go on some random gaming blog and type "lol nice" thousands of times and no one has any idea who i am. I have invested nothing. I have no return. On TL once i hit a few hundred posts, have been through a couple heated discussions, i have invested time and interest not only into my posts but those around me. Maybe i argued with Idra about God. Maybe i made a thread about moderation standards. People see my name and based on my opinions and posts slowly start to get a character profile.
Why would i want to fuck that up? What a waste of time that would have been if i had tried decently and then had it all down the toilet cause i was too stubborn to meet a very reasonable standard. I watch new posters like a hawk because its fascinating to see people slowly evolve from 12 post nobody into a big contributor. I remember Blizzcon last year when people started spamming WATERDRAGONGHOSTCLAW all over the place and i had no idea who this kid was. Today he's about to help launch one of the biggest features we've done this year. If he hadn't become emotionally invested do you think he would have bothered?
The fact that you even made this blog shows that you care. As mods/admins our job is to be shepards - its to say "hey...thats not how we roll" and often thats all it takes to make a "lol check dis thread" into a decent contributor. Im not sure the stats on re-bans are - probably for some people all it takes is one 2 day ban to smarten them up. Other's that can't adapt are lost causes.
I don't like to draw a distinction between staff and veterans. The reason vets are vets is because they have invested time and energy into meeting expectations - staff simply represent the group and provide guidelines for noobies to rise through the ranks. If someone invests a couple hours a day into browsing or posting, they shouldn't have that ruined by someone who can't be bothered to be decent. We have enough people who do care and that do want to be here - those that are complacent and couldn't give a fuck get washed out. On June 07 2009 16:20 Last Romantic wrote:
We make no pretense of adhering to tenets of 'free speech'. Reasonable speech, definitely. But mensrea's precedent of moderation holds to a degree; he always liked to talk about how the now-defunct broodwar.com fell due to their extremely lax posting standards. The boys over at gg.net suffer from similar lawlessness.
So overall I feel some degree of censorship betters the overall quality of these fora. It's done well for us in the past - I see no reason why it must change in the future.
I truly appreciate your responses and insight, especially into the culture and attitude of tl moderating. The mods replying rather than ignoring has made this a worthwhile experience.
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raise your hand if you knew I was trolling the entire time. Good, now listen up the one liners were intentional. As were the rest of may "subpar" posts. I must admit I've been holding a grudge ever since I was in my mind unjustly banned for the first time. I made a joke in a thread that was immature and not thought out. However I was not given any chance to apologize or defend myself in any way for the next time I logged in I was banned. I proceeded to read about how everyone wanted to tear me a new one because I made a single tasteless joke and was shocked that I had caused such a lash back. However I could not amend my reputation or explain my innocence. I was pissed. However I still wanted to post in TL because I find it to be a high quality forum. So I continued, and over time I began to find myself challenging the rules. Such as one liners etc.. In part to prove that they don't destroy a forum and in a larger part to vent my annoyance and restlessness my grudge has caused me. Am I right in my actions? No, I acted childish and even ignorant of my own actions.
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freedom of speech doesn't mean you can be an idiot
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Look what free speech did to the real world. Kim Kardashian (whothefuckareyouian?) does a paris and sexes someone on TV, Klu Klux Klan, papparazis lying in bushes shoving their cameras as far up the celebrity vagina as they can possibly reach, puke-porn, Jerry Springer, etc
Too much of anything is not good, and that includes freedom.
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On June 07 2009 16:34 jodogohoo wrote:
freedom of speech doesn't mean you can be an idiot
yes it does. That's exactly what it means. It means that if a nazi, terrorist, communist, redneck, ghetto gang banger, disabled person, random idiot etc... they have the right to speak their mind.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On June 07 2009 16:34 DeathSpank wrote:
raise your hand if you knew I was trolling the entire time. Good, now listen up the one liners were intentional. As were the rest of may "subpar" posts. I must admit I've been holding a grudge ever since I was in my mind unjustly banned for the first time. I made a joke in a thread that was immature and not thought out. However I was not given any chance to apologize or defend myself in any way for the next time I logged in I was banned. I proceeded to read about how everyone wanted to tear me a new one because I made a single tasteless joke and was shocked that I had caused such a lash back. However I could not amend my reputation or explain my innocence. I was pissed. However I still wanted to post in TL because I find it to be a high quality forum. So I continued, and over time I began to find myself challenging the rules. Such as one liners etc.. In part to prove that they don't destroy a forum and in a larger part to vent my annoyance and restlessness my grudge has caused me. Am I right in my actions? No, I acted childish and even ignorant of my own actions.
Sorry. It's the internet. Get over it. Instead of acting like a angry nerd why not waste that time and energy on something worthwhile? We have 40,000 active members. Do you think people even notice who you are unless you make a point of getting noticed like this and get yourself banned?
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On June 07 2009 16:43 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2009 16:34 DeathSpank wrote:
raise your hand if you knew I was trolling the entire time. Good, now listen up the one liners were intentional. As were the rest of may "subpar" posts. I must admit I've been holding a grudge ever since I was in my mind unjustly banned for the first time. I made a joke in a thread that was immature and not thought out. However I was not given any chance to apologize or defend myself in any way for the next time I logged in I was banned. I proceeded to read about how everyone wanted to tear me a new one because I made a single tasteless joke and was shocked that I had caused such a lash back. However I could not amend my reputation or explain my innocence. I was pissed. However I still wanted to post in TL because I find it to be a high quality forum. So I continued, and over time I began to find myself challenging the rules. Such as one liners etc.. In part to prove that they don't destroy a forum and in a larger part to vent my annoyance and restlessness my grudge has caused me. Am I right in my actions? No, I acted childish and even ignorant of my own actions. Sorry. It's the internet. Get over it. Instead of acting like a angry nerd why not waste that time and energy on something worthwhile? We have 40,000 active members. Do you think people even notice who you are unless you make a point of getting noticed like this and get yourself banned?
exactly, that's my point. I'm not arguing with you.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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On June 07 2009 17:28 Kennigit wrote:
Well ok then!
And don't you forget it!
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On June 07 2009 14:27 EsX_Raptor wrote:
I don't see teamliquid as some sort of house for senior citizens. I've always seen it as a prison, pretty much like that of the series Prison Break; there is disorder from time to time and it won't be a big of a deal unless it is something really serious. Otherwise there's always room for the users to be creative, make stuff out of nothing (like making hand made knives), get important shit from exterior sources (like smuggling drugs into prison) there will always be some corrupted mod (which hands important stuff to a selected group of users which he trusts, most likely the vets) and as always, bash on the fish and teach them the rules of the game. This is why old posters are favored, they already for a part on the big family.
lol prison break. <3
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On June 07 2009 16:39 Osmoses wrote:
Look what free speech did to the real world. Kim Kardashian (whothefuckareyouian?) does a paris and sexes someone on TV, Klu Klux Klan, papparazis lying in bushes shoving their cameras as far up the celebrity vagina as they can possibly reach, puke-porn, Jerry Springer, etc
Too much of anything is not good, and that includes freedom.
Besides the KKK (lawl I love that name), I don't see how any of what you mentioned relates to free speech..
Freedom also means you are free to ignore any of the things you listed.
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If it weren't for free speech I wouldn't have to walk into a convenience store and see celebrity vaginas in the newsstand, and if I was really lucky I might not even know such a thing as puke-porn existed because the degenerates who perpetrated it would have been shut down. I would be a much happier person if shit like Jerry Springer with his "I married a lesbian hebrew transsexual" topics didn't effing exist.
I'm a grumpy old man of 25 years.
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On June 07 2009 20:21 Osmoses wrote:
If it weren't for free speech I wouldn't have to walk into a convenience store and see celebrity vaginas in the newsstand, and if I was really lucky I might not even know such a thing as puke-porn existed because the degenerates who perpetrated it would have been shut down. I would be a much happier person if shit like Jerry Springer with his "I married a lesbian hebrew transsexual" topics didn't effing exist.
I'm a grumpy old man of 25 years.
If you lived in an authoritarian government, whose ideology was built on puke porn and talk-shows for blacks and rednecks, you would have no other choice but to watch that while being forced to play with your plastic celebrity vagina replication.
I am also 25, and I know where you are coming from with this, but freedom is something you would not be able to live without, believe me.
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On June 07 2009 15:25 Kennigit wrote:
Maybe i argued with Idra about God.
right of passage imo
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United States24768 Posts
On June 07 2009 14:49 datscilly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2009 14:43 micronesia wrote:
The concept of 'free speech' is not applicable to teamliquid as that only involves government.
Any argument that you make about how mods should loosen up, or whatever, should be made with the goal of making tl more enjoyable... not obeying some pre-written rules about what should or shouldn't be allowed or encouraged. In some cases you did that, and in others you didn't. I disagree. The internet, one could argue, was made for free speech.
No, one could not argue that, because you are completely missing the point. Free speech prevents the government from censoring what we say. Although we all have a lot of respect for the admins/mods, they are not the government. They are not required to offer the users of tl 'free speech'.
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If you go to someone's house and shit on their rug, you expect to get punched in the face. This is no different. Not a hard concept. Pay the fucking bills if you want free speech.
God, these threads are so fucking annoying
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I like TL and how its run <3
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sometimes they power trip
actually i dont even know how to describe my situation.
i get banned from teh strat section. I didnt realize i was posting sht until AFTER i get a permanent ban. I try to apoligize and add that I was NEVER FUCKING NOTIFIED, NOT ONE WARNING. Then I get a mssg like "if the quality is obviously that bad, then i dont give warnings". I understand bad quality, but not even a warning? I didnt want to drag the situation further because i really dont care anymore...
I like how TL is run, but i agree sometimes it can be very uptight.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Dunno, I do agree that sometimes they should probably issue a warning beforehand and say "stop being a fucking idiot" before pulling something like the banhammer. But I do agree on the moderation of forums. It keeps the quality level of posts up and it just makes browsing all that much more enjoyable. Who the hell wants to read what trolls post and other bullshit?
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On June 08 2009 02:58 Sonu wrote:
sometimes they power trip
actually i dont even know how to describe my situation.
i get banned from teh strat section. I didnt realize i was posting sht until AFTER i get a permanent ban. I try to apoligize and add that I was NEVER FUCKING NOTIFIED, NOT ONE WARNING. Then I get a mssg like "if the quality is obviously that bad, then i dont give warnings". I understand bad quality, but not even a warning? I didnt want to drag the situation further because i really dont care anymore...
I like how TL is run, but i agree sometimes it can be very uptight.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=Sonu&t=c&f=10&u=&gb=date
If you think you deserve the right to post comments in the strat forum after some of these gems, you truly deserve that ban. Your comments in the first four or five threads from the bottom up are horrible. D players shouldn't be giving out tips, especially shit like countering lurkerling with REAVERS?
For everyone in general, if you're unsure of why you got temped, that means you're not thinking when you're posting and you probably deserve it.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
if i ban you or send you a warning you did something very bad & should be ashamed of yourself
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United States24768 Posts
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Valhalla18444 Posts
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if i think you did something very bad, you did something very bad & should be ashamed of yourself
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more active forum is more important than a thoughtful forum.
right... i guess trolling forums > smart and polite forums huh?
if u can't add any more substance to the topic matter then you shouldn't post and if posting in such a instance would be wat u consider an active forum i would not want to have to have anything to do w/ such forums
It's true that the intention of a pm is that it's supposed to be private, but if the receiver does tell other people, it's not like one can or should be able to stop them. It's like giving someone a secret threat in a dark alley and punishing him again if he tries to speak out.
friggin dumb analogy...
so i guess revealing PM's w/o the consent of other person is like a computer takes in ur credit card number and all ur private info and displays it on the scrns in times sq rite?
freedom of speech doesn't mean u should be a douche nor does it mean that you have the freedom to release other people's private messages
btw if and when u get banned the msgs r put up in the ban thread (correct me if i'm wrong)
On June 07 2009 14:49 datscilly wrote:It seems like most people here favor the level of moderation that goes on in tl while acknowledging that it's harsh (and that's good, they say). However, have you been on the receiving end of it? The pm I read (out of context) seemed inappropriately harsh, and I though there could have been a better way to deal with it rather than to lose a member. Show nested quote +On June 07 2009 14:43 micronesia wrote:
The concept of 'free speech' is not applicable to teamliquid as that only involves government.
Any argument that you make about how mods should loosen up, or whatever, should be made with the goal of making tl more enjoyable... not obeying some pre-written rules about what should or shouldn't be allowed or encouraged. In some cases you did that, and in others you didn't. I disagree. The internet, one could argue, was made for free speech.
also ever heard of china? haha
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EPT
