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Ahh, im beginning to dislike a game ive been playing for years. the reason being, every game is just like another one you seen before. always the same shit. everyone sticking to their build orders like their religion. always ohh he's doing this i need to do this, as its been done before and works.
the fuck?
why are the koreans the only ones who make up their own bo's and strategies. why is it every game has been done before, and things either work, or dont work, based on strategy thats been discussed, used, re-used and either used by fucking everyone, or by no one.
every toss ive come up against till C rank, was ... wait for it... FAST EXPO.
every one of em.
fast expo
sair
reaver
edit: Reaver or dt/storm
WOW?
And yes, i know that theres still ALOT of people who DONT do this, but im' just saying, the majority of people have become robots, consumed by their bo's.
christ everyone so much fun, seriously. gonna play 30 games the exact same way? sit there for 10 mins after doing it thinking.. hmm what should i do now? what did bisu do?
honestly, some top korean will do something new, and when other see it, everyones doing it. over and over, thinking' if this works on jaedong!! it will work on anyone!!! :OI :O wow wow -.-;
what happened to people doing what they felt was right, from the get go. what happened to people having funnnnnnnnnnnn.
annoying.
/rant
 
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wait you claim EVERY opponent til C went rvr/sair ? :D:D:D
i doubt that^^
There are common BO's ofc, because they are the best of all and that was proven over years.
the real skill is to adapt the basic BO to the current game to get an advantage,
you don't do always EXACTLY the same.
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dude people below C cant even pull off a proper sair/reaver...
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Not the point im' making.
and yes i can safely say there was just 1!.
ONE guy who didnt FE. 1 guy around D+ that went 2gate.
edit: but yeah, i didnt JUST pvz. i play'd vs t as well. i'd say 60% was toss tho.
dude people below C cant even pull off a proper sair/reaver...
yeah but they still attempt it.
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the best way to improve is to do the same thing over and over again
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i hardly ever ever ever see the same game twice
perhaps you're just not focusing on the subtleties
i mean many inexperienced players say "the players do the same thing ever game. terrans make factory units vs P and MnM vs Z. it never changes."
however, there's obviously HUGE variations in what the players are doing all throughout the game. just look harder 
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I think you should quit sc, and go play WoW.
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Take week or so break from starcraft, the hunger to massgame will return.
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On April 20 2009 18:33 Vex wrote:
the fuck?
why are the koreans the only ones who make up their own bo's and strategies. why is it every game has been done before, and things either work, or dont work, based on strategy thats been discussed, used, re-used and either used by fucking everyone, or by no one.
every toss ive come up against till C rank, was ... wait for it... FAST EXPO.
You also forgot that they (Koreans) get paid to play.
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I have tried so many different build orders against zerg and have settled with fe as it gives me the best results. Are you suggesting I should use an inferior bo just so you dont get bored? sure I mix in the odd 1gate tech or 2gate, but I find against good zergs those builds dont work as well so I save them for when I play a weak player so I can just screw around with a one base reaver build or something like that.
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no matter how important having fun in sc is, winning is a huge part of it so why risk doing something nonstandard and lose to someone a lot worse than me
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I completely disagree with the OP. I'm actually amazed how I can play 10 games doing the same build but have 10 completely different outcomes (not just win or lose, but the way the game plays out, the way harassement goes, and how smoothly one can expand and/or transition into higher tech. There's always so much stuff going on. I love that part of SC.
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Every P iv played pvt, does fast dt in some form, every z iv played does 6 pool
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On April 20 2009 20:16 rel wrote:
Every P iv played pvt, does fast dt in some form, every z iv played does 6 pool
every toss i play tvp on destination manner pylons me -_-
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menotenous
lol
But seriously, I do stupid build orders all the time, usually to mix things up, but ocassionally because I screwed up a common one. And I lose 90% of the time. If somone is below C level, it's very beneficial to them to stick to what they know. We don't have the mechanics or game sense to pull off something fancy most of the time.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 20 2009 22:09 3clipse wrote:
But seriously, I do stupid build orders all the time, usually to mix things up, but ocassionally because I screwed up a common one. And I lose 90% of the time. If somone is below C level, it's very beneficial to them to stick to what they know. We don't have the mechanics or game sense to pull off something fancy most of the time.
Not to mention that most players till a fairly high levels don't understand enough of the subtle nuances that go into making a build to actually make a good one.
There are a thousand little things that go into squeezing every last mineral and perfecting all the miniscule timings of a progamer's build. To imply that some D+/C- ICCupper might be better off making up their own shit rather than using something that's been tested and retested among the best is extremely pretentious, especially since most low-level players can't even get progamer build timings right.
FE is standard PvZ now. Why? Because 1-base play is too handicapped on midgame options to be viable anymore. If you can't see that, then you obviously don't understand the game well enough.
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Wow, christ all mighty.
Your all missing the point, how is that possible. hasnt anyone here noticed that what im saying is an 11 year old game has very little origonality left? everyones doing whats strongest vs the other race, even tho theres no fun to it, just 9 mins of waiting?
fuck that.
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that doesnt make you want to be creative and try to find something that can crack these robot-like players? anything out of the ordinary and they'll be confused!
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The opening has little to do with the overall pace of the game.
If you think its boring, why don't you alter your own style enough to make each game unique?
The thing is that build orders aren't the end of variety. When you attack with how many of which kind of unit and how you micro them means that each game will go completely and totally differently. I've never seen a game of Starcraft play the same way twice - same build order or not.
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hehe your mood says  but your post says 
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I am trying, doing my own bo's and shit. it would be more fun if it didnt own the SAME fucking shit every game tho.
im jus trying 2 get more people to change.
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On April 20 2009 22:54 Vex wrote:
Wow, christ all mighty.
Your all missing the point, how is that possible. hasnt anyone here noticed that what im saying is an 11 year old game has very little origonality left? everyones doing whats strongest vs the other race, even tho theres no fun to it, just 9 mins of waiting?
fuck that.
On April 20 2009 23:01 Vex wrote:
I am trying, doing my own bo's and shit. it would be more fun if it didnt own the SAME fucking shit every game tho.
im jus trying 2 get more people to change.
This is by far the dumbest fucking blog I've ever seen, seriously. You need to go play something else and stop bitching about playing the game, there are tons of different build orders you can do that require timing and develops 'fun'. You just either a. suck at this game or b. you're vsing bad players that are beating you because you don't know how to play.
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On April 20 2009 23:31 lokiM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 22:54 Vex wrote:
Wow, christ all mighty.
Your all missing the point, how is that possible. hasnt anyone here noticed that what im saying is an 11 year old game has very little origonality left? everyones doing whats strongest vs the other race, even tho theres no fun to it, just 9 mins of waiting?
fuck that. Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 23:01 Vex wrote:
I am trying, doing my own bo's and shit. it would be more fun if it didnt own the SAME fucking shit every game tho.
im jus trying 2 get more people to change. This is by far the dumbest fucking blog I've ever seen, seriously. You need to go play something else and stop bitching about playing the game, there are tons of different build orders you can do that require timing and develops 'fun'. You just either a. suck at this game or b. you're vsing bad players that are beating you because you don't know how to play.
This.
In his case I think it is a combination of A and B.
I remember playing this guy once on desti. I hate that map. It was tvz. I played through bunker rush (or something) into expansion.. he tried a lurker contain I thought to myself "omg.. another one going for the lurker contain". I then beat him with marine/medic and some tanks and wraiths mixed in. He told me that I was boring or something before leaving the game. I lol'd.
Also, you are completely wrong saying that "this 11 yo game has been drained of creativity" or w/e you said earlier.. just look at tvz - a glaring example that this game is still evolving - it went from purely mnm to mnm or mech.. I don't like the fact that terrans play mech in tvz, but that is beside the point. SC strategies are still evolving.
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Yeah and in the 19th century chess was so much more beautiful than now.
Go away.
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Large collection of plastic here. reading things, but obviously too retarded to understand, so they make up something in their heads that makes sence to them, but infact is so derailed to the actual op, it infact makes them plastic. but np. its the most common thing ever from you people.
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your post are terrible as well, I wonder how long you'll last here.
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I thought that this thread was going to bash standard play but instead it generalized the entire game. Apparently, playing well is boring. "It's boring to expand to get more resources than your opponent. Why doesn't anyone stay on one base and only make dark archons or something." The reason is because most players on iccup aren't bad. It's not that the game is worse just because people are playing better, it's that the builds are done in a better way.
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On April 21 2009 01:23 Vex wrote:
Large collection of plastic here. reading things, but obviously too retarded to understand, so they make up something in their heads that makes sence to them, but infact is so derailed to the actual op, it infact makes them plastic. but np. its the most common thing ever from you people.
What?
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United States47024 Posts
On April 20 2009 22:54 Vex wrote:
Wow, christ all mighty.
Your all missing the point, how is that possible. hasnt anyone here noticed that what im saying is an 11 year old game has very little origonality left? everyones doing whats strongest vs the other race, even tho theres no fun to it, just 9 mins of waiting?
fuck that.
Obviously you're going to win using the best method possible. Why would you handicap yourself otherwise? That doesn't mean the game can't be interesting because the best possible action in any given situation is very different.
Chess openings have pretty much been exhaustively explored. No one is "making up their own openings", and still that doesn't mean the game isn't worth playing. The opening, just like a build order in Starcraft, defines only a very small part of how the game plays out, albeit an important one.
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Lol what do you want him to go?
Mass MC?
FE is probably the best opening in most of those new maps vs Zerg. All the others are very likely to put the protoss player on a slight disadvantage.
I like trying new things, and I love playing 1 base. However, last time I tried to pull a little Casy (1 base, nuke rush vs Zerg), it failed; You should have seen the amount of names I was called for trying "newbie tactic", "ridiculous cheese" etc.
I use often 'the stove' vs terran, and they dont respond lightly to it, regardless if it succeeds and fails.
People are too hot headed these days. Just let everyone play any which way they please :p
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On April 21 2009 06:48 Jumperer wrote:
ARE YOU A REPUBLICAN?
Hey, don't group Republicans with him 
Dear OP: I'm sorry you only have fun when people do random builds. I'm sorry you don't have fun when people play to win, and normally use builds designed to do just that.
Seriously, bitch more about people having fun in a different way than you.
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On April 20 2009 22:54 Vex wrote:
Wow, christ all mighty.
Your all missing the point, how is that possible. hasnt anyone here noticed that what im saying is an 11 year old game has very little origonality left? everyones doing whats strongest vs the other race, even tho theres no fun to it, just 9 mins of waiting?
fuck that.
no one cares about your silly blog if you're going to be ignorant, did u even bother to read day[9]'s post? or did u just dismiss it because you are OBVIOUSLY right, and EVERYONE DOES THE SAME SHIT- when in fact no one does?
The even sadder thing is you're trying to be an individualist ; but in actuality you're just another typical kid that is nerd raging because you lose on iccup.
tip: get over yourself and take criticism for what it is; although i doubt you will even see this as something constructive and take only offense to it.
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Every PvT, PvZ or PvP i play my opponent always wins.
Unoriginal bastards!
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"Why ZvT on Destination is fun
There are so many strategic options for the Terran. Even the 8-rax rush can be executed in so many ways. In between nat and ramp-expo, behind the main, in between the main and the nat, in the middle of the map, in his ramp-expo... The possibilities are endless. Then there is the follow-up. 1fac1star, 1fac expo, 2fac, 1fac2star, 3rax all-in, mine the mineral behind base and sneak vultures in, push marines and vultures and sneak a vulture in, sneak a 5hp vulture in and kill 15 drones.
It's so fun having to think strategically and guessing what the Terran is thinking. I must have been cheesed in every possible form. Every time something new came up I usually lost. I've seen a BBS build that was pretty clever. Against good players, the mind games are not very typical. They'll make sure you get tricked and even if you see it, they thought it through, so they have very good follow-ups. Against bad players, it's easy to spot a cheese and their follow-ups suck.
I'm not being sarcastic at all actually. It's fun having to counter these various strategies and actually having to think during a game."
From another blog; this means you aren't at a good enough level to appreciate the differences.
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Contrary to what a lot of people think. 1 gate tech builds by P are still very much alive and viable vs Zerg. You just have to know what you're doing. Oh yeah. Only do it on maps with ramps. That helps too. ^^
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Ahh everyone ignores the OP, reads 2 lines and goes I THINK I KNOW WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, then writes a completely retarded and un-related post about it.
Thats kinda sad fellas. and by ignores the op, i said in that post everyone i came up against until C did the exact same thing. no one commented on that, at all. No one, infact that loki guy said the complete opposite, as if i didnt even write that in the blog.
Rofl. seriously Rofl.
Ignorance is bliss i suppose.
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because those player below c are trying to get better by focusing on their mechanics
when you're below c i doubt you can do some builds because you dont have the multitask or game sense to pull it off.
If you're talking about how people are stubborn yeah some people dont try to change their game plan or do something out of the norm from their style because they're comfortable with it. They do things that they had success with.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 21 2009 18:51 Vex wrote:
Ahh everyone ignores the OP, reads 2 lines and goes I THINK I KNOW WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, then writes a completely retarded and un-related post about it.
Thats kinda sad fellas. and by ignores the op, i said in that post everyone i came up against until C did the exact same thing. no one commented on that, at all. No one, infact that loki guy said the complete opposite, as if i didnt even write that in the blog.
Rofl. seriously Rofl.
Because its NOT TRUE.
Every game opened FE =/= every player did the same thing.
Every player tried opening sair/Reaver =/= every player did the same thing.
They're OPENINGS. They're hardly supposed to constitute the strategy for the entire game, and there's nothing wrong with them being formulaic, because other long-lasting strategic games like Chess and Go have had the opening pretty exhaustively explored too. Telling a D level Protoss player that he shouldn't fast expand is like telling a beginner at Go that he shouldn't open by playing around the corners (sorry for the Go analogy, but I'm more familiar with it than Chess). If you beat them before they have a chance to move into something else, its because they're D players, and don't have skills yet to keep up into the midgame, but does that mean they're wrong for practicing an opening they're weak with?
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I play terran at D+ and I want to get to C before sc2 comes out. Basically the reason why I picked up T as a race is because I loved the cute style of play, when me and my friends first started playing I was always kicking their asses because I had good cute moves.
Then when I started on iccup I realized how horrible my macro was. P and Z have this game so freaking easy in that they can make so many mistakes and come back from it, they can afford to add styles to their build and a lot do. But for lil old me I feel like im baby sitting my units so much in tvz to stop them from getting reduced to a bloody pulp in 3 seconds by a few lurkers and baby sitting my factories so much and trying to get the right timing down so I have enough units for a push before P gets too powerfull that in the end I just don't have enough time for style.
This however is why I like playing Bo3-5's/training games with people from TL.net, because after you find a guy with a similar or slightly better skill level you can have confidence in your macro and outthink, outstyle your opponent.
If your getting bored of playing the same thing, my suggestion is to stop playing regular rated games and start asking people for Bo5s. By the 5th game you will be playing so different its a lot of fun.
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On April 21 2009 23:50 extracheez wrote:
I play terran at D+ and I want to get to C before sc2 comes out. Basically the reason why I picked up T as a race is because I loved the cute style of play, when me and my friends first started playing I was always kicking their asses because I had good cute moves.
Then when I started on iccup I realized how horrible my macro was. P and Z have this game so freaking easy in that they can make so many mistakes and come back from it, they can afford to add styles to their build and a lot do. But for lil old me I feel like im baby sitting my units so much in tvz to stop them from getting reduced to a bloody pulp in 3 seconds by a few lurkers and baby sitting my factories so much and trying to get the right timing down so I have enough units for a push before P gets too powerfull that in the end I just don't have enough time for style.
This however is why I like playing Bo3-5's/training games with people from TL.net, because after you find a guy with a similar or slightly better skill level you can have confidence in your macro and outthink, outstyle your opponent.
If your getting bored of playing the same thing, my suggestion is to stop playing regular rated games and start asking people for Bo5s. By the 5th game you will be playing so different its a lot of fun.
at last, a non-retarded answer
thanks, thats a great idea. il inhouse more. public less.
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Mm, yah, the game is 11 years old, and most ideas are on the verge of being perfected. There is little room for creativity which is left for the most skilled players who can pull out different and absurd moves.
There are a lot of people in iccup who are practicing, and perfecting their mechanics through repetition. Of course, you can expect them to copy what they have seem a million times. If the pro gamers used a BO on a map, it most be a good idea, since it is in their best interest to win, and it is their area of excellence.
However, dont these repetitions benefit the innovators? Dont they give you opportunities to explore time window frames for a never before seem offensive?
I dont know how you feel, but as for me I find terribly fun to be the innovator myself. I love re-watching replays, looking for cue point where I could have an opportunity for a lurker drop, dt drop, nuke rush, lockdown, cloaked wraiths or whatever might work.
Could you however, elaborate a bit more on what kind of strategy are you are hoping from your opponents when you play?
Cuz perhaps, yes, the game got old and became boring, with that we cant help. Take some time away.
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You should use firefox for the auto spellchecker: monotonous*
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On April 21 2009 18:51 Vex wrote:Ignorance is bliss i suppose.
Oh the irony.
Make your own builds! You know exactly what's coming (sair reaver), so you should be able to tailor your build to be a complete counter to it. (Hey I'm playing a Protoss I will go and Sauron zerg and power nothing but drones midgame because I know he will sair reaver without even having to scout!) Not only that, but mix things up yourself! Be your own catalyst for change! One base tech, two gate pressure, 2 gate builds, even two base scouts, are all still very viable on the C level of Starcraft downwards. Whether they play the same or not, you can still have fun with mixing up your own builds to always create a different game each time.
As for people misreading your point, maybe it's because you haven't been able to convey it coherently, and can't explain it without calling people retarded every other sentence.
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On April 22 2009 08:59 CharlieMurphy wrote:
You should use firefox for the auto spellchecker: monotonous*
Foolish kid, some spellings are different in america.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 24 2009 19:02 Vex wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2009 08:59 CharlieMurphy wrote:
You should use firefox for the auto spellchecker: monotonous* Foolish kid, some spellings are different in america.
Actually, the Oxford English Dictionary has no entry for "menotenous". Its wrong no matter where you are.
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On April 24 2009 19:02 Vex wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2009 08:59 CharlieMurphy wrote:
You should use firefox for the auto spellchecker: monotonous* Foolish kid, some spellings are different in america.
For example not capitalizing country names?
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Yes, there are some different spellings between English speaking countries like the UK, USA, and Canada, but there is nowhere in the fucking world where the word is spelled "menotenous".
Infact, the misspelling of "monotonous" in the form of "menotenous" is apparently so rare due to its incredible stupidity that when I googled "menotenous" into google, the first result was this thread. There was also only 422 results for this word compared to about 4,180,000 results for the correct spelling.
For fuck's sake.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 25 2009 08:23 koreasilver wrote:
Infact, the misspelling of "monotonous" in the form of "menotenous" is apparently so rare due to its incredible stupidity that when I googled "menotenous" into google, the first result was this thread. There was also only 422 results for this word compared to about 4,180,000 results for the correct spelling.
Amusingly, all but 1 of the results on the first page were forums (with the remaining one being a social networking site).
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Wow, you guys are so biased.
The OP is partially right, every match up, on all promaps have been studied to death, and most people (on ICCUP especially, around C level in particular I'd think) simply mimic the pros; which invertible results in a lot of repetition.
I just play on BNet when I get bored, I go scout rush against Terrans lol
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United States47024 Posts
On April 25 2009 12:46 Cambium wrote:
Wow, you guys are so biased.
The OP is partially right, every match up, on all promaps have been studied to death, and most people (on ICCUP especially, around C level in particular I'd think) simply mimic the pros; which invertible results in a lot of repetition.
I just play on BNet when I get bored, I go scout rush against Terrans lol
He has a point, but his REASONS for that opinion are all wrong.
"All Protosses go FE" is not a reason to think the game is stagnant. FE has noticeable advantages over one-base play (though many don't play out at low levels) that justify its use beyond "copying progamers".
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Not to mention that after forge FE, there are a lot of different variations you can do.
The guy just doesn't understand the game.
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This actually inspired me into trying a Nal_rA build with fake FE.
Do you recall when Nal_rA used to go 8 Pylon, 9 gas, 11 forge, something like that? Then get quick +1 and zealots/Archon
He used to build a packed base, though, what if we tried that at the expansion position?
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i have a hard time believing this kid has reached C with zerg
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I play 2v2v2v2 BGH on USEast when I get tired of the stress and monotony of iccup.
Loads of fun to just blow off steam 
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On April 22 2009 08:59 CharlieMurphy wrote:
You should use firefox for the auto spellchecker: monotonous*
who needs to check spelling when we have you?
On April 26 2009 08:33 Diomedes wrote:
Chess.
Best post ever.
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On April 20 2009 19:19 Gnojfatelob wrote:
Take week or so break from starcraft, the hunger to massgame will return.
Yeah I agree. I've had my share of frustration over various shit that happens, and I've a couple times wondered to myself "Why am I doing this? Isn't this a huge waste of time?" But I have the insatiable desire to compete and win. It really couldn't be any other way.
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EPT
