EPTwait nm FUCK THIS THREAD
Bipolar disorder - Page 2
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
On April 20 2009 15:54 ibutoss wrote: Well good for you if you can stick it out and support your friend. I just can't do it. Depressed people are so draining and they just suck the life out of everything around them. Maybe, but they also tend to have some excellent artistic abilities. They're not valueless leeches. Well... I only say that based on knowing that many talented actors and artists have mental disorders... It may not always work both ways... | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
you shouldn't act like that regardless of how confident you are that you're right. I agree completely with raith, and if anything I am a little bi-polar myself. so don't be a dick. Raithed don't be upset that a lot of people here don't understand what you are saying. It is common. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32141 Posts
He's an idiot, and that's completely wrong. | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On April 21 2009 00:39 Raithed wrote: you CANNNNN control it, cant you? i mean you KNOW what you did wrong but you already *did* it already. honest to say, arent we all a little bipolar? Of course within the realm of all remote possibilities in the universe, yes you could. But that's like asking a kleptomaniac to not packrat and steal, or like asking an OCD to not do his rituals. Actually, bipolar is probably more difficult to control than kleptomania and OCD. There is a reason why it is a diagnosed disorder...and that is because it's not simply an up and down of moods...it's severe enough that it warrants the attention of shrinks and psychologists (I know that's somewhat circular, but...). It can have severely damaging effects on a person's life, and simply brushing it off like that isn't fair to the person and the people around them. Yes, we are all "a little bipolar"...however, most of us don't have a bipolar disorder. EDIT On April 21 2009 03:38 travis wrote: you shouldn't act like that regardless of how confident you are that you're right. I agree completely with raith, and if anything I am a little bi-polar myself. so don't be a dick. Raithed don't be upset that a lot of people here don't understand what you are saying. It is common. It's pretty clear what he's saying, and I still don't think he's any more right. There's a clear difference between you and someone with a bipolar disorder...it doesn't mess with your overall lifestyle like it does theirs. If it's not severe enough to warrant some kind of professional attention, then it's not relevant here. I'm not pushing for the complete foil of what you're saying...I don't think the OP's friend should be babied or anything like that, but expecting such as you and Raith are simply isn't going to happen. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On April 21 2009 07:44 Hawk wrote: Are you kidding me lol He's an idiot, and that's completely wrong. Bi-Polar is a mood disorder. It is the same as being very very moody. Even very very moody people can learn to sit still and be quiet. Even very very moody people can learn to recognize their own mood swings, and understand that when their mood is changing they ought to slow down and be more careful about their decision-making. If you disagree with this, then why? | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On April 21 2009 07:44 PH wrote: There's a clear difference between you and someone with a bipolar disorder...it doesn't mess with your overall lifestyle like it does theirs. If it's not severe enough to warrant some kind of professional attention, then it's not relevant here. Bi-polar is just a term for a group of symptoms. Let me tell you that I am completely sure I have had to deal with those symptoms for most of my life, and I have struggled against them. Sure, it may not be the exact same or as extreme as it is for others, but I don't see how that is relevant. It's all relative in the first place. What do you think people with these problems did before there was awareness of it? They just dealt with it. Surely people with bi-polar have the same capabilities for self improvement as the rest of us. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Without drug assistance, some mental disorders are literally impossible to control, especially when the disorder very much has to do with self control. Ask a depressed person to stop being depressed. What goes thru their head is all the pessimism that the disorder causes in the first place "I can't," "It's impossible," "It's hopeless." Similarly, tell someone with bi-polar on their upswing to stop trying to do so much and they'll tell you "Why? Being actives not a bad thing!" "I'm happy, why should I stop?" If they could just control their mood, like a non-afflicted person... Then they wouldn't be classified as having the disorder in the first place. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On April 21 2009 08:04 Chef wrote: I'm no neurologist, but I'm guessing that the chemicals in the brain of the person who has this disorder will be preventing them from 'just slowing down.' It's not a conscious decision what chemicals your brain is moving. It is the same chemicals as anyone else when they have the same types of mood swings. The reason they are diagnosed with bi-polar is that the swings are common enough and intense enough that they or others determined that they need help. I absolutely agree that you do not control what you feel. But you do control how you react to those feelings. I am not saying that is easy, it is learned and developed over time(unless you are lucky enough to naturally be mindful enough to do it). It'd be like saying 'yeah, if you just think really hard, you'll be able to slow or speed up your heart rate at will.' well actually that is also possible to learn Without drug assistance, some mental disorders are literally impossible to control, especially when the disorder very much has to do with self control. I don't think this disorder has anything to do with self control. Ask a depressed person to stop being depressed. What goes thru their head is all the pessimism that the disorder causes in the first place "I can't," "It's impossible," "It's hopeless." Similarly, tell someone with bi-polar on their upswing to stop trying to do so much and they'll tell you "Why? Being actives not a bad thing!" "I'm happy, why should I stop?" It's what they call a 'vicious cycle'  I am not saying that the "disorder" is self-curable, because I don't think I can convince people of that. What I am saying is that regardless of how you feel - whether it be pain pleasure sadness etc etc - it is fully possible to learn to control your actions. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
well actually that is also possible to learn It's not. You can physically slow down your breathing, and stop moving, but you can't just tell your heart to slow down. Unless you have an example of someone who is able to breathe quickly or at least normally, while slowing down their heart rate, I don't believe it. I am not saying that the "disorder" is self-curable, because I don't think I can convince people of that. What I am saying is that regardless of how you feel - whether it be pain pleasure sadness etc etc - it is fully possible to learn to control your actions. Okay, I misunderstood. Sure, if someone is sad, they can choose to put on an non-genuine smile so others don't worry, but it doesn't really fix how they feel. Someone who is extremely angry and in a rage can not punch a hole in their wall, but it doesn't change that their internal dialogue is going crazy. I don't really understand why you bring it up. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On April 21 2009 08:16 Chef wrote: It's not. You can physically slow down your breathing, and stop moving, but you can't just tell your heart to slow down. Unless you have an example of someone who is able to breathe quickly or at least normally, while slowing down their heart rate, I don't believe it. well it is fine if you are skeptical of what I am saying but as human beings we do have internal senses, internal awareness, and we do have influence and control over all the parts of our body if we train for it. Okay, I misunderstood. Sure, if someone is sad, they can choose to put on an non-genuine smile so others don't worry, but it doesn't really fix how they feel. Someone who is extremely angry and in a rage can not punch a hole in their wall, but it doesn't change that their internal dialogue is going crazy. I don't really understand why you bring it up. because none of us should be living for self gratification. we need to think about how our actions affect others, and behave accordingly. punching that hole in the wall does not change how they feel, it only creates a hole in the wall. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On April 21 2009 07:52 travis wrote: Bi-Polar is a mood disorder. It is the same as being very very moody. Even very very moody people can learn to sit still and be quiet. Even very very moody people can learn to recognize their own mood swings, and understand that when their mood is changing they ought to slow down and be more careful about their decision-making. If you disagree with this, then why? Sure, that's one way to look at it...but equating bipolar to being "very very moody" is potentially an unfair gloss. If that's the case, then it'd be safe to say I, and many people I know (who don't) have bipolar, then. That's a very bad gloss. And once again...sure, one could work against it, but expecting too much from just that is simply not fair. On April 21 2009 07:56 travis wrote: Bi-polar is just a term for a group of symptoms. Let me tell you that I am completely sure I have had to deal with those symptoms for most of my life, and I have struggled against them. Sure, it may not be the exact same or as extreme as it is for others, but I don't see how that is relevant. It's all relative in the first place. What do you think people with these problems did before there was awareness of it? They just dealt with it. Surely people with bi-polar have the same capabilities for self improvement as the rest of us. Then let me tell you that I have as well. Of course mine aren't as severe as someone who is diagnosed with a bipolar disorder, but it has negatively affected various aspects of my life more or less severely in the past. In fact, I know many people who have suffered through and suffer through such symptoms...and it's negatively affected various aspects of their lives more or less severely in the past as well. None of that is relevant at all. It's not up to you to decide what severity of symptoms warrants a "disorder" diagnosis. That's up to professionals much more knowledgeable than you or I. There are many people who never get diagnosed for bipolar disorder even when such professional help could help them. Sure, some of them may end up eventually be able to improve their conditions, but I am also sure that the vast majority of them don't. Even people who are diagnosed and do receive help/treatment/whatever often don't find their way out of it. (I know somebody is going bring up about how getting a diagnosis for such a problem may hinder their progress towards finding their way out of it, but I'm not going to go out of my way to talk about that) | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32141 Posts
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ahrara_
Afghanistan1715 Posts
On April 21 2009 08:41 Hawk wrote: Oh man, the amount of stupid bullshit in this thread is incredible. Where's frits? I find myself agreeing with Hawk for once. Travis, why do you think you are better qualified to insist on something with which you clearly don't have as much experience with as the people you're arguing against? The impact of mental illness isn't something anyone can make you appreciate over the internet. Unless you have some kind of disorder or yourself or you've spent time with people who have some kind of disorder, you really CANNOT speak on their behalf. For once can you just accept that other people may be right about something and that you are really, really, really wrong?! | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On April 21 2009 08:41 Hawk wrote: Oh man, the amount of stupid bullshit in this thread is incredible. Where's frits? Oh common. I may not be a psych MAJOR, but I have taken psych courses and know just as much as him | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On April 21 2009 08:59 ahrara_ wrote: I find myself agreeing with Hawk for once. Travis, why do you think you are better qualified to insist on something with which you clearly don't have as much experience with as the people you're arguing against? The impact of mental illness isn't something anyone can make you appreciate over the internet. Because what I have been arguing since I joined this thread is universal to all humans. It doesn't matter what disorder they have. What is it you think I am claiming, why do you not dispute it directly or just announce that you disagree, rather than trying to undermine my points by saying I have a lack of experience(which really you have no clue how much experience with bi-polar I do or do not have). Unless you have some kind of disorder or yourself or you've spent time with people who have some kind of disorder, you really CANNOT speak on their behalf. For once can you just accept that other people may be right about something and that you are really, really, really wrong?! I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, if I realize it. The reason I am always in disputes with others here is that I am very confident and have no qualms about telling others that they are wrong. And I am very confident because I pick and choose my battles. If I don't have a clue wtf I am talking about I do not join in the debate. I do have a "disorder", adhd. Or maybe it's bi-polar. I experience symptoms from both. But it has nothing to do with it. Please don't lose track of what I was saying in the first place - which is the only point I have been making in this thread from the start. it could be good to point out to her certain types of behavior she illustrates if she seems unaware. she may not be able to control how she feels but she can control what she does, even if it is hard. but obviously she would need to trust you and it would require a certain amount of finesse. I am well aware that I come off as pretentious and stubborn to many people here. I wish it wasn't like that, it really isn't the type of person I am. But we can't all understand each other that easy, because many of us are different. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Because what I have been arguing since I joined this thread is universal to all humans. It doesn't matter what disorder they have. It actually does. Sometimes people with MDD will literally have less serotonin in their head than normal human beings, and this is what causes them to be unhappy. It's a genetic abnormality, not a state of mind. I think that's what you don't understand. I do have a "disorder", adhd. Or maybe it's bi-polar. I experience symptoms from both. You might be misdiagnosing yourself. Experiencing its symptoms is not the same as having it. They just indicate that you might have it. A person who coughs doesn't necessarily have a cold. If you think of mental disorders like other genetic abnormalities, for example someone who is born with only 3 fingers, then you might understand better why they can't just magically fix themselves with a good attitude. I'll say it again. Everyone is depressed sometimes. Everyone feels sad sometimes. That doesn't mean they have MDD or bi-polar disorder or the like. These disorders are all characterized as chronic, and debilitating. Maybe that's not the best way to describe it... But what I mean is... the moods come to a person for almost no reason whatsoever, or in very exaggerated ways... Whereas normal human beings are reacting to their environment rationally. Like people who have MAD. It's literally defined as irrational intense anxiety. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On April 21 2009 10:17 Chef wrote: It actually does. Sometimes people with MDD will literally have less serotonin in their head than normal human beings, and this is what causes them to be unhappy. It's a genetic abnormality, not a state of mind. I think that's what you don't understand. I am aware it is a genetic issue. I understand this. I don't see the relevance to what I am saying. Do you believe your genes control what you do? You might be misdiagnosing yourself. Experiencing its symptoms is not the same as having it. They just indicate that you might have it. Are you sure? From what I understand, mental disorders are diagnosed on symptoms alone, because there is currently no other way. If you think of mental disorders like other genetic abnormalities, for example someone who is born with only 3 fingers, then you might understand better why they can't just magically fix themselves with a good attitude. It was never my claim they could fix theirselves. It was my claim that they are still responsible for their own actions and they can learn to overcome their emotions in terms of what they say and do, but not how they feel. I'll say it again. Everyone is depressed sometimes. Everyone feels sad sometimes. That doesn't mean they have MDD or bi-polar disorder or the like. These disorders are all characterized as chronic, and debilitating. well I have dealt with high highs and low lows for all of my life. I have had periods of months, years even, of being depressed and wanting to die almost every day. But I am not trying to convince you I have bi-polar. The term doesn't mean anything to me other than the symptoms which are associated with it. | ||
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