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Craps - A Beginner's Guide

Blogs > micronesia
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micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
April 16 2009 19:50 GMT
#1
The only other tl thread about craps: Anyone Play Craps? [the dice game] (quite a gem lol)

I recently learned some craps, and I thought I'd share what it is and how it works. I'm guessing most tl users haven't played craps before (many aren't old enough yet I suppose). For anyone who is experienced at craps, feel free to add to this. This is an attempt at teaching the reader about craps in a more authentic manner than that which you can read online. I just went through the learning process so I should be able to help with some insights, and eliminate that which can be ignored (including most of the jargon which is confusing as hell, but not required to understand how to play). Skip to whichever section(s) interest you.

1. What is craps?

From Wikipedia: Craps is a dice game played against other players or a bank... In craps, players may wager money against each other (street craps) or the bank (bank craps) on the outcome of one roll, or of a series of rolls of two dice.

My comments: Most casinos have craps as one of the table games, along with blackjack, poker, etc. I'm only going to talk about the variety of craps where the players are against the dealer. Frankly I know almost nothing about how craps works when played privately.

2. What are the rules?

Craps is played at a big table with several dealers standing at fixed positions:

[image loading]

Confusing, aint it? You don't need to worry about all of those sections in order to play. The left side of the table is not shown, but it's just a mirror image of the right side.


The players can line up at each end of the table (from what I've seen recently, all of the players congregated at one end of the table, but this was probably due to the casino not being particularly crowded). There is one 'shooter' who throws two dice. The number rolled determines the outcome of the bets. Craps makes a lot more sense if you know how dice work:

+ Show Spoiler [review of dice] +

1. The most commonly rolled number is 7. This is because there are more 'ways' for each die number to add up to 7. You can roll 1-6, 2-5, 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, 6-1

2. The least commonly rolled numbers are 2 (snake eyes) and 12. The only way to get these is to roll 1-1 or 6-6 respectively.

[image loading]

You can see 7 is the most common, and 6 and 8 are each a little less common than 7. 5 and 9 are a little less common than 6 and 8. 4 and 10 are yet less common, etc.



There is a big plastic button that has the word 'off' on one side and 'on' on the other side. When the game starts, the button is showing the word 'off'. This can be thought of as phase one of craps. When the button shows 'off', the rules are very simple. If the shooter throws a 2, 3, or 12, the game is lost immediately. If the shooter throws a 7 or 11, the game is won immediately. In other words, the most common number, 7, is good, and the least common numbers (with the exception of 11) are bad. For the remaining numbers (4,5,6,8,9,10) the game is not yet decided. Supposing the shooter throw a 4, the dealer would flip the plastic button over to 'on' and would position it over the number '4' written on the table surface. This is now phase two of craps.

During phase two, the goal is for the shooter to throw the number that the 'on' button is on. In the example, the 'on' button is on '4' so the goal is to roll another 4. If the shooter rolls a 4, the game is won. If however the shooter rolls a 7, the game is lost. Every other number requires a re-roll. After the game is decided, the button is flipped back to 'off' and a new game begins.

3. How does betting work?

There are many ways to bet in craps, and it can get very confusing. I'm going to focus on the most basic bets which also have the smallest house advantage.

First Type of Bet: The Pass Line:

Notice on the picture of the craps table that there is a 'pass line.' At the beginning of the game you place a bet on this section of the table. For example, I can place a 5 dollar chip there. I can place bets even if I am not the shooter, but the shooter has to bet. If the shooter 'wins' then I get back double my money (so I would win 5 dollars for the game). If the shooter 'loses' then I lose the 5 dollars I played. This bet has a house edge of 1.41% which is much smaller (better) than that for most bets in roulette (5.3%). In other words, walking into a casino, placing 5 dollars on red (or black), and walking out with the winnings (or nothing) is inferior to doing the same thing with craps (placing 5 dollars on the pass line) mathematically (although it might take longer for the craps game to be decided than a quick spin in roulette).

Quick Examples:

1)
  • I place 5 dollars on the pass line.
  • The shooter throws a 7
  • I receive 10 dollars (5 won)


2)
  • I place 100 dollars on the pass line.
  • The shooter throws a 2
  • I lose that 100 dollars


3)
  • I place 20 dollars on the pass line.
  • The shooter throws a 5
  • The dealer turns the plastic button to 'on' and places it on '5'
  • The shooter throws a 7
  • I lose that 20 dollars


4)
  • I place 50 dollars on the pass line.
  • The shooter throws a 6
  • The dealer turns the plastic button to 'on' and places it on '6'
  • The shooter throws a 4
  • The shooter throws a 6
  • I receive 100 dollars (50 won)


Second Type of Bet: Pass Odds:

So you joined a table, placed 5 dollars on the pass line, and the shooter threw a 4 or 5 or 6 or 8 or 9 or 10. You have neither lost, nor won. You have the option (at most casinos) to make an additional bet that is equal to or greater in value than the pass bet you made earlier. The upper limit on how many times bigger this new bet can be than the first bet is set by the casino. For demonstrative purposes, I will say the casino allows the pass odds bet to be twice as big as the original pass line bet.

Since neither 2, 3, 7, 11, or 12 were thrown, the game is still going. You place 10 dollars down behind the 5 dollar chip you placed earlier. You still want the shooter to throw the number marked by the 'on' button before rolling a 7. If the shooter wins, you get back 10 dollars for the 5 dollar bet, as before, and additional winnings for the 10 dollar pass odds bet you made. You might be tempted to assume that the casino will pay you back 20, 10 for the original bet plus 10 additional dollars of winnings, but that assumption would be incorrect. You actually can get back more than that. The pass odds bet is better than the pass line bet.

The amount that the casino pays you for the pass odds bet depends on where that 'on' button is sitting. Essentially, the less likely it was that you would have won, the more money you get back on that bet if you win. Wikipedia explains how they are paid:

This additional bet wins if the point is rolled again before a 7 is rolled (the point is made) and pays at the true odds of 2-to-1 if 4 or 10 is the point, 3-to-2 if 5 or 9 is the point, and 6-to-5 if 6 or 8 is the point.

For a nice guide explaining this (how to make odds bets), see http://casinogambling.about.com/od/craps/ss/crapsodds.htm

The only problem with all these confusing numbers is that you have to plan how many chips to place down for the bets so that the payout if you win doesn't end up being in fractions of a chip. If this happens, I believe the casino will round down and pay you back slightly less than you should have earned.

The main advantage of the pass odds (or free odds as it's called) bet is that there is no house edge. They pay you according to the exact odds of winning/losing. In other words, it's similar to coinflip game where you get back double your money if you win. If a casino featured this game, normally they would only pay you back 90-97% of your winnings so that they could maintain an edge. The bigger you pass odds bet is relative to your pass line bet, the smaller the overall house advantage. The pass line and pass odds bet combine to give you the best odds out of any game in the entire casino.

The Third Type of Bet: Don't Pass Line:

Look on the picture of the table. You can see on top of the pass line is a separate region called the Don't Pass Bar. This works exactly like the Pass Line except for one obvious difference: you win if the shooter loses. All the rules are simply reversed, and the betting is otherwise essentially the same (including the Don't Pass Odds bet, which could be the fourth type of bet in this guide, except I won't bother to create a section for it). There is only one exception: 12 doesn't count as a win even though you'd think it should. Why? Think about the pass line bet. If you run through the math you will conclude that the house has a slightly higher chance of winning, meaning the player has a slightly higher chance of losing. If you and the casino switch sides, then you will be the one with the slight advantage. To nullify that, the casino does not allow you to win if a 12 is rolled.

It is generally frowned upon to make bets that go against the roller. As such, most players would play the pass line rather than the don't pass line (experienced players can correct me here if necessary). Part of the fun of craps is sharing a fate with the other players, so it makes more sense to bet with the shooter.

The Fifth Type of Bet: The Come Bet:

Oh god I don't feel like trying to explain this now haha. It's really simple once you get the hang of it and really tricky to explain to someone who's never watched people play craps. I'll just give a brief summary.

Once the button is set to 'on' and positioned on a number, you have something else you can do in addition to a pass odds bet (or don't pass odds bet). You can place a bet on the 'come' section on the table (you can easily find it due to the huge red letters I'm sure). There are three things that can happen with the chips on 'come.'

  • You can win and get back double your bet (play 5 dollars, get back 10 for a winnings of 5)
  • You can lose your 5 dollars
  • Your bet can get moved to another spot on the table


If the shooter rolls a 7 or 11, then you get the first option from that list (even though your pass bet loses, your come bet wins). If the shooter rolls a 2, 3, or 12, then the second option occurs. If the shooter rolls 4 or 5 or 6 or 8 or 9 or 10 then the third option occurs, and your bet is 'placed' into the box with the corresponding number. In other words, if I placed 5 dollars in the come box, and the shooter threw a 5, my chip would get moved into the box with the number '5.'

Once your chip is in the numbered box, you can add odds to that bet just like you did with the pass line bet (in other words if your 5 dollar come bet was moved to the 5 box, then you can bet another 10 along with the original 5). At this point your goal is for the shooter to roll a 5 before rolling a 7. If the shooter rolls a 7, you lose all those chips. If the shooter rolls a 5, then you get back double your money on the original 5 (just like with the pass line bet) and you also get back money on the 10 dollars odds bet. The amount you get back once again depends on which number your chips were sitting on. Since we are saying 5 was the point in this example, then you will get back 3-2 or 15 dollars on top of the 10 you get back.

One other thing to consider is, what happens if the shooter wins before rolling 5 (or whatever your chips are sitting on) or 7? You keep your chips sitting on that number, and the game restarts with the button off. A technicality: if your chips are still sitting on say, 5, and the shooter rolls a 5, then you win on the 5 dollars you put down originally in the come box, but you don't win with the 10 dollar odds bet you made afterward. Instead, you just get it back without any winnings. In other words, whenever craps is in phase one instead of phase two, your come odds bet is not in effect.

What's extremely fun about craps (in my experience) is when you keep placing come bets, and the shooter keeps rolling numbers other than 7, and before you know it you have chips on virtually every number, and you get back winnings every time the shooter hits one of those numbers. It can get extremely exciting.

Shit, that wasn't a brief summary was it.

The Other Types of Bets: Everything Else

There are other types of bets you can make directly on the different numbers (4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10) that are more complicated and I won't try to explain. Then there are lots of bets that are in effect for one roll only (similar to roulette). For example, you can place a bet on the 'field' which can be found near the pass line. If you roll any of the numbers listed there, then you win. If it is a 2 or a 12 then your winnings are double what they are if you roll any of the other numbers. After one roll, you've either won or lost. The boxes on the left such as horn bet also feature lots of ways for you to gamble on the next roll. They all have a higher house edge than the other types of bets I've explained, and I won't bother to try to explain them further (I don't know most of them anyway).

If you want to know about any other types of bets, or want more information, consult the millions of pages on information available online.

4. Conclusion
It was very difficult to figure out how to play craps by watching people in the casino. Even when a dealer explained the basic rules, I still couldn't keep up with what was going on at all. My suggestion for anyone who wants to take some of this knowledge and turn it into an ability to play craps is to start with some software/computer game that has craps. The screen shot of the craps table is taken from me playing Hoyle Casino 2008 which I neither recommend or discourage you from playing as I have no idea if it's a good one or not, but it seems to be working for me.

If you have plans of going to casinos and don't know craps, then you should learn. It's the best* "player against house" game in the casino. *Best odds of winning


***
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
April 16 2009 19:53 GMT
#2
Craps is so fun omfg.
Moderator
Naib
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Hungary4843 Posts
April 16 2009 20:01 GMT
#3
Poker.
Complete the cycle!
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
April 16 2009 20:06 GMT
#4
"Give Me the Dice. And Give me Room"
"What's the matter Sky, are you scared?"
"You've seen me roll for a hundred G's. But I've got a lot more than Dough riding on this one"
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4336 Posts
April 16 2009 20:11 GMT
#5
Craps is probably the most fun I ever had at a Casino. I won quite a bit too.
So wait? I'm bad? =(
Xusneb
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada612 Posts
April 16 2009 20:11 GMT
#6
This is the true gambler's game Thanks for the guide!
If you want to be happy, be. - Leo Tolstoy
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
April 16 2009 20:25 GMT
#7
sweeeeeet thanks
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
tentaclemonster
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States118 Posts
April 16 2009 20:27 GMT
#8
any aspiring gambler's #1 website : http://wizardofodds.com/

it has a free to play craps game http://wizardofodds.com/play/craps/

Scorch
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Austria3371 Posts
April 16 2009 20:32 GMT
#9
I really expected a beginner's guide on how to take a dump.
Kennelie
Profile Joined December 2007
United States2296 Posts
April 16 2009 21:08 GMT
#10
OMFG I BEEN PLAYING CRAPS SINCE I WAS 11!!!!! I haven't played much lately but I love the shit outta craps.

How many days of the week baby!
ya had ya shot kid!
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
April 16 2009 21:10 GMT
#11
I thought Blackjack was the only game you could beat the house in the long-term through proper strategy? Poker doesn't count since you're primarily playing against other players, and only "against the house" for the rake fees on pots you win.
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
Kennelie
Profile Joined December 2007
United States2296 Posts
April 16 2009 21:11 GMT
#12
On April 17 2009 05:32 Scorch wrote:
I really expected a beginner's guide on how to take a dump.


LOL No. Craps is funner then Poker imo.
ya had ya shot kid!
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
April 16 2009 22:14 GMT
#13
chance games suck t.t a "noob" can always beat you
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-16 22:15:26
April 16 2009 22:14 GMT
#14
On April 17 2009 06:10 EscPlan9 wrote:
I thought Blackjack was the only game you could beat the house in the long-term through proper strategy? Poker doesn't count since you're primarily playing against other players, and only "against the house" for the rake fees on pots you win.

I had never heard that about blackjack... can anyone confirm this?
On April 17 2009 07:14 EsX_Raptor wrote:
chance games suck t.t a "noob" can always beat you

In a casino you never play craps against noobs... in case you were wondering. Even if noobs come to your table they don't affect your winnings XD
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-16 22:18:49
April 16 2009 22:14 GMT
#15
craps is the best game

I had never heard that about blackjack... can anyone confirm this?


Blackjack "proper strategy" gives the house typically a .5-1% edge (depending on ruleset) and craps has several bets with better odds.

With any number of counting/tracking/sequencing/etc/etc techniques you can flip that I guess but the hours you would have to put in combined with the chance of actually pulling it off in the modern era, craps is still probably a better bet
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-16 23:18:40
April 16 2009 23:17 GMT
#16
On April 17 2009 07:14 heyoka wrote:
craps is the best game

Show nested quote +
I had never heard that about blackjack... can anyone confirm this?


Blackjack "proper strategy" gives the house typically a .5-1% edge (depending on ruleset) and craps has several bets with better odds.

With any number of counting/tracking/sequencing/etc/etc techniques you can flip that I guess but the hours you would have to put in combined with the chance of actually pulling it off in the modern era, craps is still probably a better bet

Yeah, you have the potential to get an edge playing blackjack, but it's nearly impossible. I tried and soon gave up when I realized how impractical it is. At my local casino they're CONSTANTLY reshuffling the shoe, so even the best systems in the world couldn't get you an edge. Most places are like this. So you have to A) find a casino which deals a large ammount of a shoe before shuffling (and preferably one which uses less decks in their shoes), B) build up a huuuuuge bankroll so you can afford to gamble with a 1%-ish edge without going broke, C) put in the time and effort to get good at counting cards and then put it into practise with distractions abounding (although some systems are really simple, tbh), and D) hope you don't get caught, which you almost certianly will. Hope by that time you've made enough money to make all your hard work worth it.
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
April 16 2009 23:17 GMT
#17
I don't play craps, but one question: does anyone call it shits?
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-16 23:59:00
April 16 2009 23:58 GMT
#18
On April 17 2009 08:17 Grobyc wrote:
I don't play craps, but one question: does anyone call it shits?

No; five year olds aren't allowed to gable so they don't really know from craps...
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
SlayerS_`HackeR`
Profile Joined November 2008
United States190 Posts
April 17 2009 02:09 GMT
#19
I will go ElkY
- i pwn n00bs -
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
April 17 2009 02:10 GMT
#20
On April 17 2009 11:09 SlayerS_`HackeR` wrote:
I will go ElkY

Er can you explain this?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
April 17 2009 04:30 GMT
#21
On April 17 2009 07:14 micronesia wrote:
In a casino you never play craps against noobs... in case you were wondering. Even if noobs come to your table they don't affect your winnings XD

you serious? then i might give this game a try
Oystein
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Norway1602 Posts
April 17 2009 04:57 GMT
#22
Hot throwing streaks in Vegas on a packed table is soooooooo cool!
Craps is so fun, but oh so expensive At least they comp you a free room for playing it
God Hates a Coward
Durak
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada3684 Posts
April 17 2009 05:08 GMT
#23
I've wanted to learn how to play Craps but I've been too lazy. Thanks a lot for the guide.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
April 17 2009 17:12 GMT
#24
On April 17 2009 13:30 EsX_Raptor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 07:14 micronesia wrote:
In a casino you never play craps against noobs... in case you were wondering. Even if noobs come to your table they don't affect your winnings XD

you serious? then i might give this game a try

Most table games are vs the dealer. The other players are just playing at the same time as you.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Kennelie
Profile Joined December 2007
United States2296 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 17:22:08
April 17 2009 17:21 GMT
#25
On April 17 2009 14:08 Durak wrote:
I've wanted to learn how to play Craps but I've been too lazy. Thanks a lot for the guide.


Actually once you read on how to play, you will realize how easy it is.

Edit: And fun as well.
ya had ya shot kid!
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
April 19 2009 07:07 GMT
#26
I see no one is jumping on my "Guys and Dolls" reference
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
April 19 2009 17:37 GMT
#27
On April 19 2009 16:07 cgrinker wrote:
I see no one is jumping on my "Guys and Dolls" reference

Maybe if you had said "longest established permanent floating crap game in New York" or something like that :p
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
hooktits
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States972 Posts
April 21 2009 17:42 GMT
#28
YO elevin!! (i love craps)
Hooktits of Tits gaming @hooktits twit
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
April 21 2009 18:08 GMT
#29
It took me so long to realize that my casino software was saying 'yo' because it means 11 haha.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
April 24 2009 21:06 GMT
#30
On April 17 2009 07:14 heyoka wrote:
With any number of counting/tracking/sequencing/etc/etc techniques you can flip that I guess but the hours you would have to put in combined with the chance of actually pulling it off in the modern era, craps is still probably a better bet

Your odds in craps are... crap. Compared to Blackjack, at least. You're even better off playing Roulette than you are playing playing craps.

Me? I play the stockmarket. Much better odds there
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
April 24 2009 21:39 GMT
#31
On April 25 2009 06:06 Zato-1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 07:14 heyoka wrote:
With any number of counting/tracking/sequencing/etc/etc techniques you can flip that I guess but the hours you would have to put in combined with the chance of actually pulling it off in the modern era, craps is still probably a better bet

Your odds in craps are... crap. Compared to Blackjack, at least. You're even better off playing Roulette than you are playing playing craps.
Er this is completely wrong.

The house advantage in roulette is nearly 5% whereas pass line bets and odds bets combine to less than 1%.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-25 04:24:51
April 25 2009 04:23 GMT
#32
On April 25 2009 06:39 micronesia wrote:
The house advantage in roulette is nearly 5% whereas pass line bets and odds bets combine to less than 1%.

House advantage in roulette is less than 3%, unless you're playing the crappy version with 38 pockets on the wheel.

I'll agree that some bets in craps have better odds than that after looking it up, but still not as good as blackjack.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
April 25 2009 12:50 GMT
#33
Craps - A Beginner's Guide:

Don't play it.
why so 진지해?
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
April 25 2009 12:52 GMT
#34
Craps - An Expert's Guide:

Don't play it.
why so 진지해?
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14893 Posts
April 25 2009 14:10 GMT
#35
hahaha
the problem with craps is that even with a 5 dollar pass or come bet, in order to reduce the house edge to something managable you have to put up $15, $20, $25 dollars on your odds bets and your money can go fast
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
April 25 2009 15:56 GMT
#36
On April 25 2009 23:10 KOFgokuon wrote:
hahaha
the problem with craps is that even with a 5 dollar pass or come bet, in order to reduce the house edge to something managable you have to put up $15, $20, $25 dollars on your odds bets and your money can go fast

Yeah definitely true. You need a lot of money to play craps unfortunately. If only there was a similar version which allowed for smaller amounts of money in a casino.

Getting the odds bets the come bets right so you can pay 6 to 5 and 3 to 2 also limits how little you can bet :-(
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
April 26 2009 03:37 GMT
#37
Just for fun on the whole blackjack thing (yes, I'm coming into the discussion late).

If you play blackjack properly with no card counting, the advantage that the house gets is <1% (from my own memory, so that one with a grain of salt).

From wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackjack ), you get these odds depending on the number of decks

Number of Decks House Advantage
Single deck 0.04%
Double deck 0.42%
Four decks 0.61%
Six decks 0.67%
Eight decks 0.70%

It's not cited on wikipedia, so I'm not entirely sure where they came up with those numbers. I'm guessing that those are strict probabilities following the best strategy with no card counting.

If you're actually planning on card counting, you can beat the house every single time. However, it's fairly easy for the casino's to spot if you're going to do it on your own.

The basic principle behind card counting is that the more high cards that are left in the "shoe", the better your odds are. so, for example and simplicity, the dealer starts out with a 6 deck shoe (for example) and doesn't shuffle at all. If many of the low cards are burned through the deck in the first 5 decks, and you know that the last 100 or 50 of the cards left in the shoe are all high cards, your chances of beating the house (having the house bust) are extremely high. To a first approximation, you could choose to count only the number of face cards that have passed, and then if your odds are good at the end of the shoe, start betting a ton of money. The problem is that the casino can look at the history of your betting, the history of the cards that have been played, and figure it out pretty easily.

PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14893 Posts
April 26 2009 03:42 GMT
#38
There are other rules that influence the odds a lot, like blackjack paying 6-5, surrender allowed, dealer stays on soft 17, that sort of thing
lazymej
Profile Joined February 2006
Canada269 Posts
April 27 2009 06:09 GMT
#39
On April 26 2009 12:37 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Just for fun on the whole blackjack thing (yes, I'm coming into the discussion late).

If you play blackjack properly with no card counting, the advantage that the house gets is <1% (from my own memory, so that one with a grain of salt).

From wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackjack ), you get these odds depending on the number of decks

Number of Decks House Advantage
Single deck 0.04%
Double deck 0.42%
Four decks 0.61%
Six decks 0.67%
Eight decks 0.70%

It's not cited on wikipedia, so I'm not entirely sure where they came up with those numbers. I'm guessing that those are strict probabilities following the best strategy with no card counting.

If you're actually planning on card counting, you can beat the house every single time. However, it's fairly easy for the casino's to spot if you're going to do it on your own.

The basic principle behind card counting is that the more high cards that are left in the "shoe", the better your odds are. so, for example and simplicity, the dealer starts out with a 6 deck shoe (for example) and doesn't shuffle at all. If many of the low cards are burned through the deck in the first 5 decks, and you know that the last 100 or 50 of the cards left in the shoe are all high cards, your chances of beating the house (having the house bust) are extremely high. To a first approximation, you could choose to count only the number of face cards that have passed, and then if your odds are good at the end of the shoe, start betting a ton of money. The problem is that the casino can look at the history of your betting, the history of the cards that have been played, and figure it out pretty easily.



So what happens if they suspect you're counting cards. Do they take you to the back room and beat you up like in the movie 21?
^_~
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
April 27 2009 06:13 GMT
#40
On April 27 2009 15:09 lazymej wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2009 12:37 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Just for fun on the whole blackjack thing (yes, I'm coming into the discussion late).

If you play blackjack properly with no card counting, the advantage that the house gets is <1% (from my own memory, so that one with a grain of salt).

From wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackjack ), you get these odds depending on the number of decks

Number of Decks House Advantage
Single deck 0.04%
Double deck 0.42%
Four decks 0.61%
Six decks 0.67%
Eight decks 0.70%

It's not cited on wikipedia, so I'm not entirely sure where they came up with those numbers. I'm guessing that those are strict probabilities following the best strategy with no card counting.

If you're actually planning on card counting, you can beat the house every single time. However, it's fairly easy for the casino's to spot if you're going to do it on your own.

The basic principle behind card counting is that the more high cards that are left in the "shoe", the better your odds are. so, for example and simplicity, the dealer starts out with a 6 deck shoe (for example) and doesn't shuffle at all. If many of the low cards are burned through the deck in the first 5 decks, and you know that the last 100 or 50 of the cards left in the shoe are all high cards, your chances of beating the house (having the house bust) are extremely high. To a first approximation, you could choose to count only the number of face cards that have passed, and then if your odds are good at the end of the shoe, start betting a ton of money. The problem is that the casino can look at the history of your betting, the history of the cards that have been played, and figure it out pretty easily.



So what happens if they suspect you're counting cards. Do they take you to the back room and beat you up like in the movie 21?

lol

Yeah they just kick you out :o
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
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