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Starcraft: A Turn-based Strategy Game

Blogs > StRyKeR
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StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-16 04:05:13
April 15 2009 23:30 GMT
#1
Recently, I've been looking at Starcraft through a different lens. What I mean is that if you take out the micro component of Starcraft, it becomes a turn-based game.

Zerg player opens with a 12-hatch.
Terran player opens with 9-supply 10-rax.
Terran responds to Zerg player with fast cc.
Zerg player builds 3rd hatch, also starts Extractor.

It's like both players respond to each other turn by turn. The approximation is not completely accurate by any means. Neither player has to wait for the other player before making his turn. Also, a player is not limited to performing one act per turn.

However, with this perspective, I found the game to be more about psychology and strategy than micro and mechanics. It's nothing novel or groundbreaking. It's just a change in perspective.

But it's allowed me to finally break the C+ barrier and enter into the B- world.

I used to focus mainly on my micro. I made custom maps so I could practice muta micro. Three Terran bases on Python with turrets all over. I'd have to destroy all of them with only mutas before they built enough to run me over. I focused on ling micro and getting my timings exactly right. Soon, I had mastered the 3-hatch spire build. I would blindly go 12-hatch 11-pool 14-hatch and tech to lair. I'd build drones until 27 and build a couple sunks or lings. My final goal was to get Hive and then use my economic advantage to seal the game with Ultralisks and Defilers.

It was so formulaic and repetitive that I could play without thinking. 12-hatch 11-pool 14-hatch. Micro mutas. Go to Hive. Get Defilers. Get Ultras. Expand. Defilers. Expand. Ultras.

My average APM soon broke 250 and I was regularly hitting 270 in ZvT. But I was still losing games. I'd do 3-hatch mutas but they'd have wildly varying returns. Through D+, C-, and C, I'd easily win with my formulaic muta->lurker->hive. But by C+, I would lose some games and I couldn't find out why I was losing. I thought, 'I'll just have to work on my micro a bit more.'

And I did. My muta micro improved by a significant factor and I could end many games at C+ before Lurkers. The beauty of Starcraft is how important mechanics are. But I still kept losing. I finally realized that I needed to actually THINK during games. Yes. Starcraft isn't just a formula. It's like chess and go. I had to THINK about different strategic options instead of just blindly following the 3-hatch build.

That's where the turn-based perspective helped. I looked at it as a tennis match. I had to react the best way I could depending on the other person's discrete moves. He opened 8-supply? Well, then his barracks will be early so I'll go 12-hatch 11-pool. He opened 9-supply? Well, I will go 12-hatch 13-pool. I soon developed a sense to know exactly if he 8-supply'ed or 9-supply'ed. I found that when my drone scout found the barracks being built and it was only half done when my 12-hatch was about to begin, then it was a 9-supply. I'd take advantage of this to the fullest, often without the opponent even knowing that this happened.

I started thinking a lot more in these terms, in terms of responses to the other player's strategies instead of obstinately following my own. It was about taking turns and whoever fails to respond properly loses the game.

I remember a long time ago when I opened my typical muta opening and got run over immediately by a sunk bust. I remember thinking, 'I needed better muta micro.' How naive. It was my lack of a proper response that lost me the game, not my micro.

More recently, I scouted a 4 barrack build by the time my spire was done. I immediately canceled my expo hatchery and started a few sunks at my nat. My lurkers would never had made it in time to defend my expo against his marine medic mass. However, I also knew that there was a weakness to his early 4 barrack move. Upgrades, tanks, and vessels would be slightly late. Therefore, my late expo wasn't as big of a disadvantage so I didn't have to resort to an all-in and just play safe from there.

These are the kind of strategic thoughts that I have, thinking about the game as a turn-based game. Because I worked so much on mechanics up until now, the execution of my response comes second nature to me. It's just the responses themselves I have to improve. I'm glad that I started with mechanics and am now working on improving strategy, although I can see someone working it the other way around.

There's definitely something to be said about strategic masterminds like Boxer and Savior. It's something that's not evident because it's not flashy. Two marines killing a lurker; two tanks with a dropship killing 4 dragoons. A real game is rarely won solely by these flashy tricks. These tricks only confirm the strategic advantage already gained by the player doing them.

Now I actually think in my games. Strategic responses to the other player's moves. No two games I play are the same anymore. I slide in an extra drone before my pool if I can get away with it. Even a 12-hatch 14-pool is possible. Little variations due to what I perceive to be a correct response to the other player's move.

Jaedong seems to be especially good at countering someone's style. His game flows like water; against Fantasy's mech build, he kept going 2-hatch. Against a marine+med strategy, he goes 3-hatch mutas. Against Zergs... well, we know how Jaedong does against Zerg. He once said that he doesn't really practice specific openings vs. Zerg, that he just kind of wings it depending on the opponent. I believe that is the biggest difference between him and other Zergs. Other Zergs prepare specific builds while he goes into the game and counters the strategy on the fly. His APM and mechanics make his executions perfect.

EDIT: Some sample build orders you can play around with depending on the opponent's card.

I realized my old, "by the book" 9 mutas hatched at 7:15. After some tweaking, I got 6:55. After my change in perspective and realization that there are many things I can take advantage of, I can hit 6:40. The seconds matter because 20 seconds is the difference between 10marine2medic and 15marine4medic. You want to get mutas before they can attack your sunks. If your mutas are late, you're forced to build sunks.

12-hatch 11-pool with extractor started when third hatchery = 6:40
(very unsafe econ though, if terran pulls some gimmick your eco will be terrible due to extra sunks) --- a safe opening against everything

12-hatch 13-pool 14-hatch with extractor started with third hatch = 6:40
(pretty safe econ, basically a richer version of above) --- a safe opening against 9-supply 1rax, or a terran you KNOW to be un-aggressive and won't bunker rush you

12-hatch 11-pool 14-hatch 16-gas = 6:55
(safe econ, but slower than above. basically a slower version of above. the "textbook" opening I learned a long time ago) --- safe opening against everything

12-hatch 13-hatch 15-pool with extractor started with pool = 6:40
(monstrous econ, but obviously dangerous in the beginning due to pool after 3 hatch) --- dangerous against anything other than 14cc

As you can see there are advantages and disadvantages to each build. Depending on the card that the terran plays, I can utilize what I want. I think it's important to know the strengths and weaknesses of the opening you use. For the ones that have super rich econ, I often build a fourth hatchery in my main before spire finishes (because I know I'll have 1200 minerals by the time I have mutas). For the ones that have weak econ, I know that every sunk delays my timing by a huge factor. So I use the card that I believe is the best for me.

***
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
April 15 2009 23:38 GMT
#2
Cool writeup, I'm happy that you were able to break your barrier!
Murkyith14
Profile Joined January 2008
United States111 Posts
April 15 2009 23:47 GMT
#3
I think it's a good way to think about it man. Good read
deL
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Australia5540 Posts
April 15 2009 23:47 GMT
#4
Meh, all a bit obvious and I don't like simplifying it to a turn-based game.

GW improving though I guess.
Gaming videos for fun ~ http://www.youtube.com/user/WijLopenLos
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
April 16 2009 00:03 GMT
#5
nice read
andiCR
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2273 Posts
April 16 2009 00:06 GMT
#6
nice write up. Love the fact you brought your game to another level
Nightmare1795 wrote: I played a guy in bronze who said he was Japanese. That was the only game I ever dropped a nuke, which was purely coincidental.
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
April 16 2009 00:28 GMT
#7
you guys just realized that?

i program and i surely would never be able to understand a complex problem if i looked at it the detailed way

always approach difficult shit (starcraft) abstractly, not just as a set of predefined rules (11 rax 14 depot, etc more like 1 rax fe zvt if 3 hat mutas turrets, etc)
OmgIRok
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Taiwan2699 Posts
April 16 2009 00:48 GMT
#8
OP sums up my playstyle -> responding appropriately with scouting <- but i'm like D-/D =[

I guess if I get my BOs and micro solid i can become C-? :D
"Wanna join my [combo] clan?" "We play turret d competitively"
prOxi.Beater
Profile Joined December 2008
Denmark626 Posts
April 16 2009 00:49 GMT
#9
Cool writeup and some nice insight into how another player views the game. Cool!
Nobody beats the Beater
d1v
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Sweden868 Posts
April 16 2009 00:59 GMT
#10
Very interesting insight. I too follow your pattern of improving, although I still am at the stage of learning my BOs perfectly. Might I ask how much time you put into learning these BOs and playing games to practise them (as in per day)?
Adams Æbler
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
April 16 2009 01:02 GMT
#11
Very nice writeup about a new way to think about the game.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-16 03:59:54
April 16 2009 03:59 GMT
#12
On April 16 2009 09:59 d1v wrote:
Very interesting insight. I too follow your pattern of improving, although I still am at the stage of learning my BOs perfectly. Might I ask how much time you put into learning these BOs and playing games to practise them (as in per day)?


I must have gone over a year just practicing 3-hatch, thinking that was the best build order possible. Possibly hundreds of games on BNet. Probably over a thousand, actually. But that's not to say that it takes 1000 games to get good. I just didn't realize what I was doing till then.

I didn't even scout back then, when I was just regurgitating the 3-hatch build. It actually isn't a very good one either. I used to always make 4 sunks "just in case" the terran made lots of marine+meds, which is a huge waste if he's not. Later I realized scouting can cut down my sunk count, but before I could focus on reacting, I focused tremendously just on my own build order.
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
April 16 2009 04:09 GMT
#13
Very in depth, nice write-up.
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
April 16 2009 05:23 GMT
#14
meh i just look at it cutting corners
not really turn based its just who can hold back and not commit the longest
usually game is decided when someone messes up not when someone does something clever
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
April 16 2009 05:36 GMT
#15
Interesting read.
Hello
w e l p
Profile Joined April 2009
United States45 Posts
April 16 2009 06:33 GMT
#16
All games on a PC are turn based because you have to wait for a CPU cycle before you can input another command. MIND BLOWN.
http://tinyurl.com/cwrt3z
Spenguin
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia3316 Posts
April 16 2009 07:40 GMT
#17
Awesome read, grats on breaking that barrier. Are you going to shoot for A now? Or work more on your mechanics and thinking.
< TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #46 > I came for the Brood War, I stayed for the people.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
April 16 2009 07:55 GMT
#18
it would be cool and .... didnt they have a SC board game?
NotJumperer
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States1371 Posts
April 16 2009 08:30 GMT
#19
--- Nuked ---
d1v
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Sweden868 Posts
April 16 2009 11:19 GMT
#20
I have another question for you, Stryker. Personally, I feel that TvZ is a very "scripted" MU, where there are clear rules and BOs without much deviation. Do you feel like ZvP is similar or is there more deviation?
Adams Æbler
Nytefish
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United Kingdom4282 Posts
April 16 2009 12:29 GMT
#21
I'm surprised you got to C+ without any reaction play at all.

I mean it seems pretty obvious you should think in this way, that's why I don't know build orders past my first 4 buildings.
No I'm never serious.
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