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I think this story resonates with many of us. In fact, i'm quite curious if there is anyone out there who DIDN'T try the whole "i wish for <insert item/event of choice ie: girlfriend/THATtoy/sc2/endiraqwar/triceratops skull shield >, if that comes true tomorrow i'll believe in god!" thing.
I know when I first came in contact with the idea of God, i certainly did. By now, I've already forgotten what I had wish for at that time, but I do remember my wish being granted at some point. Perhaps the difference is that I didn't stop at the first wish. I continued to wish for other things. Sometimes it was selfish (magic cards!), sometimes it was selfless (world peace!). One thing was sure tho, likelihood of my wish being granted in the near future is positively correlated with how easy it is to achieve.
I learned that if i wished mom would give me lemon tea tomorrow instead of orange juice, (fuck you, i never thought to look in the fridge when i was young okay?) my chances of getting it was far higher than wishing for that upperclass asshole to be expelled the next day (much less world peace). Eventually, somewhere between reaching first base with fractions and probability, and going all the way with psychology, my belief in skyghosts vanished.
I just find it interesting how OP's starting spot for belief in God is also mine for the opposite.
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On March 29 2009 18:18 micronesia wrote:
Samurai- if your goal is to piss people off, you'll do a good job with that attitude. If your goal is to reduce the number of 'believers' in this world then you aren't contributing towards your goal. I have 0 faith in anything supernatural but I've learned there's no percentage in being mean towards believers.
I am just frustrated, because i ve seen too many threads like this lately.. What i wrote is what i think of them.. Anytime i tried to talk to a believer, its like talking to a brick wall.. So it doesnt matter what i say, they will believe in a talking snake, joseph survived in a whale for 3 days, earth is 5000 years old etc...
I tried to be constructive, i tried to be nice, etc etc but as i said, its like talking to a brick wall.. So it doesnt matter how i talk..
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United States24740 Posts
On March 29 2009 18:30 Samurai- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2009 18:18 micronesia wrote:
Samurai- if your goal is to piss people off, you'll do a good job with that attitude. If your goal is to reduce the number of 'believers' in this world then you aren't contributing towards your goal. I have 0 faith in anything supernatural but I've learned there's no percentage in being mean towards believers. I am just frustrated, because i ve seen too many threads like this lately.. What i wrote is what i think of them.. Anytime i tried to talk to a believer, its like talking to a brick wall.. So it doesnt matter what i say, they will believe in a talking snake, joseph survived in a whale for 3 days, earth is 5000 years old etc... I tried to be constructive, i tried to be nice, etc etc but as i said, its like talking to a brick wall.. So it doesnt matter how i talk..
I don't think you should give up. It's possible to make the world more like the way you want it to be.
Even so, you should try to take out your frustration in a way that doesn't add fuel to the fire as it makes it harder for all the other nonbelievers who want to earn some credence with the believers since we haven't given up.
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On March 29 2009 18:30 Samurai- wrote:
I am just frustrated, because i ve seen too many threads like this lately.. What i wrote is what i think of them.. Anytime i tried to talk to a believer, its like talking to a brick wall.. So it doesnt matter what i say, they will believe in a talking snake, joseph survived in a whale for 3 days, earth is 5000 years old etc...
I tried to be constructive, i tried to be nice, etc etc but as i said, its like talking to a brick wall.. So it doesnt matter how i talk..
But the key is to realize that people passing by as you talk to the wall are also listening. In the battle against religion, the solid walls may not sway, but it is the passing agnostic who will consider your words the most. It is for these people have to talk/write with proper grammar/spelling/prose, It is for these people that you make good arguments and back them up with evidence. And most importantly, it is for these people that you must remain positive. Nobody likes to side with someone who is negative and bitter (not saying you are).
If you want others to join the wall-talking, you have to show that wall-talking is fun. Nobody pays attention to the dirty, grumpy, poor, hobos muttering to the walls, but people will stop and listen if you dress nicely, stand proud, smile, and give a speech. Of course, it also helps if you have a big funky hat and a staff.
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On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote:
Randomly, from the right, I hear "Hey GrayArea." I didn't look at her, nor did I say anything or make any change in my expression. Again I hear, "Hey GrayArea, did you really have an A in Hilmerson?"
I thought this part was hilarious.
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I think the logic is really simple. We as Christians can't ever convince the world that God exists. We can't explain how faith works and we can't explain how God works. These discussions(flamewars) have been going on for so, so long, probably even before the internet ever existed.
But that's fine. I accept as a Christian that everyone has different beliefs, be it being an atheist and what not. We're just here to merely proclaim. If you're here probing around finding convincing answers to God's existence and the system of faith, then you'd never ever find it because that's just not the way it works. Faith is a personal event that can only happen between you and God. No one can convince you.
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Until someone can prove or disprove the existence of a higher power to the point where even the most staunch atheist/fundie changes their views, I refuse to participate in these needless circlejerk discussions outside of pointing out that faith can empower a person to change their life, and make otherwise decent people slaughter each other in the names of their beliefs. How long before we have fundies killing atheists, or vice versa? How long before both sides learn to respect each other?
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Oh crap, how did i miss this thread.. *grabs a drink*
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United States24740 Posts
On March 29 2009 19:29 Mada_Jiang wrote:
Hi GreyArea
Awesome post. Thanks so much for sharing your personal experience with the rest of TL. I had an experience exactly the same as yours and when you talk about how you pray and feel the warmth that comes from fellowship with God, I know exactly what you are talking about.
I really commend you on being able to share this on TL which is absolutely jam packed full of people who read what others share, and then take the time and effort to make aggressive degrading posts that serves absolutely no purpose but to give them a temporary boost of their ego or just an attempt to show what little knowledge they have. I hope you are not discouraged by these people's attempts and continue to share your experiences because it is an encouragement to me and i am sure it is the same to others on TL.
I pray that God will continue to reveal more of him self to you and that you will grow in what God has planned for you.
A message to all those who feel the need to come on TL, open up someone's blog, read it, and then post derogatory, negative and sarcastic remarks that you would never ever say to someone in real life, I encourage you to take a moment and ask your self, WHY am I posting? Am I trying to share something with others that will benefit them? Am I asking a question that will get an answer to information that will make a wiser person? Am I sharing something to be a blessing to others and encourage others? Or am I positing because I just felt a sudden urge to be spiteful because of some anger that has made its way from my heart to my mouth. Then ask your self why are you angry and why do you feel the need to be aggressive to others? What purpose does it serve? If you are are writing just to put down others, then ask your self, what pain are you carrying in your life?
If you are angry because of a bad experience you have had in your life, it will not have peace by belittling others, winning an argument, or unloading your angry on others. You might be able to temporarily satisfy your ego, but emptiness will follow.
Peace be with you Teamliquid.
I want to point something out. If you go on the internet and put your neck out for pretty much anything, there will be people who 'read it, and then post derogatory, negative and sarcastic remakrs that you would never ever say to someone in real life.' Do you expect people here to change their habits specifically for posts about religious faith?
I'm not saying being an asshole on the internet is necessarily okay, but you aren't special in that regard. This is just one of several topics that tend to get more heated.
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Very interesting.I myself try not to go into religion,because for some reason it is too sensitive for some people.My belief is that,if they want to believe in something that is fine,but dissing each others' beliefs is wrong,whether the trouble starter be an atheist or someone else,doesn't matter.I myself am an atheist,because I have been brainwashed for years by too much science and logic.This brings to an interesting question:Without parental or peer pressuring guide,would you suddenly start believing in an higher power yourself,or has it still to do with the surrounding atmosphere.Maybe if I hadn't read so many books or seen so many documentaries or read so many articles about science and logic,I wouldn't be an atheist?
Don't get me too wrong,I still believe in spiritual energies and life after death.I've researched so much about paranormal stuff and spirits and ghosts,seen so many videos and pictures and heard EVPs (google it, if you don't know what it is),but then again,it's the internet,and so much stuff is fake.Still,after watching the videos of a YouTube user 'madhobbit',I suddenly felt so much clear evidence that wasn't fake.I researched the Frank's Boxes and listened to the material recorded.It baffled and shocked me, and made me a little happy, because now I believe in life after death more.Still, the spirits there also say of Heaven and happiness and relief,does it mean there is a God?They don't like to say.Sorry I have to go now,in a hurry,even though I would like to add more. Post your thoughts.
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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On March 29 2009 18:18 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2009 15:20 inReacH wrote:
Ignorant.. like the word ignore.. like you're ignoring everything that science and math have proven over and over and over for the last X centuries.. YOU ARE IGNORING IT you should stop this idiot do you fucking think that religious people ignore math and science? do you fucking know how many religious scientists there are? where the fuck does religion deny these? I am coming from a damn christian technical university asshole
Looks like that university has really made you Christ-like!
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Hey it only took till page 4 for someone to post a video of richard dawkins! Nice work everyone!
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On March 29 2009 20:34 KrAzYfoOL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2009 18:18 freelander wrote:On March 29 2009 15:20 inReacH wrote:
Ignorant.. like the word ignore.. like you're ignoring everything that science and math have proven over and over and over for the last X centuries.. YOU ARE IGNORING IT you should stop this idiot do you fucking think that religious people ignore math and science? do you fucking know how many religious scientists there are? where the fuck does religion deny these? I am coming from a damn christian technical university asshole Looks like that university has really made you Christ-like!
i just can't bear these stupid arguments what you bring there
and I am not christian myself
way to go mindlessly bash religious people as many ways as you can
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That time of month ey freelander 
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On March 29 2009 19:31 JMave wrote:
I think the logic is really simple. We as Christians can't ever convince the world that God exists. We can't explain how faith works and we can't explain how God works. These discussions(flamewars) have been going on for so, so long, probably even before the internet ever existed.
But that's fine. I accept as a Christian that everyone has different beliefs, be it being an atheist and what not. We're just here to merely proclaim. If you're here probing around finding convincing answers to God's existence and the system of faith, then you'd never ever find it because that's just not the way it works. Faith is a personal event that can only happen between you and God. No one can convince you.
LOL
you said how discussions have been going on for so, so long, and then you say probably even before the internet ever existed...
ROFL.. The world wide web was officially launched in 1993, but that is only part of the internet. The internet was officially launched in 1989, but its origins can be traced back to 1969.
if internet is so, so, SOOOOOOOOOO long ago, then what is 2000 years ago for you ? What do you think for 1950 years people were kissing each others? Religions have caused countless wars and are directly or indirectly responsible for the large majority of armed conflicts through history..
You say how you accept as a christian that everyone has different beliefs, i accept as well.. I could care less what a man next door beliefs are.. What is getting on my nerve recently is all those pathetic little stories that you call mirracles.. A girl said HEY to you, a fucking HEY.. What i cant understand is how can you believe in such lame stories.. Bible is a story.. Nothing more.. How did new testament missed a VIRGIN BIRTH in old testament.. How can you believe in a talking snake.. How can you believe earth is 5000 years old? How can you blindly ignore the problems on the earth, from war, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, there are so many questions that you simply ignore and say its god work.. You are close minded, and if there were not of all the ignorant, religious people who think they have all the answers, a world would be a much better place, instead we are held back because all you see is that little book of yours..
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There's nothing that you shouldn't do.
If you REALLY want to find god and REALLY want to test him, go do it.
But you can't do it out of boredom or something. Not because it's not allowed, but because it simply wont work if you're not fully true and pure about your intention.
EDIT:
P.S.
To all of you who 'feel' there's something more, but don't buy the conservative religious doctrines, go read some stuff on non-dualism. That's what really struck a chord with me, helped my mind come to peace.
Now Christianity sounds much more true because I think I can filter out the human part of it.
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Ah.. So thats it.. You need to learn how to filter.. You need to read the bible, and filter all the nonsense bullshit ( Like the whole book) to really grasp the human part of it..
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On March 29 2009 15:01 koreasilver wrote:
I respect people's beliefs, but your story is just fucking stupid.
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EPT
