On March 29 2009 15:20 inReacH wrote: Ignorant.. like the word ignore.. like you're ignoring everything that science and math have proven over and over and over for the last X centuries.. YOU ARE IGNORING IT
Science and math have destroyed some religious beliefs, but science has not disproved the existence of a god nor have the religious proven the existence of a god.
This is why you are ignorant.
just because something cannot be proven, does not in any way shape or form, dictate that the probability of it being proven is anywhere near 50% so using your train of thought, with this correction, and the knowledge that we are all ignorant to some degree, he has a 10% chance of being ignorant, and you have a 90% chance.
not that i disagree with clinging to 10% hey to quote a fellow TLer 1) You're pragmatic - 0.00001% chance is better than nothing! but it still makes him that much more realistic than you
How can there even be numbers on something that has no real answer to it? Because of the nature of the question, people will argue about it with no end. Be faithful to your belief or disbelief with good reason and leave it at that.
the numbers were hypothetical, though i do agree with you on the live and let live aspect, i am truly appalled at not teaching Darwinism because some people believe in creationism, and i am appalled that religious people believe that homosexuals are damned to hellfire.
among other things of course but i am sure you see my point.
if you believe in god and in no way contribute to the regression of humanity( I.E. supporting a pope who will go to Africa, let's say Angola where he was last week, and propagate the idea that using a condom will damn you to hellfire, and you should accept all children as divine blessings, whilst knowing that the infant mortality rate in Angola is 18% and at least 2% of your audience is infected with HIV/aids.) then i will have no problem with you, or your religious beliefs and i am grateful you found purpose in life, and will live it well.
EDIT, by you in the last paragraph i am referring to everyone, you is used in general, in the rest of the post it is referring directly to koreasilver
On March 29 2009 15:20 inReacH wrote: Ignorant.. like the word ignore.. like you're ignoring everything that science and math have proven over and over and over for the last X centuries.. YOU ARE IGNORING IT
Science and math have destroyed some religious beliefs, but science has not disproved the existence of a god nor have the religious proven the existence of a god.
This is why you are ignorant.
just because something cannot be proven, does not in any way shape or form, dictate that the probability of it being proven is anywhere near 50% so using your train of thought, with this correction, and the knowledge that we are all ignorant to some degree, he has a 10% chance of being ignorant, and you have a 90% chance.
not that i disagree with clinging to 10% hey to quote a fellow TLer 1) You're pragmatic - 0.00001% chance is better than nothing! but it still makes him that much more realistic than you
How can there even be numbers on something that has no real answer to it? Because of the nature of the question, people will argue about it with no end. Be faithful to your belief or disbelief with good reason and leave it at that.
the numbers were hypothetical, though i do agree with you on the live and let live aspect, i am truly appalled at not teaching Darwinism because some people believe in creationism, and i am appalled that religious people believe that homosexuals are damned to hellfire.
among other things of course but i am sure you see my point.
if you believe in god and in no way contribute to the regression of humanity( I.E. supporting a pope who will go to Africa, let's say Angola where he was last week, and propagate the idea that using a condom will damn you to hellfire, and you should accept all children as divine blessings, whilst knowing that the infant mortality rate in Angola is 18% and at least 2% of your audience is infected with HIV/aids.) then i will have no problem with you, or your religious beliefs and i am grateful you found purpose in life, and will live it well.
Creationism is comedic. The original Darwinist theory is outdated now, from what I've read.
The funny thing about all this is that the theory of evolution does not contradict Christian beliefs, or well, at least not the Catholic one as Catholics now take Genesis figuratively, not literally. John Paul II accepted the theory of evolution from what I remember as well.
The homophobia that is latent in the Abrahamic religions is terrible and senseless, but it's pretty difficult to change for the better as homophobia is hard-coded straight in biblical texts; eh, fuckit.
There's tons of problems in the Abrahamic religions that don't even require science in order to see clearly. There's a lot of questionable moral issues, inequality, corruption, theological problems, etc.
On March 29 2009 15:20 inReacH wrote: Ignorant.. like the word ignore.. like you're ignoring everything that science and math have proven over and over and over for the last X centuries.. YOU ARE IGNORING IT
Science and math have destroyed some religious beliefs, but science has not disproved the existence of a god nor have the religious proven the existence of a god.
This is why you are ignorant.
just because something cannot be proven, does not in any way shape or form, dictate that the probability of it being proven is anywhere near 50% so using your train of thought, with this correction, and the knowledge that we are all ignorant to some degree, he has a 10% chance of being ignorant, and you have a 90% chance.
not that i disagree with clinging to 10% hey to quote a fellow TLer 1) You're pragmatic - 0.00001% chance is better than nothing! but it still makes him that much more realistic than you
How can there even be numbers on something that has no real answer to it? Because of the nature of the question, people will argue about it with no end. Be faithful to your belief or disbelief with good reason and leave it at that.
the numbers were hypothetical, though i do agree with you on the live and let live aspect, i am truly appalled at not teaching Darwinism because some people believe in creationism, and i am appalled that religious people believe that homosexuals are damned to hellfire.
among other things of course but i am sure you see my point.
if you believe in god and in no way contribute to the regression of humanity( I.E. supporting a pope who will go to Africa, let's say Angola where he was last week, and propagate the idea that using a condom will damn you to hellfire, and you should accept all children as divine blessings, whilst knowing that the infant mortality rate in Angola is 18% and at least 2% of your audience is infected with HIV/aids.) then i will have no problem with you, or your religious beliefs and i am grateful you found purpose in life, and will live it well.
Creationism is comedic. The original Darwinist theory is outdated now, from what I've read.
The funny thing about all this is that the theory of evolution does not contradict Christian beliefs, or well, at least not the Catholic one as Catholics now take Genesis figuratively, not literally. John Paul II accepted the theory of evolution from what I remember as well.
The homophobia that is latent in the Abrahamic religions is terrible and senseless, but it's pretty difficult to change for the better as homophobia is hard-coded straight in biblical texts; eh, fuckit.
There's tons of problems in the Abrahamic religions that don't even require science in order to see clearly. There's a lot of questionable moral issues, inequality, corruption, theological problems, etc.
meh neo-Darwinism
agreed although they should accept the condom as well, and not just Darwin
and the flame war comes to a close with nothing changed but much said, hopefully someone learned something, and i certainly had a few good laughs, all in all not a bad thread ^ ^
The religious will never prove the existence of God. Science will never disprove the existence of God. It is fundamentally impossible to do either due to the nature of God.
The fact that we exist at all, that the universe exists, the fact that there is something as opposed to an infinite and eternal absence of anything is so mind-bogglingly incomprehensible that it would seem that something as vague, infinite and elusive as God is required to explain it. Who are we? Where do we come from? What is the meaning of life? How am I even sitting here asking these questions? How the fuck is all of this happening?
Don't you religious people find it a tad convenient that the answer to an unanswerable question is an unquestionable answer? God. You can't question it. It is what it is.
That being said, the entire universe is a paradox. Everything we have learnt about it so far tells us that something cannot come from nothing. It's impossible. And yet here we are! Existing! It would appear we defy the laws of existence merely by existing. Unless... The only possibility, no matter how far fetched it sounds, is that the universe always has, and always will exist. With that in mind the need for a creator is removed. Answering these questions with "God" only asks more questions... Who is God? Where did he come from? If God created the universe, who created God? These questions can only be answered with a load of old horse shit that we have made up ourselves, because we made God up ourselves. I think therefore I am, and if I exist, so does the universe I'm sitting in. From what we've seen of it, it sure as hell didn't just fucking appear out of nowhere. The only solution is the ultimate concept - infinity. That's the answer. Not God. I don't actually like it. The God solution is prettier. We all want to go to Heaven when we die. We all want to be resurrected and live on a paradise Earth where we all live happily ever after. That's why we made up God, because the only alternative to God is so difficult to comprehend and frankly isn't very appealing.
The funniest thing is that even if God does exist then we have made him up, coincidentally, all on our own completely separate from his existence. He has never manifested in reality, and never will. Anything we have ever written or said about him comes 100% from our imagination and from nothing we have ever heard or seen with our own eyes. All our opinions and beliefs about him, even if it's true he exists, came from our own heads.
The religious will never prove the existence of God. Science will never disprove the existence of God. It is fundamentally impossible to do either due to the nature of God.
We made God up. With zero proof. Simple as that. You can never prove otherwise.
Please do. I'm genuinely trying to figure things out. It's not pointless. I was a Jehovas Witness for the first 11 years of my life and I believed every word of it :D And it's not meant to be an "argument", that implies their can be some sort of counter-argument. I genuinely don't believe there is one, if there is do tell :O
On March 29 2009 13:06 GrayArea wrote: Some people say seeing is believing. In my case, hearing was believing. I will never forget this day in my entire life, it was the day God spoke to me.
I didn't mind the story, but don't start it off with 'God spoke to me'..... provocative and silly. God didn't speak to you. A 10th grade girl did. As best, God 'listened' to you which is very different.
Unless you left out the part about the burning bush teaching you pick-up lines.
I don't understand why half of you thrash the religious. Even if this kid found something on his own accord that you find to be naive, I don't see what the difference is between you slandering him and some Southern Baptist slandering you for not believing in Christ.
Literally, the radicalism is the same. Where the religious have their own dogma (that can't be proven, yes), you have the theories and proofs of science. The religious only need their dogma, though, and even if science refutes something (like say the theory of evolution), it READ: does not matter. Call it ignorance, but the majority of you lash out as the religious sometimes lash out at you.
You will not convince the religious to back down. The Religious will not convince you to back down.
So let the religious leave the scientists alone, and let the scientists leave the religious alone, because it's pointless.
This goes for a lot of things, really. Say, the guy who swears by Warcraft 3 instead of Starcraft. There are many of these people.
At this rate, what you are doing is cutting down someone's life style because it is "inferior" to yours. Simply put: It's a bigoted / narrow minded thing to do. (This works both ways)
Cutting down the original post for no reason other than to pretend human superiority is a level of ignorance that is simply wrong. Leave him alone. :-\
On March 29 2009 17:59 Elian wrote: I don't understand why half of you thrash the religious. Even if this kid found something on his own accord that you find to be naive, I don't see what the difference is between you slandering him and some Southern Baptist slandering you for not believing in Christ.
Literally, the radicalism is the same. Where the religious have their own dogma (that can't be proven, yes), you have the theories and proofs of science. The religious only need their dogma, though, and even if science refutes something (like say the theory of evolution), it READ: does not matter. Call it ignorance, but the majority of you lash out as the religious sometimes lash out at you.
You will not convince the religious to back down. The Religious will not convince you to back down.
So let the religious leave the scientists alone, and let the scientists leave the religious alone, because it's pointless.
This goes for a lot of things, really. Say, the guy who swears by Warcraft 3 instead of Starcraft. There are many of these people.
At this rate, what you are doing is cutting down someone's life style because it is "inferior" to yours. Simply put: It's a bigoted / narrow minded thing to do. (This works both ways)
Cutting down the original post for no reason other than to pretend human superiority is a level of ignorance that is simply wrong. Leave him alone. :-\
Good post.
I just want to point out that I usually don't see this as a symmetric situation. It would be wrong for me to go to where you and your friend hang out and talk about a religion and make fun of you for being 'dumb' or something like that. But that's not what usually happens (the people who would do that are idiots themselves!). Usually large groups of people who don't believe in any particular religion are engaged in lots of discussions (such as tl) which do not include their lack of belief/faith. All the sudden, a couple of people come along and start discussing religion. Maybe it is not to 'oppose' the nonreligious people... but it gives the nonreligious people a reason to assert their beliefs. Sometimes they go way too far I'll admit. But usually nonreligious people calling out faithful believers is the result of the actions of religious argumentation rather than the cause.
I also hope your bit about 'cutting down the original post...' wasn't pointed at me!
Pathetic... Wait.. This is beyond pathetic.. I dont have the words to describe it.. I mean, if there was a frog infront of you and she would turn to a beautiful princess, i would say you have a point, but sometimes people do the steps you cant do, because you are too pathetic.. And why would you loose desire for her after your prayed for something ? If god gave you something, would you throw it away?
This is catastrophy.. comming here, telling a lame fucking story so you can DISCUSS your pathetic believes, and you are beyond lame to not simply walk to a girl and say hi etc if you like her is simply pathetic..
Yes, i am frustrated, because this is just another lame GOD story.. I wished for things like please let it be sun, so i can drive with my motor bike, instead of this fucking rain, and the sun came out.. Because things like that HAPPEN..I didnt say hey it must be because of that invisible dude in the sky...
Ask him to get rid of War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and maybe he would actually do something good for this fucking planet and us instead of fucking us over and over again..
On March 29 2009 15:20 inReacH wrote: Ignorant.. like the word ignore.. like you're ignoring everything that science and math have proven over and over and over for the last X centuries.. YOU ARE IGNORING IT
you should stop this idiot do you fucking think that religious people ignore math and science?
do you fucking know how many religious scientists there are?
where the fuck does religion deny these?
I am coming from a damn christian technical university asshole
Samurai- if your goal is to piss people off, you'll do a good job with that attitude. If your goal is to reduce the number of 'believers' in this world then you aren't contributing towards your goal. I have 0 faith in anything supernatural but I've learned there's no percentage in being mean towards believers.
EPT
