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This a blog entry I've been thinking of for a long time. However, it's not sorted, it's just information I've been thinking for years.
First fact - Love etc.
WC3 loves SC, SC dislikes WC3.
Amongst the WC3 players and fans, there is a huge respect for SC even if most of them don't have a clue about the game, they all pretend to be former SC players, that they began playing RTS on Starcraft etc. Sometimes it's true, most of the time it's just said to sound like a "true" gamer.
Second fact - Hate etc.
When I joined TL, I had 3 years of WC3 in my backpack and thousands of laddergames. I was watching every replay etc. I felt like I could help some people here understanding what is so good about WC3 but I quickly realize that there is almost no way to communicate about WC3 in the SC community. I understand why, I understand some of the reasons, but when you get to know WC3, there are amazing things out there to watch, to play.
Third fact - Why are wc3 people fucking dumb ?
It's not a random rage fact, it's a fucking real fact. I'm 25 years old and I'm "old" in the WC3 community. Old in experience and old in age. The community is younger than the SC community but still, I can't explain why people are so stupid on WC3.
Try reading Bnet forums, try reading Sk-gaming forums, try reading wcreplays.com forums, you will NEVER EVER find in-depth guides like there is on TL. You will NEVER EVER find interesting discussions about a game like on TL.
Seriously, the reason I love SC is mainly its community. Most of them are "imo" smart people, able to develope AMAZING software to watch games, building websites to write battle reports, building cooperative communities to share work and make crazy tools such as TLPD.
On WC3, all you have is a bunch of crybaby whining when their streaming goes off. If they had any idea how hard it is to watch a SC game and how simple it is to broadcast WC3, they would never cry.
The reason why they (we) are like that is because there was no pain in WC3. In starcraft, in the beginning, there was nothing to watch about a game. Then some people started writing battle reports, then some VODs came up, then the Online streaming but it all took so much time that most of you guys know when to enjoy a stream that works, it's a precious thing.
Fourth fact. Balance where ?
Why is that OOV can win 36 games in a row in a match-up and he's called a god or bonjwa and when Moon does that everyone goes crying "NE over imbalance". Why did the SC community managed to go over a bit the balance discussions and WC3 people never did. (Ok protoss is a bit ez but still).
Everytime I watch a goodgame I wish I could find threads like on TL about WC3. But all I see is "lol grubby won lol gg orc" - "lol gg moon Ne imba". Etc.
WHERE IS THE FUCKING IQ IN WC3 ?
I used to love this game and I never found any community smart enough to enjoy the game at the same level you guys do on SC.
So I switched game... and now, with SC2 and people talking everywhere about communities merging. Will we merge to the top, TL like sites ? Or will we merge down, with more stupid discussions, stupid newcomers, stupid balance stuff...
 
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Good call man, WC3 is for newbs.
Edit:And on the subject of balance, didn't one of the pro WC3 leagues get caught rigging maps because the game was too imba?
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Katowice25012 Posts
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On February 28 2009 00:50 jello_biafra wrote:
Good call man, WC3 is for newbs.
Edit:And on the subject of balance, didn't one of the pro WC3 leagues get caught rigging maps because the game was too imba?
It was a long time ago, one of the last MBC Prime league in late 2004 had a map-maker from Clan REX. He modified the map to favor Orc units regen% leading ReX-Romeo to win it.
After the scandal, the program stopped and came back named MWL. But the ratings were already so low, they just became even lower...
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TL bans most idiots pretty quickly. I am sure with the launch of SC2 there will be an spike in retardation on the TL fora. However, I am confident that the mods will quickly show them the ban hammer.
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On February 28 2009 00:50 heyoka wrote:
I vote SC
It's not the point of my article. Both games kick ass in my opinion. On one game the community pushed it to the top, on the other, well, you can guess.
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very good post 
I'm happy ur in the SC community now :D
I actually started to play a bit WC3 too, but i noticed that you cant really talk alot with the other wc3 players about strategies or therorycraft.....they are very primitive.
SC community >>>>>> WC3 community .....its sad but its true 
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I often feel that SC players are too arrogant and elitist. I don't play WC3 myself, but I know it is still one of the best RTS games and has a pro scene, so it deserves a lot more respect.
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United States7166 Posts
i used to be pretty hardcore WC3 gamer and I couldn't agree more. fuck, the wc3 community is just such a shithole
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I hope that TL will always be elitist SC bastards. that is what makes this site so great!
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Good blog, I used to play alot of WC3 myself before I got sick of the repetition and went back to starcraft. I didn't notice any low IQ in the community of WC3, but then again I never got involved. I did notice a much greater retard-factor against people I played though. When I beat someone in Stacraft, it happens that people say "noob hacker" and quit without gg, but when I played WC3 it seemed the best you could hope for was a "fuck you you motherfucking asshole UD bitch" without a "nigger" at the end.
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I suck at Starcraft. My Iccup rating would translate to -F or +G. I play big FFA's on big maps or compstomps after failing hard on 1v1 and 2v2. I still love it because it is the best game. I played WC3 for a while and Westwood studio games but no other game compares. The paths to victory are very diverse and everybody has a different style. Also the variety of maps really affects the game. Thats why Broodwar is still fresh.
Most other games don't evolve much and grind down to cookiecutters.
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This is why I haven't tried to get into WC3. The game isn't bad in itself but why bother learning all the nuances if there's no community to enjoy it with.
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This is actually a pretty good blog post imo.
As a past wc3er myself, the majority of the wc3 community tends to be a bunch of egotistical assholes. One of the most important factors for a game to develop is its community. If the community behind a game is very disrespectful towards veteran, amateur, or casual players, the game is not going to develop a level of understanding and respect as other games that have done really well competitively (SC, 3s, etc.)
If you ask the majority of wc3 players today, they will assume sc is a mass units game only with no micro, which is certainly not true of course. But to be honest, this ignorance for other games can be found in any game's community, even TL is a part of it. Though we can try to prevent it, it tends to become inevitable to happen, no matter how good a community is.
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Canada9720 Posts
nice post, but if you're referring to oov's tvz win streak, it was 27 games, not 36
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Nice post.
I was a WC3-Player too. And I switched the game about 3 years ago. But I am still folloing the WC3-Scene a little bit and I can agree with your post.
But WC3 is going to die. There are no great tournaments anymore, there are no new maps, all the old clans are minimizing their squads.
But BW is still fresh and I enjoy the community.
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i've thought about that too and the conclusion i came to was that RPGs, or games with massive RPG elements, tend to have absolute counters to things in which there is nothing one player can do against the other players counter. or as nony said 'optimal play'
what i've also noticed is that people who are mainly attracted to RPG type games in a 'competitive' sense, for the most part, unknowingly begin to identify themselves with whatever they're playing - or they notice it and become more and more complacent about it over time.
for example, my friends who play wow (who i noticed this from) ALWAYS refer to the class they're playing as themselves
'yea we're getting nerfed soon but you guys are getting buffed'
they speak as if they're a part of a greater whole, furthermore when they come to a point in which they actually do something on their character/hero or whatever THEY actually are doing it. so if a player were to cast a spell or stun etc another player that directly and absolutely counters the other player it's not just about how simple it was for the first player to do that, it's now personal.
that being said i played war3 too at a time, i don't necessarily hate the game but the average stupidity level makes it not worth playing.
i've noticed there's a direct relationship of competence and the learning curve of the game - the easier the game is/gets, the more retards are playing it
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Cool post, I really have no clue about the WC3 community other than my little brother being addicted to DOTA. Do people actually still play ladder games as competitevly as in sc? When I think of ladder games in WC3 it seems like it would be boring just focusing on one hero and planning everything around that.
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what could you expect of a community for a game where it's UMS games are more popular than the game itself?
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SC>WC3, here is the reason:
1. as mentioned wc3 player are naive and dumb (at least most of them)
starcraft player are older and better educated
2. WC3 is not so popular as we imagined, many of my friend plays dota, but they don't WC3... (dota > wc3?)
3. no new blood, we can only see Sky, Moon, Grubby, Tod take all prize money everytime.
4. esport is nothing without korea's support, most wc3 tournament are very poorly organized, 90% of wc3 tourment in held in China, where is the heaven of corruption, I mean one for example, Korea sponsor gave 500k dollars to Chinese organizer during CKCG tournament, Chinese only used like about 80k, and put the rest of the money to their own pocket. (ok sorry no source)
5. in WC3, they still play old school maps.
6. WC3 is too IMBA, in starcraft we are waiting for new strategy for the revolution. But in WC3, they are waiting for the new patch.
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EPT
