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This a blog entry I've been thinking of for a long time. However, it's not sorted, it's just information I've been thinking for years.
First fact - Love etc.
WC3 loves SC, SC dislikes WC3.
Amongst the WC3 players and fans, there is a huge respect for SC even if most of them don't have a clue about the game, they all pretend to be former SC players, that they began playing RTS on Starcraft etc. Sometimes it's true, most of the time it's just said to sound like a "true" gamer.
Second fact - Hate etc.
When I joined TL, I had 3 years of WC3 in my backpack and thousands of laddergames. I was watching every replay etc. I felt like I could help some people here understanding what is so good about WC3 but I quickly realize that there is almost no way to communicate about WC3 in the SC community. I understand why, I understand some of the reasons, but when you get to know WC3, there are amazing things out there to watch, to play.
Third fact - Why are wc3 people fucking dumb ?
It's not a random rage fact, it's a fucking real fact. I'm 25 years old and I'm "old" in the WC3 community. Old in experience and old in age. The community is younger than the SC community but still, I can't explain why people are so stupid on WC3.
Try reading Bnet forums, try reading Sk-gaming forums, try reading wcreplays.com forums, you will NEVER EVER find in-depth guides like there is on TL. You will NEVER EVER find interesting discussions about a game like on TL.
Seriously, the reason I love SC is mainly its community. Most of them are "imo" smart people, able to develope AMAZING software to watch games, building websites to write battle reports, building cooperative communities to share work and make crazy tools such as TLPD.
On WC3, all you have is a bunch of crybaby whining when their streaming goes off. If they had any idea how hard it is to watch a SC game and how simple it is to broadcast WC3, they would never cry.
The reason why they (we) are like that is because there was no pain in WC3. In starcraft, in the beginning, there was nothing to watch about a game. Then some people started writing battle reports, then some VODs came up, then the Online streaming but it all took so much time that most of you guys know when to enjoy a stream that works, it's a precious thing.
Fourth fact. Balance where ?
Why is that OOV can win 36 games in a row in a match-up and he's called a god or bonjwa and when Moon does that everyone goes crying "NE over imbalance". Why did the SC community managed to go over a bit the balance discussions and WC3 people never did. (Ok protoss is a bit ez but still).
Everytime I watch a goodgame I wish I could find threads like on TL about WC3. But all I see is "lol grubby won lol gg orc" - "lol gg moon Ne imba". Etc.
WHERE IS THE FUCKING IQ IN WC3 ?
I used to love this game and I never found any community smart enough to enjoy the game at the same level you guys do on SC.
So I switched game... and now, with SC2 and people talking everywhere about communities merging. Will we merge to the top, TL like sites ? Or will we merge down, with more stupid discussions, stupid newcomers, stupid balance stuff...
 
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Good call man, WC3 is for newbs.
Edit:And on the subject of balance, didn't one of the pro WC3 leagues get caught rigging maps because the game was too imba?
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Katowice25012 Posts
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On February 28 2009 00:50 jello_biafra wrote:
Good call man, WC3 is for newbs.
Edit:And on the subject of balance, didn't one of the pro WC3 leagues get caught rigging maps because the game was too imba?
It was a long time ago, one of the last MBC Prime league in late 2004 had a map-maker from Clan REX. He modified the map to favor Orc units regen% leading ReX-Romeo to win it.
After the scandal, the program stopped and came back named MWL. But the ratings were already so low, they just became even lower...
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TL bans most idiots pretty quickly. I am sure with the launch of SC2 there will be an spike in retardation on the TL fora. However, I am confident that the mods will quickly show them the ban hammer.
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On February 28 2009 00:50 heyoka wrote:
I vote SC
It's not the point of my article. Both games kick ass in my opinion. On one game the community pushed it to the top, on the other, well, you can guess.
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very good post 
I'm happy ur in the SC community now :D
I actually started to play a bit WC3 too, but i noticed that you cant really talk alot with the other wc3 players about strategies or therorycraft.....they are very primitive.
SC community >>>>>> WC3 community .....its sad but its true 
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I often feel that SC players are too arrogant and elitist. I don't play WC3 myself, but I know it is still one of the best RTS games and has a pro scene, so it deserves a lot more respect.
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United States7166 Posts
i used to be pretty hardcore WC3 gamer and I couldn't agree more. fuck, the wc3 community is just such a shithole
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I hope that TL will always be elitist SC bastards. that is what makes this site so great!
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Good blog, I used to play alot of WC3 myself before I got sick of the repetition and went back to starcraft. I didn't notice any low IQ in the community of WC3, but then again I never got involved. I did notice a much greater retard-factor against people I played though. When I beat someone in Stacraft, it happens that people say "noob hacker" and quit without gg, but when I played WC3 it seemed the best you could hope for was a "fuck you you motherfucking asshole UD bitch" without a "nigger" at the end.
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I suck at Starcraft. My Iccup rating would translate to -F or +G. I play big FFA's on big maps or compstomps after failing hard on 1v1 and 2v2. I still love it because it is the best game. I played WC3 for a while and Westwood studio games but no other game compares. The paths to victory are very diverse and everybody has a different style. Also the variety of maps really affects the game. Thats why Broodwar is still fresh.
Most other games don't evolve much and grind down to cookiecutters.
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This is why I haven't tried to get into WC3. The game isn't bad in itself but why bother learning all the nuances if there's no community to enjoy it with.
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This is actually a pretty good blog post imo.
As a past wc3er myself, the majority of the wc3 community tends to be a bunch of egotistical assholes. One of the most important factors for a game to develop is its community. If the community behind a game is very disrespectful towards veteran, amateur, or casual players, the game is not going to develop a level of understanding and respect as other games that have done really well competitively (SC, 3s, etc.)
If you ask the majority of wc3 players today, they will assume sc is a mass units game only with no micro, which is certainly not true of course. But to be honest, this ignorance for other games can be found in any game's community, even TL is a part of it. Though we can try to prevent it, it tends to become inevitable to happen, no matter how good a community is.
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Canada9720 Posts
nice post, but if you're referring to oov's tvz win streak, it was 27 games, not 36
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Nice post.
I was a WC3-Player too. And I switched the game about 3 years ago. But I am still folloing the WC3-Scene a little bit and I can agree with your post.
But WC3 is going to die. There are no great tournaments anymore, there are no new maps, all the old clans are minimizing their squads.
But BW is still fresh and I enjoy the community.
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i've thought about that too and the conclusion i came to was that RPGs, or games with massive RPG elements, tend to have absolute counters to things in which there is nothing one player can do against the other players counter. or as nony said 'optimal play'
what i've also noticed is that people who are mainly attracted to RPG type games in a 'competitive' sense, for the most part, unknowingly begin to identify themselves with whatever they're playing - or they notice it and become more and more complacent about it over time.
for example, my friends who play wow (who i noticed this from) ALWAYS refer to the class they're playing as themselves
'yea we're getting nerfed soon but you guys are getting buffed'
they speak as if they're a part of a greater whole, furthermore when they come to a point in which they actually do something on their character/hero or whatever THEY actually are doing it. so if a player were to cast a spell or stun etc another player that directly and absolutely counters the other player it's not just about how simple it was for the first player to do that, it's now personal.
that being said i played war3 too at a time, i don't necessarily hate the game but the average stupidity level makes it not worth playing.
i've noticed there's a direct relationship of competence and the learning curve of the game - the easier the game is/gets, the more retards are playing it
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Cool post, I really have no clue about the WC3 community other than my little brother being addicted to DOTA. Do people actually still play ladder games as competitevly as in sc? When I think of ladder games in WC3 it seems like it would be boring just focusing on one hero and planning everything around that.
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what could you expect of a community for a game where it's UMS games are more popular than the game itself?
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SC>WC3, here is the reason:
1. as mentioned wc3 player are naive and dumb (at least most of them)
starcraft player are older and better educated
2. WC3 is not so popular as we imagined, many of my friend plays dota, but they don't WC3... (dota > wc3?)
3. no new blood, we can only see Sky, Moon, Grubby, Tod take all prize money everytime.
4. esport is nothing without korea's support, most wc3 tournament are very poorly organized, 90% of wc3 tourment in held in China, where is the heaven of corruption, I mean one for example, Korea sponsor gave 500k dollars to Chinese organizer during CKCG tournament, Chinese only used like about 80k, and put the rest of the money to their own pocket. (ok sorry no source)
5. in WC3, they still play old school maps.
6. WC3 is too IMBA, in starcraft we are waiting for new strategy for the revolution. But in WC3, they are waiting for the new patch.
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I still think W3 is an amazing game, and the fact that it's remained competetive for so long is impressive. But simply because of the game system it will need to be constantly patched to accomodate the latest popular hero/item combinations. It could take a hundred patches to achieve a fully balanced metagame.
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We will merge "down", lots and lots of newbs will enter the community, but I hope TL will ban all of those f*ckers. There will be dozens of noob-communitys tho.
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On February 28 2009 00:47 yejin wrote:
This a blog entry I've been thinking of for a long time. However, it's not sorted, it's just information I've been thinking for years.
First fact - Love etc.
WC3 loves SC, SC dislikes WC3.
Amongst the WC3 players and fans, there is a huge respect for SC even if most of them don't have a clue about the game, they all pretend to be former SC players, that they began playing RTS on Starcraft etc. Sometimes it's true, most of the time it's just said to sound like a "true" gamer.
Second fact - Hate etc.
When I joined TL, I had 3 years of WC3 in my backpack and thousands of laddergames. I was watching every replay etc. I felt like I could help some people here understanding what is so good about WC3 but I quickly realize that there is almost no way to communicate about WC3 in the SC community. I understand why, I understand some of the reasons, but when you get to know WC3, there are amazing things out there to watch, to play.
Third fact - Why are wc3 people fucking dumb ?
It's not a random rage fact, it's a fucking real fact. I'm 25 years old and I'm "old" in the WC3 community. Old in experience and old in age. The community is younger than the SC community but still, I can't explain why people are so stupid on WC3.
Try reading Bnet forums, try reading Sk-gaming forums, try reading wcreplays.com forums, you will NEVER EVER find in-depth guides like there is on TL. You will NEVER EVER find interesting discussions about a game like on TL.
Seriously, the reason I love SC is mainly its community. Most of them are "imo" smart people, able to develope AMAZING software to watch games, building websites to write battle reports, building cooperative communities to share work and make crazy tools such as TLPD.
On WC3, all you have is a bunch of crybaby whining when their streaming goes off. If they had any idea how hard it is to watch a SC game and how simple it is to broadcast WC3, they would never cry.
The reason why they (we) are like that is because there was no pain in WC3. In starcraft, in the beginning, there was nothing to watch about a game. Then some people started writing battle reports, then some VODs came up, then the Online streaming but it all took so much time that most of you guys know when to enjoy a stream that works, it's a precious thing.
Fourth fact. Balance where ?
Why is that OOV can win 36 games in a row in a match-up and he's called a god or bonjwa and when Moon does that everyone goes crying "NE over imbalance". Why did the SC community managed to go over a bit the balance discussions and WC3 people never did. (Ok protoss is a bit ez but still).
Everytime I watch a goodgame I wish I could find threads like on TL about WC3. But all I see is "lol grubby won lol gg orc" - "lol gg moon Ne imba". Etc.
WHERE IS THE FUCKING IQ IN WC3 ?
I used to love this game and I never found any community smart enough to enjoy the game at the same level you guys do on SC.
So I switched game... and now, with SC2 and people talking everywhere about communities merging. Will we merge to the top, TL like sites ? Or will we merge down, with more stupid discussions, stupid newcomers, stupid balance stuff...
I agree with you on most counts, the community sucks, and I would even argue that the community has been dead for years.
First fact - Love etc.
This seems like something you just made up, and is completely untrue in my opinion. This is something you probably experienced in an isolated respected, very few War3 players were SC:BW players, unless you're saying people were like this in 2003-2004 which was almost a lifetime ago.
Second fact - Hate etc.
Third fact - Why are wc3 people fucking dumb ?
Agreed, War3 players in general are extremely retarded. The majority of the "skilled" games are long and what we have left is a degraded player pool and community. This cannot be fixed, and it has nothing to do with the game, it's because of WoW, DOTA, and the 1.15 patch, which killed the ladder. There's no "discussion" because there's nothing to discuss, and no one skilled to discuss it.
NEVER EVER find in-depth guides like there is on TL.
In addition to what I mentioned above, in-depth guides for a game like Warcraft III are largely useless because they are impossible to emulate. If a player has better micromanagement, than any strategic decision no matter how well executed is likely to fail. A guide cannot provide game sense nor can it even put you in a position to win in my opinion, so they are largely useless. Everyone in War3 should already have perfect build orders (which they don't of course).
Fourth fact. Balance where ?
Agreed. Except Undead vs Orc. I don't think anyone can argue against this, at the mid to top skill levels Undead vs Orc is imbalanced, I don't think this can be disputed. Look at International tournaments, WC3L statistics or anything. War3 players also don't have the luxury of professional map makers either.
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Most Warcraft 3 players don't even understand how the game works. I think a lot of the imbalance whining etc stems from this fact. It's already hard to admit defeat but it's even harder if you don't have a clue why you lost. So you resort to the only possible explanation that's left: imbalance.
Starcraft is mechanically more demanding and is strategically deeper but it's also a lot more obvious how the game works. That's what makes it such a great game for spectators.
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the problems with wc3 can be stemmed from lack of community. there was never a single unifying website like TL is for starcraft, and it suffered because of that.
this could be because of lack of popularity, or a host of other things, like bad timing.
without a strong community, the game has stagnated. maps from 5+ years ago, rittled with imbalance, are still being played. the same top players are still dominating. undead vs orc has been ridiculous since patch 1.15, and there have been no changes to rememdy it (with 1500 games on the books, undead is at 41%- sk-gaming.com).
that being said, its still not as good of a game as starcraft was, so its no surprised it died out. it is better than most people give it credit for, however.
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On February 28 2009 00:56 yejin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2009 00:50 jello_biafra wrote:
Good call man, WC3 is for newbs.
Edit:And on the subject of balance, didn't one of the pro WC3 leagues get caught rigging maps because the game was too imba? It was a long time ago, one of the last MBC Prime league in late 2004 had a map-maker from Clan REX. He modified the map to favor Orc units regen% leading ReX-Romeo to win it. After the scandal, the program stopped and came back named MWL. But the ratings were already so low, they just became even lower...
First big bug was when it took 10 minutes to research ghoul frenzy (normally takes little time) and that game was regame because fan pressure. Next time romeo got to finals because he was using buffed orcs but Moon discovered that there was something weird and checked maps and noticed maps were rigged. Finals were played normal balance where Moon took it 3-0. Poor  Freedom lost to romeo 0-3 because this map thing.
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I totally agree with your post.
Even though some still believe that WC3 is imbalanced...look at Starcraft. It has a pretty good amount of maps that are imbalanced. WC3 maps are old, but they are pretty good imo.
All in all, great post!
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On February 28 2009 04:45 Jaeden wrote:
I totally agree with your post.
Even though some still believe that WC3 is imbalanced...look at Starcraft. It has a pretty good amount of maps that are imbalanced. WC3 maps are old, but they are pretty good imo.
All in all, great post!
You mean Dayfly discovered the maps were rigged, but anyway the warcraft community was completely retarded. I remember the wcreplays mods having an ego the size of the freakin universe (IC.Shadow, Magess and some other dude with a Hulk icon that was part time body builder in real life forgot his name). and the people thinking that they knew everything about the warcraft scene. I mean good god, even getting anything from the Koreans involved getting through so much bullshit, back in 04 not one of the Korean WCR staff members were willing to set up a vod distribution system or share any vods at all. Everyone had to settle for piss poor battle reports. I also remember warcraft3strategy.com (the site doesn't exist anymore), where you had to pay $ just to get online strategy guides or commentaries from top-level players until the site figured out that no one was willing to do that let alone think of strategies that only required common sense or a little creativity. There was absolutely no strategic depth as complicated as Starcraft ever offered in that game. It was boring as hell too, the maps were used over and over again and it was the same shit all over again, the MBC league was the only league that had the guts to make new interesting maps, and it was also in this league that you saw new innovative strategies. Its point of time and place that I don't ever want to look back on ever again.
People are also forgetting how childish and arrogant the pro's were (Madfrog, Grubby, Tod, Deadman etc) and how Blizzard completely destroyed the scene with the 1.17 firelord patch and the 1.15 destroyers while it took them like 4 months just to fix those bugs and make some minor changes. Also Starcraft is completely and perfectly balanced, the maps are debatable but Warcraft will never ever reach the beauty and the balance of Starcraft, EVER! The imbalance of Warcraft was just ugh!!!
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On February 28 2009 03:12 Piy wrote:
I still think W3 is an amazing game, and the fact that it's remained competetive for so long is impressive. But simply because of the game system it will need to be constantly patched to accomodate the latest popular hero/item combinations. It could take a hundred patches to achieve a fully balanced metagame.
the fact that it's remained competetive for so long is impressive.
Starcraft wins
But simply because of the game system it will need to be constantly patched to accomodate the latest popular hero/item combinations. It could take a hundred patches to achieve a fully balanced metagame.
Starcraft wins again
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im both in the tl and wcr community, yeah the 'scene' news in wcr is like a fucking link. jesus christ, no little summary, nothing, just a fucking link to another website and the OP is just 'discuss' wtf is that?
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Good blog post but I have to argue one thing.
On February 28 2009 00:47 yejin wrote:
Fourth fact. Balance where ?
Why is that OOV can win 36 games in a row in a match-up and he's called a god or bonjwa and when Moon does that everyone goes crying "NE over imbalance". Why did the SC community managed to go over a bit the balance discussions and WC3 people never did. (Ok protoss is a bit ez but still).
Everytime I watch a goodgame I wish I could find threads like on TL about WC3. But all I see is "lol grubby won lol gg orc" - "lol gg moon Ne imba". Etc.
You give the SC community too much credit. People scream imbalance all the time but its become so common (and the listeners so used to/immune to it) that we don't really notice. Were it not for the ever vigilant moderators, it'd be more visible.
If you don't believe me, try to find me the last strategy thread talking about Protoss that doesn't have a stupid "1a2a3a" joke.
And usually with SC, its more talk about map balances than race balances. Plasma, ROtK, Wuthering Heights, etc.
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yeah but as you said yourself 1a2a3a joke is a joke, even if it is a bad one. I think everyone is aware that protoss is only on low levels slightly easier.
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Sweden33719 Posts
@ OP
So, sooo true - your first point especially has frustrated me something tremendous. I used to (kind of) be one of the "lol wc3" crowd and can only look back on that and shake my head :/
Anyway, WCReplays still does have some nice qualities imo - their audio section is awesome, especially Phreak.
They have some fairly comprehensive guides for NE and (at least) Humans in their strat forums too (stickied). Patience's gigantic NE primer audio commentary pack was impressive, even though as a WC3 fish I can't really judge the level of the content).
@ LW, almost everytime I see SC mentioned on WCReplays there are more positive comments than negative. Maybe they are just a very SC-friendly part of the Wc3 community o_O
@ Claims of imbalance in general.. Go back in time to pre-Bisu and you'll find soooooooooo many threads about how PvZ is impossible etcetc. I'm glad I was on the right side of that one lol (#1 champion of the "PvZ is balanced" cause!).
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On February 28 2009 07:04 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
yeah but as you said yourself 1a2a3a joke is a joke, even if it is a bad one. I think everyone is aware that protoss is only on low levels slightly easier.
too bad most of the players are low level haha :D
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3470 Posts
On February 28 2009 00:47 yejin wrote:
Or will we merge down, with more stupid discussions, stupid newcomers, stupid balance stuff...
God I hope not. One of the things that have kept TLnet a great website is moderation that doesn't tolerate dumbasses. Mods/admins actually deal with this shit. I hope they never get lazy or relaxed and let the community degrade even further than it already has.
Mods/admins, if you ever need an extra bruiser I'm your man for the job.
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The mod staff is very active and strict here, which filters out a lot of the dumb people who are loud mouthed as well.
That definitely contributes.
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There are so many more things I should have wrote in the OP. I was out of time.
In 2006, WC3 was so big, so big. For me, we were that close to go beyond the SC commercial success. Moon getting CRAZY salaries, MYM, SK, World Elite, Beijing esports team etc. making crazy contracts.
And then, it fell, so quickly.
and even myself, the biggest fan out there, I lost every bit of interest in a couple of months.
The reason
In Starcraft, the community managed to let go some of the stars. It's heartbreaking to see kingdom, Nal_Ra or yellow walking away but on the other hand, it's necessary. The new unknown gamers we hated when they eliminated the stars made the survival of SC possible, maybe lowering the TV rates tho.
On Warcraft 3, the community and the tournament organizers NEEDED the stars. Always. You don't qualify ? No problem, I'll auto-invite you and 4 other guys we see every day.
In 2005, moon played grubby on LAN in V-sports allstars Los angeles. There had been encounters before but back then Grubby was not so good yet. That one game thrilled me and maybe 10 000 other guys trying to watch it.
Right now, if you go on replays.net and type Moon Grubby, you'll find 200 replays (I'm not kidding) of Moon vs Grubby and every possible map, every possible days.
Try to imagine Nada vs Savior every 2 weeks during 3 years. Would you care ? Nope. We love the SC Stars because everytime they make it to RO8 or RO4, it's a fucking blessing.
One more thing.
On teamliquid, when I joined, I've seen threads about guys in the USA meeting for the OSL Finals and beers and chips and party.
HOLY SHIT. I was so so so jealous. THATS THE REAL FUCKING DEAL MAN. You have a fucking nice game, you get hyped, you bring buddies, you get drunk and you watch Savior winning an OSL. Psychologically, the reason why the game feels so good then, it's because of your anticipation and your mindset when the OSL opening starts.
In wc3. No hype, no cool opening (or a LONG time ago). Just a poor chinese guy on Gamebank TV presenting a jpg picture of moon showing some stats, and not even a forum talking about the game being played...;;;;;;;;
Oh boy, the more I think about it, the more I realize wc3 was dying in front of us, and we didnt see it coming until it was too late.
The ESL cutting off WC3 from extreme masters + going with 2 men line-up in the WC3L just cut the last breath of one of my favourite.
I Feel that the story could have been different, maybe I'm wrong.
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gotta love the ban hammer
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Oh and one more thing.
When TeamLiquid writes about league it's always named
"Sponsor - League" as "Batoo OSL" or "Pringles MSL".
That's called being smart. Why ? Because if you make sponsors happy, then they might be happy with what they paid for, so when a website takes care of talking about a sponsor, it takes care of its own community.
On WC3, the marketing knowledge was so poor, and the people in command so new to business that the sponsors were always fighting. A team website being sponsored by Intel, Steelseries & co would never promote a league sponsored by AMD and Qpad. Or they will just say "NGL results". Then every website goes on and make pictures without the sponsor, team names without the sponsor etc.
So, what would the sponsor do when the contract ends ? bye bye...
AND MANY MORE MISTAKES.
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I'm always so amazed by how clean the korean esport worlds seems to be (I may be mistaken, but this is how i see it from the outside).
I mean, there's NO WAY any western organisation as huge in it's country as the OSL/MSL is in Korea would allow their star players to be eliminated early on in the competition. They would find any vicious way to let their star players/teams get back in so that people can buy their products when that player/team wins another game.
Look at what the boxing industry is like in the western world. I'll restrain from giving other examples i've got in mind to keep on topic 
Maybe the koreans just figured out that having a real competition is better than keeping the same old names all the time. Although I must agree with the people who posted before me...they've got the huge advantage of having so many youngsters comming up and pushing the legends out. And because of the discipline in the teams, those players don't disapear right after disqualifying a favorite.
I've got a question though. I quit W3 quite a while ago so i'm just curious. When you say that people don't really make interesting comments on games that were played, isn't that related to the fact that most of the counters are already clearly defined in WC3? Having a capped macro and very little strategical variation from one game to another (at least that's how i saw it back when i watched some WC3), doesn't it just all come down to micro in the end? Of course sometimes we'll see some interesting strategies or army manoeuvres, but those are the really pimp games. That's how i remember it, but maybe i was just blind or things changed.
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I really, really agree with the OP. You seem like you have a much better understanding of the scene and what goes on than most people I've seen here in the last 6 years.
I also really agree with what ven_ said, I think most people (WarCraft 3 players and non-WarCraft 3 players alike) don't understand the game very well at all, and I think that accounts for a lot of the frustration and immaturity in both the WarCraft 3 community and other communities.
Although I don't agree that this is necessarily a WarCraft 3 vs StarCraft discussion (yet), and this may very well degenerate into something worthless, you raise some interesting points in an unbiased way and I'll be curious to see where this leads
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I think one of the main reasons warcraft 3 wasnt as deep as starcraft is because of the way tech trees work in warcraft 3. with the lack of buildings, you can scout your opponents base but it really wont tell you much because EVERYONE is doing the same thing the majority of the time, theres no hidden tech, no proxies etc. pretty much all the 1on1 games end with the same army comps and theres not as many unique builds you can do in warcraft 3.
also the warcraft 3 community on BATTLE.NET in random ladder games or in a random dota game can be bad mannered but the same can be said about battle.net for starcraft or any game for that matter.
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EPT
