EPTstarcraft emphasizes on the importance of timing, speed, and prediction. all of these aspects are crucial in any game.
Starcraft skills translates! - Page 2
| Blogs > Zoler |
|
ramen247
United States1256 Posts
starcraft emphasizes on the importance of timing, speed, and prediction. all of these aspects are crucial in any game. | ||
|
s.a.y
Croatia3840 Posts
| ||
|
PocketX
53 Posts
On February 13 2009 09:09 Zoler wrote: I don't agree. No game has even close to the mechanical skill requirement that SC has. You just haven't explored the games deep enough. You may think sc is like the fastest pace rts, but try playing WC2, with an apm of 200 and Iccup C level, you won't even be able to keep up at the multitasking. The game is like playing sc on x2 maps. Or take another game for example, Rise of nations. Whereas micro isn't as necessary (whether you micro barely affects outcome of battles), try macroing off 5 towns (in an avg game, you will build 8 towns which is equivalent to 3-4 base of sc as T or P). 5 towns is MUCH harder than 3-4 base of sc. Is macro necessary in that game? not really, but if you have that extra amount of speed that cannot be developed by a human, the potential there is much higher. What I'm trying to say is, the potential is much higher in these 2 games listed for the aspects I mentioned. But no one actually develops up to that point, If Koreans never picked up SC as an e-sport, it is quite probable that SC's mechanical skills will not be discovered; which is the case for your classmates because they have never seen what a pro is. | ||
|
KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On February 13 2009 08:31 Atrioc wrote: Haha i've been doing this same thing on every single RTS game that has come out in years and I'm only D+/C- at Starcraft I've got this trademark thing (among friends / at LANs) of making a "3 day promise" - you pick an RTS game and even though I've never played it I will beat you at it in 3 days guaranteed. Worked for cocky assholes at Age of Empires III, Company of Heroes, Dawn of War, Empire Earth, etc. It even works on Warcraft III (though this one is by far the closest to SC in terms of depth and much more difficult to use) I gave my friend who had been playing the game for YEARS and had thousands of 1v1 wins a "1 month promise" to see if i could beat him by the end of the month. When the time came I won 2-1 in a Bo3 and then proceeded to beat him again 7-0 a month later. SC is seriously the most skill intensive game basically ever made. Only some hardcore fighting games are of similiar depth. It has nothing to do with the fact that you play starcraft though ~~ Rather you have played RTS games (maybe even games in general) in a resonably competetive enviroment soo much more than these guys that you'll rape them no matter game. It would have been the same if you had played C&C or Wc3 or whatever. Try playing for example AoE3 vs someone who has played it as much as you have played starcraft, he would 1v3 you + friends without breaking a sweat. As for your Wc3 friend, those guys exist in bw as well you know :p Random bnet ppl with 10k+ games and they are still barely D level, any seriously competive player from another game would beat them within a month as well. | ||
|
TheTyranid
Russian Federation4333 Posts
I'm curious. | ||
|
Raithed
China7078 Posts
| ||
|
Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On February 13 2009 09:33 TheTyranid wrote: Hey Zoler, did you win by just massing Space Marine tacticals with heavy bolters and rockets? I'm curious. No I were Necro and "rushed" them as they called it with a very quick upgrade. Then when I had around 3-4 groups of the standard units I reinforced with flayed ones. I think one of the advantages I had was macro, to reinforce all the groups all the time. The ones I played against stacked up a unit with new building units and didn't care about the rest. In that way they just got 1 new unit while I got 3-4... etc. Also I took control points while we fighted, while they just concentrated on the battle. | ||
|
PocketX
53 Posts
On February 13 2009 09:33 KlaCkoN wrote: It has nothing to do with the fact that you play starcraft though ~~ Rather you have played RTS games (maybe even games in general) in a resonably competetive enviroment soo much more than these guys that you'll rape them no matter game. It would have been the same if you had played C&C or Wc3 or whatever. Try playing for example AoE3 vs someone who has played it as much as you have played starcraft, he would 1v3 you + friends without breaking a sweat. As for your Wc3 friend, those guys exist in bw as well you know :p Random bnet ppl with 10k+ games and they are still barely D level, any seriously competive player from another game would beat them within a month as well. I fully agree with this. On February 13 2009 09:11 ramen247 wrote: starcraft skills translates to ANY game. even in mmorpg, megaman games...fps games... starcraft emphasizes on the importance of timing, speed, and prediction. all of these aspects are crucial in any game. Well yeah, but sc doesn't develop everything efficiently. It's like a pingpong player can run faster than him/herself if he/she hadn't picked up any sport. While sc may be the game that develops the most skills, you can't say playing sc will make you own every game. | ||
|
PH
United States6173 Posts
On February 13 2009 09:03 PocketX wrote: I don't completely agree that playing sc was the reason for your win. It is definitely your passion and influence from the pro scene that made you understand the importance of mechanics. I'm pretty sure a decent wc3 player who follows the pro scene can do the same in your situation, perhaps beating a player up to D+ after giving him 3 days of practice (like your scenario) The thing is, there are many who play sc for years and remain noob (play lots of team match/ums without goal to improve). And sadly, these players should be accounted as sc players as well and ppl who have mechanics from other games can just steamroll over them too. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about people who play hardcore on bgh/fastest (they have their own sets of skills), but I'm just saying you are simply the better player overall and sc was only helpful because there's a well established pro scene. congrats of the win though There's a difference between a player who plays standard melee SC games and tries to learn the game seriously and a player who plays casually to have fun and to enjoy themselves. Obviously, only the former is going to have those transferable mechanics. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 13 2009 09:27 PocketX wrote: You just haven't explored the games deep enough. You may think sc is like the fastest pace rts, but try playing WC2, with an apm of 200 and Iccup C level, you won't even be able to keep up at the multitasking. The game is like playing sc on x2 maps. WC2 is one game. Its also older than SC, and has more interface restrictions, not to mention the fact that the game-speeds don't translate well on modern CPUs. On February 13 2009 09:27 PocketX wrote: Or take another game for example, Rise of nations. Whereas micro isn't as necessary (whether you micro barely affects outcome of battles), try macroing off 5 towns (in an avg game, you will build 8 towns which is equivalent to 3-4 base of sc as T or P). 5 towns is MUCH harder than 3-4 base of sc. Is macro necessary in that game? not really, but if you have that extra amount of speed that cannot be developed by a human, the potential there is much higher. Actually, RoN macro is fairly easy compared to SC macro, due to the fact that the interface helps automate many aspects (e.g. queues that go much longer than SC's 5, and autogathering for a good number of the resources). | ||
|
ramen247
United States1256 Posts
| ||
Atrioc
United States1866 Posts
On February 13 2009 09:33 KlaCkoN wrote: It has nothing to do with the fact that you play starcraft though ~~ Rather you have played RTS games (maybe even games in general) in a resonably competetive enviroment soo much more than these guys that you'll rape them no matter game. It would have been the same if you had played C&C or Wc3 or whatever. Try playing for example AoE3 vs someone who has played it as much as you have played starcraft, he would 1v3 you + friends without breaking a sweat. As for your Wc3 friend, those guys exist in bw as well you know :p Random bnet ppl with 10k+ games and they are still barely D level, any seriously competive player from another game would beat them within a month as well. I do agree with you to a point - you are right I wasnt able to win those games simply because I had played SC. My training regimen in the 3 days (or 1 month) was way way more efficient than anything those guys were using - I knew how to practice, to find the best builds quickly and practice them heavily, and to watch pros to see how they react to situations. I do agree that (even though these ARE skills I learned from starcraft) those were my keys to my winning. HOWEVER, I actually DID play AoE3 at a competitive level - I was #10 USA pre-War Cheifs and was #1 in the world 2v2 when TWC was released. I had never even heard of Starcraft - and when my friend called me out on it, I pulled a similiar stunt (hadn't invented the 3 day promise yet) and challenged him at SC - and got RAPED. This guy was D-, but I got absolutely trashed in a variety of ways (me Z him T) for a LONG time, because I was simply not ready mechanically or mentally. I simply didnt think about things like an SC player - i.e. "look back at your base whenever you get a chance", or practice 1 build until you get it down. I kept thinking my failure was based on unit choice - I tried using Queens with Broodling vs Tanks because I simply didnt "get" that my fault was not making lurker/ling but that I wasnt making nearly enough lurker ling. So while I agree with you that its more the person rather than the game - a person good at SC is guaranteed to be good at any other RTS once he learns the stratagies, while the reverse is not true - making being good at SC the best "base" anyone could ask for. | ||
|
Boblion
France8043 Posts
On February 13 2009 09:03 PocketX wrote: I don't completely agree that playing sc was the reason for your win. It is definitely your passion and influence from the pro scene that made you understand the importance of mechanics. I'm pretty sure a decent wc3 player who follows the pro scene can do the same in your situation, perhaps beating a player up to D+ after giving him 3 days of practice (like your scenario) The thing is, there are many who play sc for years and remain noob (play lots of team match/ums without goal to improve). And sadly, these players should be accounted as sc players as well and ppl who have mechanics from other games can just steamroll over them too. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about people who play hardcore on bgh/fastest (they have their own sets of skills), but I'm just saying you are simply the better player overall and sc was only helpful because there's a well established pro scene. congrats of the win though A warcraft player who has never played broodwar before would be absolutly RAPED by a D+ player. I take bets. | ||
|
Boblion
France8043 Posts
He never beat me, even when i played with off races and after like 3 or 4 months he left because "macro is too hard". Haha and i'm not even a decent player. When i played PvT vs him i could take the whole map ^_^ | ||
|
Archaic
United States4024 Posts
| ||
|
ilovehnk
475 Posts
| ||
|
Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
 | ||
|
anotak
United States1537 Posts
On February 13 2009 09:37 Zoler wrote: No I were Necro and "rushed" them as they called it with a very quick upgrade. Then when I had around 3-4 groups of the standard units I reinforced with flayed ones. I think one of the advantages I had was macro, to reinforce all the groups all the time. The ones I played against stacked up a unit with new building units and didn't care about the rest. In that way they just got 1 new unit while I got 3-4... etc. Also I took control points while we fighted, while they just concentrated on the battle. HAHAHA people always want to play me in that shitty game and this is what i do too exactly and i beat them at it just like you said its so easy too like what the hell | ||
|
Jonoman92
United States9110 Posts
| ||
|
daz
Canada643 Posts
On February 13 2009 09:33 KlaCkoN wrote: It has nothing to do with the fact that you play starcraft though ~~ Rather you have played RTS games (maybe even games in general) in a resonably competetive enviroment soo much more than these guys that you'll rape them no matter game. It would have been the same if you had played C&C or Wc3 or whatever. Try playing for example AoE3 vs someone who has played it as much as you have played starcraft, he would 1v3 you + friends without breaking a sweat. As for your Wc3 friend, those guys exist in bw as well you know :p Random bnet ppl with 10k+ games and they are still barely D level, any seriously competive player from another game would beat them within a month as well. this would be true except for the fact that no other game really has a reasonably competitive environment when compared to starcraft. Only Wc3 even comes remotely close. | ||
| ||
