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Chess Training vs Racenilatr

Blogs > micronesia
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micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 03:11:23
February 02 2009 02:51 GMT
#1
Former Chess Blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=78428

I am starting to train to get good in chess so I'm looking for opponents whenever I have the chance. I'm still pretty weak, but I am seeing quick improvements.

I played four games vs Racenilatr today. After the last game, he said he was going to play starcraft but wanted me to review the games with him. I told him I only had a record of the final game so I'd have to do that one even though it wasn't the best game (I actually realized shortly before completing this long post that there is a record stored of every game!) We agreed that I'd make a post where I analyzed the game for him to learn from. I invite all the readers to discuss the game as well, and anybody new to chess can possibly learn from this.

White: Racenilatr
Black: micronesia

1: d4

[image loading]

Queen's Pawn Opening. The Queen's Pawn opening move is somewhat slower than the popular e4, because White will not be able to castle for three more moves. Its advantage is that it gives White more control over tactical surprises and often provides more lasting initiative and pressure.

1: ... d5

[image loading]

Queen's Pawn Game. Black answers symmetrically, challenging the center directly.

2: Bg5

[image loading]

Levitsky Attack. In Queen's Pawn openings, there is always a problem: how to activate the c1-Bishop. By developing the Bishop outside the pawn chain (before White plays e3), White guarantees the Bishop a future, if only to trade it off. White wins 15% more than Black statistically.

2: ... Nc6

[image loading]

Out of opening book.

Additional Commentary: I'm not used to playing against this white opening, so I had no prior experience playing against it. I knew it wasn't a common opening because it violates the general rule of developing knights before bishops. I decided the pin on the pawn at e7 wasn't a big deal, so I developed my b8 knight. I was considering a fiancetto on the king's side in order to force him to respond to my threat on the d4 pawn, but didn't end up doing it.

3: Nf3

[image loading]

Develops a Knight.

3: ... Nf6

[image loading]

Releases the pin on Black's pawn at e7.

4: h4

[image loading]

This move doesn't seem to accomplish very much. It's rare that you want to move a rook's pawn two spaces this early in the game.

4: ... Bf5

[image loading]

Develops a bishop, and attacks white's weakest pawn at c2.

5: Qd2

[image loading]

Brings the queen out of the back row. Also attacks the b4 square, preventing the knight on c6 from advancing with the intent to target c2 and win a rook at a1.

5: ... Qd7

[image loading]

Enables the long castle.

Additional Commentary: This move proved to be very helpful, but I didn't yet know how I was going to use the queen when I moved it here.

6: a4

[image loading]

Similar to h4, I don't see this accomplishing very much. It would be better to develop a minor piece and/or get ready to castle.

6: ... e6

[image loading]

Backs up the pawn at d5 and the bishop at f5. Opens the diagonal for the f8 bishop which attacks the square at b4, and allows the c6 knight to advance.

7: e3

[image loading]

Backs up the d4 pawn and opens the diagonal for the f1 bishop.

7: ... Nb4

[image loading]

Threatens to fork the king and the rook at a1 by Nxc2. Is attacked by white's queen, but defended by black's bishop at f8.

8: c3

[image loading]


Ouch! Leads to 8...Nc2+ 9.Kd1 Nxa1 10.Bb5 c6 11.Ne5 Qc7 12.Bd3 Ne4 13.Qe2 f6 14.g4 fxe5 15.gxf5 exf5 16.dxe5 Nxg5 17.hxg5 Qxe5, which wins a bishop, a knight, and a pawn for a rook, a bishop, a knight, and two pawns. Much better is Na3, leading to 8...Ne4 9.Qd1 Bd6 10.c3 f6 11.Bf4 Bxf4 12.exf4 Nc6 13.Be2 O-O, which wins a bishop for a bishop. [spoiler]This was white's only meaningful blunder, but it cost the game. White was not able to recover and was eventually mated.[/spoiler]

8: ... Nc2+

[image loading]

Moves it out of harm's way and forks White's king and White's rook at a1.

9: Kd1

[image loading]

Moves it out of check.

9: ... Nxa1

[image loading]

Forks White's pawn at a4 and White's knight at b1.

10: c4

[image loading]

Ouch! Leads to 10...Ne4 11.Qc1 Nxf2+ 12.Ke1 Nxh1 13.Nc3 Nc2+ 14.Kd2 Ng3 15.Ne5 Qd6 16.Bf4 Nxf1+ 17.Qxf1, which wins a knight for a rook, a bishop, and a pawn. Much better is Bb5, leading to 10...c6 11.Ne5 Qc7 12.Bd3 Ne4 13.Qe1 Qa5 14.Nd2 Qxa4+ 15.Ke2 Nxd2 16.Qxd2 Bxd3+ 17.Nxd3, which wins a bishop and a knight for a bishop, a knight, and a pawn.

10: ... Qxa4+

[image loading]

Checks White's king.

Additional Commentary: This is where the earlier move Qd7 proved useful.

11: b3

[image loading]

Danger! Hangs the pawn at b3. Leads to 11...Qxb3+ 12.Ke2 Bxb1 13.Bxf6 Bb4 14.Bg5 dxc4 15.Ke1 Be4 16.Be2 Qb1+ 17.Bd1 Bd3 18.Qxb4 Nc2+ 19.Kd2 Qxb4+ 20.Kc1 Nxe3, which wins a bishop and a knight for a queen, a knight, and three pawns. Much better is Ke2, leading to 11...Bxb1 12.Qc1 Ne4 13.Qxb1 Qxc4+ 14.Kd1 Qb3+ 15.Kc1 Nxf2 16.Be2 Qa4 17.b3 Nxb3+ 18.Kb2 Nxh1 19.Qxh1, which wins a bishop and a knight for a rook, a knight, and three pawns.

11: ... Qxb3+

[image loading]

Checks White's king and creates a passed pawn on a7.

Additional Commentary: It is very important that white moves his king in the correct direction here. He should escape to the right to avoid the queen.

12: Kc1

[image loading]

White gives Black a forced mate opportunity. Much better is Ke2. Kc1 leads to 12...Qxb1# and mate.

12: ... Qxb1#

[image loading]

Checkmates White's king.

Post game analysis: This was weaker than a couple of your other games (hence the short game length). I think you were losing concentration at this point. As you practice more, it becomes easier to spot weak points in your defense that the opponent is targeting. This is the second or third time I caught you with a fork of the king and the rook with my knight, so make sure to watch out for that during games! If you want me to analyze any of our other games let me know. You better hurry if you want to take a win from me though... I just started reading the book Cloud recommended to me :p


****
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
February 02 2009 02:54 GMT
#2
i'll play you!
do you have a uscf rating?
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
February 02 2009 02:55 GMT
#3
On February 02 2009 11:54 Saracen wrote:
i'll play you!
do you have a uscf rating?

Not yet, although I just registered with them. I don't yet know what local events are available to me...

The chessmaster rating may not be a very accurate representation of what my uscf rating would be, but it took me a week to get myself even with the 1000 rating players, and since then I walked up to almost 1100 on their system.

But I'm pretty weak as I'm still learning some of the basics of proper play.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
February 02 2009 02:57 GMT
#4
That fork with the knight really hurt.
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
February 02 2009 02:58 GMT
#5
Cool, where are you playing these games? I'd love to join in. In the USCF system my rating was about 1150 two years ago, haven't played much since then.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
February 02 2009 03:00 GMT
#6
We played on chess.com using their live play feature. I doubt that's the best place but it's really quick and easy to register and get started. I've used yahoo chess in the past also. If anyone has chessmaster grandmaster edition then I can play online with them using the online feature for that software, I suppose.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
CompX
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada216 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 03:06:43
February 02 2009 03:05 GMT
#7
where do u find the chess site, I wanna play


edit: said this a little bit late
man, I am tiny the stone GIANT!! ┌██┘
liger13
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1060 Posts
February 02 2009 03:12 GMT
#8
lol... i have an old DS Chess game... i might pull that out and see if ive gotten any worse
i wonder if it has wifi... if it does ill play any1 else with it
I feel like pwning noobs
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
February 02 2009 03:15 GMT
#9
micro chess game gogogo
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
overpool
Profile Joined April 2008
United States191 Posts
February 02 2009 03:16 GMT
#10
Nice analysis of a somewhat poor game by white; he's got to learn to see those Kc2 forks coming. In addition, I would recommend a more basic king's pawn -> 2 knight's opening for a player of that level.

If anyone's interested in playing free online chess without registering, check out instantchess.com or some online flash version. However, it's important to note that skill levels vary drastically on those free, non-registration chess applications.
yay i love tl events
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
February 02 2009 03:24 GMT
#11
On February 02 2009 12:16 overpool wrote:
Nice analysis of a somewhat poor game by white; he's got to learn to see those Kc2 forks coming. In addition, I would recommend a more basic king's pawn -> 2 knight's opening for a player of that level.

If anyone's interested in playing free online chess without registering, check out instantchess.com or some online flash version. However, it's important to note that skill levels vary drastically on those free, non-registration chess applications.

Yeah I commented to him that it's interesting he chose the queen's pawn, but he said he didn't know the difference. I guess it's good advice for him to start with the King's pawn (I always do).
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Abydos1
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States832 Posts
February 02 2009 03:29 GMT
#12
I'd be willing to play sometime too.
"...perhaps the greatest joy possible in Starcraft, being accused of being a maphacker" - Day[9]
Base
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States36 Posts
February 02 2009 03:30 GMT
#13
I'm interested in playing and learning. Let me know how/when you want to play if you're interested.
Abydos1
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States832 Posts
February 02 2009 03:31 GMT
#14
FYI here's a link to the game on chess.com if you want to step through it:
http://www.chess.com/livechess/game.html?id=14555624#
"...perhaps the greatest joy possible in Starcraft, being accused of being a maphacker" - Day[9]
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
February 02 2009 03:37 GMT
#15
I'll play some games with people, but only blitz or (preferrably) bullet.
huameng
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States1133 Posts
February 02 2009 03:37 GMT
#16
I like me some chess too, I'm like 1800 USCF if anyone's interested in playing on ICC
skating
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
February 02 2009 03:39 GMT
#17
On February 02 2009 12:37 HnR)Insane wrote:
I'll play some games with people, but only blitz or (preferrably) bullet.

Out of curiosity why do you prefer such high speed games?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
SOB_Maj_Brian
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States522 Posts
February 02 2009 03:45 GMT
#18
I love blitz, its like playing starcraft on fastest versus playing it on just fast. Well maybe that isn't the best analogy, but it utilizes different skills than in long games. Blitz games (between equally skilled people), I find tend to be more tactical, where sacrifices are more likely to happen, and more aggressive play happens.
J_J777
Profile Joined August 2007
United States22 Posts
February 02 2009 03:46 GMT
#19
i hate blitz it's just not for me. idk how good the white player was because there were quite a few tactics that white could've fallen into not directly but potential (7. Bb4 skewering the queen and king but there is c3 to block but potential it could've been dangerous)
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
February 02 2009 03:49 GMT
#20
I'll donk it up if anyone wants to play chess. I used to be quite good but haven't played in years.

My username is T62
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
February 02 2009 03:49 GMT
#21
On February 02 2009 12:39 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2009 12:37 HnR)Insane wrote:
I'll play some games with people, but only blitz or (preferrably) bullet.

Out of curiosity why do you prefer such high speed games?

micro gogo i'm online
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 03:57:47
February 02 2009 03:56 GMT
#22
Sweet I love chess. Been playing it since I was 5. I own most everyone I know in RL but I don't play regularly and never really took the time to get competitive vs the masses.

Chess is a very fun game. It's perfectly balanced, super competitive and intense. (Hmm where have I heard this before)
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
February 02 2009 03:57 GMT
#23
Micronesia

I'll play some 10minute or 15minute games with you if you want.

I guess I won't mind higher time controls but I have a terrible habit of playing quickly so even if it was game in 30 i'd only use 10minutes or so T_T
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
February 02 2009 03:58 GMT
#24
C4 lost the game imo.
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 03:59:04
February 02 2009 03:58 GMT
#25
On February 02 2009 12:56 LuckyFool wrote:
Sweet I love chess. Been playing it since I was 5. I own most everyone I know in RL but I don't play regularly and never really took the time to get competitive vs the masses.

Chess is a very fun game. It's perfectly balanced, super competitive and intense. (Hmm where have I heard this before)


I'd argue the "perfectly" part.

White imo has a slight advantage and black should be happy equalizing to a draw. But silly arguements aside I agree with you completely. :D
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
February 02 2009 04:02 GMT
#26
yeah i agree too, white will have a slight win % over black.
talismania
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States2364 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 04:16:13
February 02 2009 04:13 GMT
#27
if you want to get more advanced stuff, I recommend Kingscrusher on youtube... he does some great annotation of current and classic games, along with some opening system analysis.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kingscrusher

edit: two of my favorites:



SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
February 02 2009 04:15 GMT
#28
Kingscrusher is great. I've been a subscribe for quite some time. :p
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 04:45:55
February 02 2009 04:16 GMT
#29
Chess used to be one of my passions.. I don't know how or why I lost it, but I am still sad about it; I'll play you a few games one night.
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
February 02 2009 04:25 GMT
#30
http://www.staredit.net/files/528/
Now you can own pubbies in chess too!
That map can't detect checks/checkmates though
nAi.PrOtOsS
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada784 Posts
February 02 2009 04:26 GMT
#31
hmm this blog makes me want to play chess again. Although I am not very good..
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 04:30:19
February 02 2009 04:29 GMT
#32
I'm game if anybody wants to play.

A good way to improve at chess is to use the Chessmaster software (which you seem to by using)

Josh Waiztkin has some really nice tutorials on chess psychology!
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
February 02 2009 04:31 GMT
#33
On February 02 2009 13:29 Athos wrote:
I'm game if anybody wants to play.

A good way to improve at chess is to use the Chessmaster software (which you seem to by using)

Josh Waiztkin has some really nice tutorials on chess psychology!

Agreed. His stuff is very helpful but I'm also reading "Logical Chess" by Chernev as Cloud suggested.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 04:36:25
February 02 2009 04:35 GMT
#34
Black is a solid player, no real surprises from him. White seems at a significantly lower play level. Rook pawns moves were both bad and the fork was obvious.

Nothing too surprising in this game. Just a good player playing someone who isn't good.

BTW, lets play a game.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
February 02 2009 05:10 GMT
#35
On February 02 2009 12:39 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2009 12:37 HnR)Insane wrote:
I'll play some games with people, but only blitz or (preferrably) bullet.

Out of curiosity why do you prefer such high speed games?

I find long games boring, I prefer the fast action of high speed games. I like there to be a tradeoff between making more optimal moves versus using less time but attempting to flag your opponent.
ChoboCop
Profile Joined July 2004
United States954 Posts
February 02 2009 05:22 GMT
#36
It was really hard to read this/review this game as a chess instructor...

The game isn't really even worth sharing to ANY level player because it's on such a LOW level. We're talking like 400 vs 600 USCF...

Let's talk about something better chess related... like how if you're shitty and want to get better go download/buy CT-ART 3.0 and work on your tactics. Until you're better than 90% of every other player on earth (~1600USCF) you really shouldn't work on much more than your tactics.
http://www.chesscentral.com/software/ct-arts-chess-tactics.htm

The white player should really get a lashing if he actually wanted advice on this game. Even a rank novice gets what went on in this one.
Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered.
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
February 02 2009 05:22 GMT
#37
Wait...you can castle with either rook? I thought it was only the one further away...

My roommates and I play chess...we've started keeping count of wins and losses. haha.
Hello
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 05:25:31
February 02 2009 05:25 GMT
#38
On February 02 2009 14:22 ChoboCop wrote:
It was really hard to read this/review this game as a chess instructor...

The game isn't really even worth sharing to ANY level player because it's on such a LOW level. We're talking like 400 vs 600 USCF...

Let's talk about something better chess related... like how if you're shitty and want to get better go download/buy CT-ART 3.0 and work on your tactics. Until you're better than 90% of every other player on earth (~1600USCF) you really shouldn't work on much more than your tactics.
http://www.chesscentral.com/software/ct-arts-chess-tactics.htm

The white player should really get a lashing if he actually wanted advice on this game. Even a rank novice gets what went on in this one.

Er I think you are being unfair. Everyone is a noob at some point.

PH: yeah you can castle either way. The kingside castle is the short castle (more common) and the queenside castle is the long castle.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
ChoboCop
Profile Joined July 2004
United States954 Posts
February 02 2009 05:29 GMT
#39
http://www.zimbeckchess.com/

This is my friend's problems site. He is from Columbus, OH and is regularly corresponded by grandmasters for his problems.

He is the foremost expert in the world on the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit.

Anyone that wants to crack some virtual wood lemme know.
Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered.
TaP.Nuada
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States428 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 05:48:22
February 02 2009 05:31 GMT
#40
On February 02 2009 12:49 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2009 12:39 micronesia wrote:
On February 02 2009 12:37 HnR)Insane wrote:
I'll play some games with people, but only blitz or (preferrably) bullet.

Out of curiosity why do you prefer such high speed games?

micro gogo i'm online

High speed games force players to think quickly when mid game hits and rely less on their endless bounds of memorized counters and openings.

IMO competitive chess has really changed and I used to be a big chess fanatic but it's just not what it used to be. Players with no intuition can still win against better players with opening knowledge and counters alone.

And it's not similar to saying "you memorize starcraft bo's same kind of thing" because it isn't.

I stopped playing chess when it moved from a game of intuition/foresight to a game of memorization. Don't get me wrong, there are still loads of intuition and foresight, it just seems to make more of a difference in advanced levels of play.

On February 02 2009 12:56 LuckyFool wrote:
Sweet I love chess. Been playing it since I was 5. I own most everyone I know in RL but I don't play regularly and never really took the time to get competitive vs the masses.

Chess is a very fun game. It's perfectly balanced, super competitive and intense. (Hmm where have I heard this before)

It's not perfectly balanced, how can it be, it's turn based (someone has to go first). So it's like only getting to make your 5th worker after your opponent already made his.

Scheduling chess tournaments can be difficult sometimes because you need to make players alternate colors due to the imbalance in the game.

Wikipedia article on white's advantage in chess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess
http://binarybeast.com/ Free Tournament Hosting!
Duke
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States1106 Posts
February 02 2009 06:30 GMT
#41
i play on chess.com Live, you can search Navilus @ http://www.chess.com/home/game_archive.html for my games and see how i sometimes hang pieces but when im not being a blind dumbass i can actually play a good game. i also just learned about En passant, i ended up winning the game but damn that gave me a big WTF

id like to play with anyone from TL, novice to advanced, just leave me a pm(with AIM i guess? not sure how to organize games on that site, if there's a /whisper system or whathaveyou), note I'm in eastern US for time zone conflicts.

if you're amazing you'd likely whoop me a few games until it will get interesting
IMlemon
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Lithuania296 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 06:44:44
February 02 2009 06:42 GMT
#42
I'd not mind playing a few games, seeing how I became pretty damn rusty lately. I was 2000 ELO player, but now I can't really play for that rating now. Dont really play chess online, but if someone up for some games they can hit me up on MSN (lemon@freemail.lt).
My future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.
ChoboCop
Profile Joined July 2004
United States954 Posts
February 02 2009 06:51 GMT
#43
On February 02 2009 14:31 TaP.Nuada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2009 12:49 Caller wrote:
On February 02 2009 12:39 micronesia wrote:
On February 02 2009 12:37 HnR)Insane wrote:
I'll play some games with people, but only blitz or (preferrably) bullet.

Out of curiosity why do you prefer such high speed games?

micro gogo i'm online

High speed games force players to think quickly when mid game hits and rely less on their endless bounds of memorized counters and openings.

IMO competitive chess has really changed and I used to be a big chess fanatic but it's just not what it used to be. Players with no intuition can still win against better players with opening knowledge and counters alone.

And it's not similar to saying "you memorize starcraft bo's same kind of thing" because it isn't.

I stopped playing chess when it moved from a game of intuition/foresight to a game of memorization. Don't get me wrong, there are still loads of intuition and foresight, it just seems to make more of a difference in advanced levels of play.

Show nested quote +
On February 02 2009 12:56 LuckyFool wrote:
Sweet I love chess. Been playing it since I was 5. I own most everyone I know in RL but I don't play regularly and never really took the time to get competitive vs the masses.

Chess is a very fun game. It's perfectly balanced, super competitive and intense. (Hmm where have I heard this before)

It's not perfectly balanced, how can it be, it's turn based (someone has to go first). So it's like only getting to make your 5th worker after your opponent already made his.

Scheduling chess tournaments can be difficult sometimes because you need to make players alternate colors due to the imbalance in the game.

Wikipedia article on white's advantage in chess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess


You're just way way off. You're viewing chess in a very miopic prism.

Let me be succinct...
Blitz chess is inferior for the purpose of strategy -- it makes the tactics artificial to the clock.

The reason the Chess bonjwa's are bonjwa's is because of their incredible understanding and calculation, all levels are a reflection of understanding + calculation... you seem to want to only play on understanding and not calculation.

You say inferior players win with opening traps... yes, sometimes they do. In practice though they usually attain winning positions and then falter. You have to give inferior players time to make inferior choices... (very sage advice in chess) Anyone who has played chess competitively on any level understands that the game is an excruciating struggle.

Your thesis is essentially that in today's Chess game (memorizing good positions) > (other aspects of chess) such that those with superior (other aspects of chess) cannot seem to topple those that (memorize good positions). What about what it takes to win good positions... you're just dismissing so much about the competition of Chess.

I think you need to further explore how chess knowledge is created/expounded, the trappings of competition, and your definition of 'memory' as it relates to them.
Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered.
kefkalives
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Australia1272 Posts
February 02 2009 07:33 GMT
#44
What cements my love of go is that the game has almost a 50% win rate for both white and black (White gets compensated 6.5 points [7.5 under area scoring] for taking the second move). this rule is called komi.
prOxi.bOn ; \\ What makes most people feel happy/Leads us headlong into harm.
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-02 08:31:57
February 02 2009 08:20 GMT
#45
I just played the greatest game ever.... here it is:

http://www.chessvideos.tv/chess-game-replayer.php?id=12470

I'm white. Yes, I know I suck, but apparently he sucks more haha.
The moral of the story is: when you're ahead, simplify.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
February 02 2009 11:43 GMT
#46
On February 02 2009 16:33 kefkalives wrote:
What cements my love of go is that the game has almost a 50% win rate for both white and black (White gets compensated 6.5 points [7.5 under area scoring] for taking the second move). this rule is called komi.

Yeah this is good since it's statistically balanced... although you can't really implement it in chess.

On February 02 2009 17:20 motbob wrote:
I just played the greatest game ever.... here it is:

http://www.chessvideos.tv/chess-game-replayer.php?id=12470

I'm white. Yes, I know I suck, but apparently he sucks more haha.
The moral of the story is: when you're ahead, simplify.

Wow what a weird game hahaha.

When up, trade pieces! Agree.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
TaP.Nuada
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States428 Posts
February 02 2009 16:07 GMT
#47
On February 02 2009 15:51 ChoboCop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2009 14:31 TaP.Nuada wrote:
On February 02 2009 12:49 Caller wrote:
On February 02 2009 12:39 micronesia wrote:
On February 02 2009 12:37 HnR)Insane wrote:
I'll play some games with people, but only blitz or (preferrably) bullet.

Out of curiosity why do you prefer such high speed games?

micro gogo i'm online

High speed games force players to think quickly when mid game hits and rely less on their endless bounds of memorized counters and openings.

IMO competitive chess has really changed and I used to be a big chess fanatic but it's just not what it used to be. Players with no intuition can still win against better players with opening knowledge and counters alone.

And it's not similar to saying "you memorize starcraft bo's same kind of thing" because it isn't.

I stopped playing chess when it moved from a game of intuition/foresight to a game of memorization. Don't get me wrong, there are still loads of intuition and foresight, it just seems to make more of a difference in advanced levels of play.

On February 02 2009 12:56 LuckyFool wrote:
Sweet I love chess. Been playing it since I was 5. I own most everyone I know in RL but I don't play regularly and never really took the time to get competitive vs the masses.

Chess is a very fun game. It's perfectly balanced, super competitive and intense. (Hmm where have I heard this before)

It's not perfectly balanced, how can it be, it's turn based (someone has to go first). So it's like only getting to make your 5th worker after your opponent already made his.

Scheduling chess tournaments can be difficult sometimes because you need to make players alternate colors due to the imbalance in the game.

Wikipedia article on white's advantage in chess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess


You're just way way off. You're viewing chess in a very miopic prism.

Let me be succinct...
Blitz chess is inferior for the purpose of strategy -- it makes the tactics artificial to the clock.

The reason the Chess bonjwa's are bonjwa's is because of their incredible understanding and calculation, all levels are a reflection of understanding + calculation... you seem to want to only play on understanding and not calculation.

You say inferior players win with opening traps... yes, sometimes they do. In practice though they usually attain winning positions and then falter. You have to give inferior players time to make inferior choices... (very sage advice in chess) Anyone who has played chess competitively on any level understands that the game is an excruciating struggle.

Your thesis is essentially that in today's Chess game (memorizing good positions) > (other aspects of chess) such that those with superior (other aspects of chess) cannot seem to topple those that (memorize good positions). What about what it takes to win good positions... you're just dismissing so much about the competition of Chess.

I think you need to further explore how chess knowledge is created/expounded, the trappings of competition, and your definition of 'memory' as it relates to them.

I think you misunderstand.

I'm not saying memorizing openings/counters = 100% win. I'm saying it's becoming more important to have incredible knowledge and have a very large amount of openings/counters memorized because the understanding+calculation you talk about has reached such a high level. Strategy for chess games isn't really developed during the game anymore as it's been studied so much that players already know the best moves in many given situations.
http://binarybeast.com/ Free Tournament Hosting!
Durak
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada3684 Posts
February 02 2009 17:33 GMT
#48
On February 03 2009 01:07 TaP.Nuada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2009 15:51 ChoboCop wrote:
On February 02 2009 14:31 TaP.Nuada wrote:
On February 02 2009 12:49 Caller wrote:
On February 02 2009 12:39 micronesia wrote:
On February 02 2009 12:37 HnR)Insane wrote:
I'll play some games with people, but only blitz or (preferrably) bullet.

Out of curiosity why do you prefer such high speed games?

micro gogo i'm online

High speed games force players to think quickly when mid game hits and rely less on their endless bounds of memorized counters and openings.

IMO competitive chess has really changed and I used to be a big chess fanatic but it's just not what it used to be. Players with no intuition can still win against better players with opening knowledge and counters alone.

And it's not similar to saying "you memorize starcraft bo's same kind of thing" because it isn't.

I stopped playing chess when it moved from a game of intuition/foresight to a game of memorization. Don't get me wrong, there are still loads of intuition and foresight, it just seems to make more of a difference in advanced levels of play.

On February 02 2009 12:56 LuckyFool wrote:
Sweet I love chess. Been playing it since I was 5. I own most everyone I know in RL but I don't play regularly and never really took the time to get competitive vs the masses.

Chess is a very fun game. It's perfectly balanced, super competitive and intense. (Hmm where have I heard this before)

It's not perfectly balanced, how can it be, it's turn based (someone has to go first). So it's like only getting to make your 5th worker after your opponent already made his.

Scheduling chess tournaments can be difficult sometimes because you need to make players alternate colors due to the imbalance in the game.

Wikipedia article on white's advantage in chess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess


You're just way way off. You're viewing chess in a very miopic prism.

Let me be succinct...
Blitz chess is inferior for the purpose of strategy -- it makes the tactics artificial to the clock.

The reason the Chess bonjwa's are bonjwa's is because of their incredible understanding and calculation, all levels are a reflection of understanding + calculation... you seem to want to only play on understanding and not calculation.

You say inferior players win with opening traps... yes, sometimes they do. In practice though they usually attain winning positions and then falter. You have to give inferior players time to make inferior choices... (very sage advice in chess) Anyone who has played chess competitively on any level understands that the game is an excruciating struggle.

Your thesis is essentially that in today's Chess game (memorizing good positions) > (other aspects of chess) such that those with superior (other aspects of chess) cannot seem to topple those that (memorize good positions). What about what it takes to win good positions... you're just dismissing so much about the competition of Chess.

I think you need to further explore how chess knowledge is created/expounded, the trappings of competition, and your definition of 'memory' as it relates to them.

I think you misunderstand.

I'm not saying memorizing openings/counters = 100% win. I'm saying it's becoming more important to have incredible knowledge and have a very large amount of openings/counters memorized because the understanding+calculation you talk about has reached such a high level. Strategy for chess games isn't really developed during the game anymore as it's been studied so much that players already know the best moves in many given situations.


I disagree. You don't need to memorize up to the 30th move for every opening and variation to be a strong competitor. Memorizing common openings is helpful for saving time and that's all. You'll rarely encounter the same board up to the 15th move unless you're both doing really standard openings. Any variation from what you've memorized requires a complete re-analysis of the situation and if you keep playing by memory you'll lose.

I was in the top 3 in my province four years in a row and I only know 4-5 moves into 4-5 openings. I simply thought really quickly. I played against lots of people who simply memorized an opening and variations but didn't actually understand the purpose of each piece. They would crumble easily after their opening didn't get them up materially.

I think it's more important to have good strategic insight into the game rather than experience.

Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
February 02 2009 21:25 GMT
#49
wtf? How did I not see this for 3 whole freaking pages!?!?!? Thanks for giving me some knowledge in chess Micronesia. Next time you won't be so forutnate that i'm a newb!
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
February 02 2009 21:36 GMT
#50
I've just realized that I'm only a decent player when there is no (or a very long) time limit. Just knowing that my turn is being timed makes me really nervous. :S I guess it's something you have to get used to.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
February 02 2009 21:40 GMT
#51
On February 03 2009 06:36 3clipse wrote:
I've just realized that I'm only a decent player when there is no (or a very long) time limit. Just knowing that my turn is being timed makes me really nervous. :S I guess it's something you have to get used to.

In my experience you get over this pretty quickly. When I first started playing vs the computer a few months ago with a timer, even if it was a pretty big timer it messed me up... but now the timer doesn't bother me at all. I play 10 minutes +5 seconds per move without feeling pressured most of the time.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
February 02 2009 21:52 GMT
#52
losing weight and learning to play chess?

surely that is not possible.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
February 02 2009 21:55 GMT
#53
On February 03 2009 06:52 gg_hertzz wrote:
losing weight and learning to play chess?

surely that is not possible.

Er I'm not really trying to lose weight.

Are you saying that all chess players are fat...?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
February 02 2009 23:19 GMT
#54
i registered as Starcraftrice on chess.com
let's play!
gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
February 03 2009 07:39 GMT
#55
On February 03 2009 06:55 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2009 06:52 gg_hertzz wrote:
losing weight and learning to play chess?

surely that is not possible.

Er I'm not really trying to lose weight.

Are you saying that all chess players are fat...?


are you the guy that posted about trying to drop 10 lbs or something? or am i thinking of another guy?>
Divinek
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada4045 Posts
February 03 2009 07:59 GMT
#56
Oh man going through those pictures that forked seemed destined to happen. I was hoping it wouldn't because it was so painful looking.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Oh goodness me, FOX tv where do you get your sight? Can't you keep track, the puck is black. That's why the ice is white.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
February 03 2009 11:40 GMT
#57
On February 03 2009 16:39 gg_hertzz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2009 06:55 micronesia wrote:
On February 03 2009 06:52 gg_hertzz wrote:
losing weight and learning to play chess?

surely that is not possible.

Er I'm not really trying to lose weight.

Are you saying that all chess players are fat...?


are you the guy that posted about trying to drop 10 lbs or something? or am i thinking of another guy?>

ER no. I did make a blog about possibly getting an exercise bike... but not because I need to lose weight really.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
IMlemon
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Lithuania296 Posts
February 10 2009 14:33 GMT
#58
On February 03 2009 06:40 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2009 06:36 3clipse wrote:
I've just realized that I'm only a decent player when there is no (or a very long) time limit. Just knowing that my turn is being timed makes me really nervous. :S I guess it's something you have to get used to.

In my experience you get over this pretty quickly. When I first started playing vs the computer a few months ago with a timer, even if it was a pretty big timer it messed me up... but now the timer doesn't bother me at all. I play 10 minutes +5 seconds per move without feeling pressured most of the time.


Bump .

Dont know if you sir have participated in real tournaments (IE, not online stuff which kinda sucks...), but time screws up so many players there. Im not even talking about blitz, but rapid (30 minutes for those of you who dont know). It would seem like its plenty of time, but all it takes is decent opponent and there's a fair chance it will come down to serious clock smashing .
My future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-10 21:09:26
February 10 2009 21:09 GMT
#59
On February 10 2009 23:33 IMlemon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2009 06:40 micronesia wrote:
On February 03 2009 06:36 3clipse wrote:
I've just realized that I'm only a decent player when there is no (or a very long) time limit. Just knowing that my turn is being timed makes me really nervous. :S I guess it's something you have to get used to.

In my experience you get over this pretty quickly. When I first started playing vs the computer a few months ago with a timer, even if it was a pretty big timer it messed me up... but now the timer doesn't bother me at all. I play 10 minutes +5 seconds per move without feeling pressured most of the time.


Bump .

Dont know if you sir have participated in real tournaments (IE, not online stuff which kinda sucks...), but time screws up so many players there. Im not even talking about blitz, but rapid (30 minutes for those of you who dont know). It would seem like its plenty of time, but all it takes is decent opponent and there's a fair chance it will come down to serious clock smashing .

Yeah I can imagine. I might play in rated games IRL someday and then the fun begins.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
February 10 2009 21:40 GMT
#60
On February 11 2009 06:09 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2009 23:33 IMlemon wrote:
On February 03 2009 06:40 micronesia wrote:
On February 03 2009 06:36 3clipse wrote:
I've just realized that I'm only a decent player when there is no (or a very long) time limit. Just knowing that my turn is being timed makes me really nervous. :S I guess it's something you have to get used to.

In my experience you get over this pretty quickly. When I first started playing vs the computer a few months ago with a timer, even if it was a pretty big timer it messed me up... but now the timer doesn't bother me at all. I play 10 minutes +5 seconds per move without feeling pressured most of the time.


Bump .

Dont know if you sir have participated in real tournaments (IE, not online stuff which kinda sucks...), but time screws up so many players there. Im not even talking about blitz, but rapid (30 minutes for those of you who dont know). It would seem like its plenty of time, but all it takes is decent opponent and there's a fair chance it will come down to serious clock smashing .

Yeah I can imagine. I might play in rated games IRL someday and then the fun begins.

4-4 nub
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24637 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-10 23:11:41
February 10 2009 23:11 GMT
#61
On February 11 2009 06:40 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2009 06:09 micronesia wrote:
On February 10 2009 23:33 IMlemon wrote:
On February 03 2009 06:40 micronesia wrote:
On February 03 2009 06:36 3clipse wrote:
I've just realized that I'm only a decent player when there is no (or a very long) time limit. Just knowing that my turn is being timed makes me really nervous. :S I guess it's something you have to get used to.

In my experience you get over this pretty quickly. When I first started playing vs the computer a few months ago with a timer, even if it was a pretty big timer it messed me up... but now the timer doesn't bother me at all. I play 10 minutes +5 seconds per move without feeling pressured most of the time.


Bump .

Dont know if you sir have participated in real tournaments (IE, not online stuff which kinda sucks...), but time screws up so many players there. Im not even talking about blitz, but rapid (30 minutes for those of you who dont know). It would seem like its plenty of time, but all it takes is decent opponent and there's a fair chance it will come down to serious clock smashing .

Yeah I can imagine. I might play in rated games IRL someday and then the fun begins.

4-4 nub

The tie-breaking game should go on tl. Betgame perhaps?

Live stream with commentary? XD
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
February 11 2009 04:27 GMT
#62
Nice blog micronesia. I'm the level where I know how to play chess, and I generally have beaten my family members and friends who know how to play, but I'm pretty sure you'd beat me pretty easy. I'd still like to play sometime. I haven't played a game of chess in months.
One Page Memory
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Bulgaria2145 Posts
February 11 2009 07:50 GMT
#63
anyone on playchess.com?
Jin Youngsoo before game with Savior: But, I demanded myself (of composure) by saying: Same old, same old - only a Zerg, only a Zerg
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-11 20:23:16
February 11 2009 20:23 GMT
#64
Hey micronesia, it's HelloWorld. I already friended you, but just PM me or something when you want to play a game.

(http://www.chess.com/)
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