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Just to start off, i'm a crappy terran sometimes protoss if it's pvt player, probaby in the high d+ iccup ranking. I'm a 'feel' type of player. I don't follow any build orders and pretty much make shit up as i go along. The only build order I do is maybe 11/rax/12gas/16 factory and then it's pretty much whatever i feel like.
I have no early, mid, or late game strategy, just get expansion, make tons of shit and harass where i can.
But i came across some fantasy replays a couple of months ago and one in particular really stood out. It is clan.by vs [s.g]brave on python where Fantasy goes 2 fact>starport and then harasses like mad. I've seen him do several variations of this on different maps. Sometimes he'll port after 2 facs, sometimes 4 facts.
Anyway I'm in love with Fantasy's TvP style because it's so much fun to watch. And having read how strict progamers are with their build orders and strategies, I decided maybe to have a plan during an actual game.
I didn't practice the build order, just watched it a few times and got the generalities of it. The first P I played was kind of newbie, so even though I was really sloppy I rolled over him. But I can tell that Fantasy's build really focused my strategy, helping me to build more units and to harass just as the strategy was intended.
The second P I played was way way better. I think in 10 games we would probably go 5/5. Anyway he opens with templar rush which i neutralized with 1 fact(mines)>CC. 2 factories and then a starport. From here Fantasy just harassed, macroed, and took third base.
I was surprised by how well Fantasy's strategy worked. My dropship+2tanks managed 31 kills before they were killed, having lasted about 6-7 minutes of life. I was ALWAYS ahead in supply count, usually ahead of my opponent by about 20 supplies. We had several battles, almost all of them won by him, but even when he decimated my army I was still ahead in supply. Eventually my dropship harass and vulture harass pulled me ahead macroed wise and I won.
I think if I play another 100 games I could refine my play where I can be really efficient with it. Right now it's very sloppy because I'm not use to this strategy.
But it has occured to me that following a very strict strategy/build order is completely more efficient than just playing by feel. What I'm saying is obvious to many of you, but I bet there are countless players who are just winging and think that it makes no difference. I beg to differ.
I really suggest what everyone like Artosis and Idra have suggested, and that is to follow one strict strategy over time. I can't believe how much of a difference it is.
 
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United States24805 Posts
My first guess is that the guy that you think you are 50/50 with in normal play is not as good as you think, but it's possible that's wrong and your strategy is actually able to get you an advantage. You can try that build out against random protoss players as much as you want until you get a clearer picture of how much you like it.
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Wanna post the rep? This build sounds interesting
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Belgium6787 Posts
There's something about fantasy's strategies that just makes them so effective
I've been doing the same with his tvz build and it RAPES
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if you want to play the same BO etc over, its strictly repetition repetition repetition. daniel lee has always tried to explain to the viewers that repetition makes a player great, because all will fall in place once you get the hang of it. yes, right now your strategy and bo is sloppy, but overtime, itll be gosu. ^^
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Wait starport after you expand? Hmm, it sounds good vs like dt->arbiter, but most protoss would just go observers to know what you're doing and put them over your factories, where people also usually build starports. So do you proxy the starport or something? Or do you only do this build vs DT?
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my blog post isn't about fantasy or his build, or myself actually. I just wanted to point out that following a strict build order/strategy is better than being creative on the fly. For a guy like me who has never followed a build order or a game plan, I could not believe what a difference it made. I had way more units then what I normally would have and i had a good idea of how the game should pan out.
I'm not saying this build order is great, because it's no better or worse than many TvP build orders out there, that's not my concern. I just wanted to talk about the huge difference between following a plan and not following a plan.
edit: Just go give you an idea of the difference, at about the 10 minute mark, I am normally about 65-70 supply. In the second time I tried fantasy's build order, I was on my way to 90 supply. I viewed several other of my games and almost all of them I would not have had as many units.
For people who are use to winging it on the fly, I suggest you practice your favorite progamer build order and see what a difference it will make.
I'm not sure if I'll start practicing build orders from now on as that's very time consuming to try to perfect your mechanics as well. My thinking is that if more people sat down with a build order and practiced the hell out of it, we could see some significant skill increased in the community.
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United States24805 Posts
It's well known that you can focus and reduce thinking from your play in order to get better (more true at lower levels) but in order to get very good you have to either be intimately familiar with every combination, or be able to think on the spot. When I play soyu, it is like textbook play vs thinking... and he almost always wins by out thinking me on the spot. Not that 'winging' it is necessarily good either, but it's not as simple of an issue as you might be making it out to be.
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On December 30 2008 05:59 Dr.Dragoon wrote:
Wait starport after you expand? Hmm, it sounds good vs like dt->arbiter, but most protoss would just go observers to know what you're doing and put them over your factories, where people also usually build starports. So do you proxy the starport or something? Or do you only do this build vs DT?
he went 2 gates when i scouted him. still no citadel or robotics. When I scouted him again I only saw 2 goons so I assumed that he would be going DTs. But I was following the build order no matter what he went. Perhaps that is the drawback to following a build order so strictly.
But to answer your other question, I put the starport alittle to the back of my base where I knew protosses rarely sent their observers.
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On December 30 2008 05:50 micronesia wrote:
My first guess is that the guy that you think you are 50/50 with in normal play is not as good as you think, but it's possible that's wrong and your strategy is actually able to get you an advantage. You can try that build out against random protoss players as much as you want until you get a clearer picture of how much you like it.
Well he had good stats. And although stats are deceiving, I recognize the style of his play. I also have my own style and having played against his style of protoss I know that I tend to fall behind in mid game against that sort of style. Normally what would happen in that type of game is i would push when he took his third but my push would get decimated and he would get a 4th and by that time it 's too late for me to catch up. That's what happens to me because I usually don't follow a plan.
He may have not been a good protoss b y the traditional sense, but his style was very effective of my normal style.
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On December 30 2008 06:09 micronesia wrote:
It's well known that you can focus and reduce thinking from your play in order to get better (more true at lower levels) but in order to get very good you have to either be intimately familiar with every combination, or be able to think on the spot. When I play soyu, it is like textbook play vs thinking... and he almost always wins by out thinking me on the spot. Not that 'winging' it is necessarily good either, but it's not as simple of an issue as you might be making it out to be.
yes, i agree with you for the most part. Winging it is not necessarily a bad thing, but i believe having a plan and being more mindful of what you want to do at the very beginning and following through with it will produce better results.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Hmm sounds interesting. I've been meaning to reinvent my TvP for a while. Can you post the rep please?
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On December 30 2008 07:01 infinity21 wrote:
Hmm sounds interesting. I've been meaning to reinvent my TvP for a while. Can you post the rep please?
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/replays/14693
some are saying it's flash but hotkey analysis says fantasy.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Thanks 
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Thats a good rep indeed. None of the reps here of (fantasy) match the hotkeys in that rep thats claimed to be fantasy. Im not a hotkey expert but they look remotely like Flash
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On December 30 2008 07:20 arb wrote:Thats a good rep indeed. None of the reps here of (fantasy) match the hotkeys in that rep thats claimed to be fantasy. Im not a hotkey expert but they look remotely like Flash
i matched it against the BO5 series FantasyVsDraco and they match. Flash has 4 for factory while Fantasy has 5 for factory and 4 for CC. Also, the style is is Fantasy.
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aren't you the loser who posted a replay of yourself playing someone else, but you posted as if you were the other guy and asked TL if they thought the guy you played against was a progamer?
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On December 30 2008 07:48 inReacH wrote:
aren't you the loser who posted a replay of yourself playing someone else, but you posted as if you were the other guy and asked TL if they thought the guy you played against was a progamer?
yes, i was that loser. thanks.
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On December 30 2008 07:56 gg_hertzz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 07:48 inReacH wrote:
aren't you the loser who posted a replay of yourself playing someone else, but you posted as if you were the other guy and asked TL if they thought the guy you played against was a progamer?
yes, i was that loser. thanks.
How long ago was that?
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On December 30 2008 07:56 gg_hertzz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 07:48 inReacH wrote:
aren't you the loser who posted a replay of yourself playing someone else, but you posted as if you were the other guy and asked TL if they thought the guy you played against was a progamer?
yes, i was that loser. thanks.
BWhwwhahahahahahahahahhahhahaahahahhahaha
dude
thats the weakest thing Ive ever read
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EPT
