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Poll: Is there such thing as God?
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes
I know there have been topics like this, but I'd like to have this conversation, which is why I've made it a blog. I know this site is incredibly atheistic, but there are a few who have differing views.
I'm an atheist. There is no God. There hasn't been one anywhere that I know of, and word-of-mouth evidence has been lacking credibility. So it seems like, it must have been made up. When I've prayed it has been talking to myself aloud or in my head. That's my best guess. I don't think there is some force that makes miracles happen. There's no reason for me to take any holy text at anything more than face value. So that's it I guess. Pretty boring stuff.
Obviously I am thinking of various Christians as I write this. Ones that will insist that Jesus came back to life and that this was for us in some way, that he can hear us now or, well, whatever, I really don't care. It sounds like nonsense. Or they might say that a particular collection of old writings, translated, are God's perfect words handed to us. God made people write these, and now we got it. Maybe the book even says so inside. But why trust it. If this post said that I was a unicorn who never lies, would that make it true?
IDK. I am aware of all the attempts at proof out there. Or people who are going to say that I can't prove there's no God. You're right in a sense. Only certain things can be proven. If you get specific enough about what you mean by God I'm sure we can say there is as much evidence for him as many other things you don't believe in, and we can just leave it at that. We don't believe in everything that we can't utterly disprove. That's nonsense.
Maybe this blog seems to have no direction. Well here it is. I'm wondering what you smart non-atheists think about all this. Whether you've really tried to hear out the atheist answers. Or whether we are not hearing you and you're frustrated with us. Because it just seems like there's no deity or holy authority of teachings or texts like you seem to think there is. Is it just a kind of "act as if" plus faith, scenerio? Society needs some motivating, guiding authority?
How do you show an atheist like myself, that any part of your religion's claims jive with reality? I'm honestly interested, so let me know. My viewpoint is that we're both here in reality, and we are coming to radically different conclusions about what is and isn't really going on. So please share with me.
 
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I was raised hardcore Christian. I became an atheist (soft position, also known as agnostic) at age 14. I very much advocated atheism for quite a few years, arguing with many religious people, and convincing a few.
Now I loosely identify as an atheist/agnostic.
I am also newly considering the label of Buddhist. Buddhism, for many, is a non-theistic religion.
ABout my views on the universe: I do believe in the importance of faith - faith that the universe will bring us what we need.. faith in the great mystery of it all (giving up the desire to understand and control everything is very important in my view.)
I believe the fundamental property of the universe is awareness - that everything in existence is part of awareness, and awareness takes many different forms. I believe the universe wills itself to exist, and it is dynamic.
I believe in multiplicity of truth, and the possibility for contradictory truths.
I believe in endless re-incarnation, but not in the sense that you have the same characteristics in a future life as you had in this one - but rather the notion that everything is constantly recycled, and that awareness will continually re-emerge in various forms.
It is unimportant to me that others see things the way I do, or that anyone agree with anyone else. All anyone has to go on (religious folks, scientists, you name it) is perception. Rather than force uniformity of perception, I appreciate variety of perception.
Despite my non-scientific outlook, I still identify as an atheist.
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too bored to write anything of significance here, I just wanted to rant about the poll. your blog title reads "i'm an atheist. are you??" so i say cool, then click and see the poll with "yes" and "no" answers, so responding to the title i immediately click on "yes" since I'm an atheist, just to see that the real poll question is "is there god?" -_-
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Its kind of confusing that you have a question in the title and a different question for the poll, each of which would have different answers. (ie, yes->no and no->yes)
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Also, a clarification: atheism is not necessarily the claim that there is NO God. It is, in its broadest form, a LACK of belief in gods. In its broadest form, atheism is synonymous with agnosticism. There are "strong position" atheists that deny the possibility of God. This is sometimes called "strong atheism."
Your poll seems to assume strong atheism. As such, I cannot answer your question, as there is no "I don't know if there is a god" answer. It leaves no room for ignorance, just faith in God or faith that there is no God. You should add a 3rd option, at least.
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I don't understand who or what you are clarifying for. I am aware of those who define the terminology that way, but I don't want this topic to be about that. We know what is thought when someone says "atheist"
inky, if the poll was "is there such thing as fairies" would you be unable to answer it?
I intentionally left out such an option because I don't want people bickering over whether they "know" or not. Come on people. Do staplers exist? How about magic staplers? Does three-headed manga George W. Bush exist? Do you really have to say "I don't know"?
Poll: Is there such a thing as The Flying Spaghetti Monster?
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes
(Vote): I don't know if there is The Flying Spaghetti Monster
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I was going to write a lengthy post, but I don't have the right words for it. Basically, I believe in God but who am I to force that belief upon others, or allow others to force their belief upon me?
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On December 11 2007 04:32 ilovezil wrote:
I was going to write a lengthy post, but I don't have the right words for it. Basically, I believe in God but who am I to force that belief upon others, or allow others to force their belief upon me?
Do you think the right words are possible? I want to understand how you think God exists. What are you talking about when you say God, and what leads you to this belief? Can we retrace your steps and achieve it as well? etc.
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Luggy: I was clarifying the definition for anyone who cares. I think it is a useful clarification as it gets us thinking past a black and white framework.
As to your question, if the poll was structured the same as this one, then I would be unable to answer it. I do not know whether there are fairies or not, so my answer to the question "are there such a thing as fairies?" is "I don't know."
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I'm not an atheist, however I don't believe in christ...actually I don't have a firm set of beliefs.
I would call myself agnostic.
I also somewhat believe in re-incarnation and souls continuing from existence to existence.
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Also, given the title of your post, my brief discussion of atheism is useful in order to clarify who technically can be considered an atheist or not, or at least allow for that discussion.
As I said, I consider myself an atheist (a = without. theism = godbelief. a-theism = without god belief), but given the way you set up your poll, I probably would not be considered an atheist.
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If you can't say whether God is make-believe or not, or even whether fairies are, come on man... Is Santa Claus real too maybe?
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Luggy, is it your intention to have a friendly, intelligent discussion, or to belittle and disrespect those who do not see things your way? If the latter, please let me know - I am only interested in the former.
Perhaps somewhere in the universe, there is a Santa Clause. And perhaps there are fairies too.
Keep in mind that your preconceptions of what is possible and not possible constitute a form of bias.
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On December 11 2007 04:36 lugggy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2007 04:32 ilovezil wrote:
I was going to write a lengthy post, but I don't have the right words for it. Basically, I believe in God but who am I to force that belief upon others, or allow others to force their belief upon me?
Do you think the right words are possible? I want to understand how you think God exists. What are you talking about when you say God, and what leads you to this belief? Can we retrace your steps and achieve it as well? etc.
Well, I'll start by saying that I believe in an omnipotent and omniscient being that governs this universe.
What led me to this belief?
I'm sure my Christian upbringing had much to do with it, but that is not the sole reason why I believe. As I'd said before, I find it hard to come up with the proper words. In summary, the most damning evidence you can find to learn that God exists is by actually reaching for him, by actively seeking his presence. Too many times, I asked God "are you there?" and too many times, I failed. I suppose my faith can be best described as confused, but persistent. Even though I've been denied the truth I was seeking so many times when I tried to find God, I never quite gave up. I'm a stubborn guy, you see. Even now, I'm still searching for the whole truth; not just the question of "does God exist" anymore, but...the "big picture", if you will.
If I can come up with better words later, I'll edit my post accordingly. But as I stated, the most convincing evidence that God exists is by a one-on-one relationship. I never considered myself an eloquent and quick-to-thought person, so that's the best I can do currently. I've come to respect both religious and non-religious people earnestly; we each have our own stories. Sure, we can try to convince each other of our beliefs, but as you can see, the result so far is the everlasting religion vs science war. Those who can carry out such a seemingly impossible task of understandingly and patiently coming to accept the other's belief is a virtue humans have yet to learn...
That's all I have to say for now. I'll edit with a more substantiating(?) post later if I can come up with it. Oh, and what exactly are your intentions with this blog post, if I may ask?
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Luggy, in the same way like Richard Dawkins, likes to look down upon people who don't believe PURELY in "scientific" reasoning, whatever that means.
It seems to me like these new "humanists" or whatever you call them are like a religion of their own, without actually believing in a god, but in science rather.
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Jens, I won't be too quick to put Luggy in the category of atheists you mention (though I am starting to suspect...), but I will agree strongly that there is such a category. I am seeing much more intolerance from atheists lately, and to a degree it is understandable - many atheists feel under attack from religious folks, and historically much evil has been done to non-believers by the religious.
But intolerance is a problem regardless of what group holds the intolerant beliefs. And yes, I think many atheists do take their ideas to a religious extreme.
No matter what we believe, what is called for, especially today, is tolerance, compassion, and cooperation.
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On December 11 2007 04:44 nA.Inky wrote:
Luggy, is it your intention to have a friendly, intelligent discussion, or to belittle and disrespect those who do not see things your way? If the latter, please let me know - I am only interested in the former.
Perhaps somewhere in the universe, there is a Santa Clause. And perhaps there are fairies too.
Keep in mind that your preconceptions of what is possible and not possible constitute a form of bias.
I think this is friendly, intelligent discussion. In common speech people are able to say what is make believe, what exists and doesn't. That doesn't mean they know 100% and can prove it. For instance we can all say right now there's no living gummy bear circuses on Mars. We can all do it. Doesn't mean it's a law, it's just what we say. But you're saying you can't, that you have to say "I don't know" to everything. Fine, we don't really know much. Do we really know that you exist? That your name is really yours? etc. In that sense sure "we don't know", but when people say that they know Santa Claus is made up, and they say they know what their name is, they aren't completely wrong either, and in that sense I think people can say whether God is real, or make believe. Sure no one "knows" 100% about claims about beings that by their very definition are impossible to "know." But what do you think? You have to say "I don't know" to all of them? and you don't find this a little bit ridiculous? "Maybe there is a Santa Claus", okay but do you believe there is one? Do you believe there isn't one? Are you perfectly in the middle? What if I asked you whether the Sun will rise tomorrow? Would you have to say "I don't know" too? Because we really don't know what will happen do we... Or let's say I flip a coin two million times. Will it be heads every single time? Is it wrong to say "no"?
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Ilovezil - your answer strikes me as valid. I think many scientific thinkers and atheists wish to cram things into a particular category of knowing and thinking. But who is to say faith and intuition are not valid ways of approaching life? The problem is that faith and intuition cannot be reconciled with rational thought. BEcause so many atheists, and presumably all scientists, embrace rational thought as The One True Way, they often ridicule and dismiss knowledge and understanding that are arrived at by other means.
In my view, there is no need to reconcile faith and rational thought - both have their place. If you arrive at your position through faith, it is enough to say just that.
I think it is important for theists and non-theists to be open minded and continually seek wisdom and truth.
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On December 11 2007 05:00 nA.Inky wrote:
Jens, I won't be too quick to put Luggy in the category of atheists you mention (though I am starting to suspect...), but I will agree strongly that there is such a category. I am seeing much more intolerance from atheists lately, and to a degree it is understandable - many atheists feel under attack from religious folks, and historically much evil has been done to non-believers by the religious.
But intolerance is a problem regardless of what group holds the intolerant beliefs. And yes, I think many atheists do take their ideas to a religious extreme.
No matter what we believe, what is called for, especially today, is tolerance, compassion, and cooperation.
Yea, I can see how non-religious people perhaps don't wanna be a part of religious activities and don't want their local church to sponsor whatever local happenings but like you say I think their intolerance is sometimes intolerable.
Many atheists seem to be more zealous than hardcore christians, and in a way atheists are merely trying to spread their "teachings" in a quite fundementalist(ic) way, just like any religion.
Anyways, I'm not too thrilled about church either, and even worse the people who believe in god often are overly nice which makes me suspicious.
Basically I wanna have my own beliefs (whatever those are) and not have anything forced down my throat.
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EPT
