• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:32
CET 17:32
KST 01:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Clem wins HomeStory Cup 285HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2RSL Season 4 announced for March-April7Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Clem wins HomeStory Cup 28 HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report
Brood War
General
StarCraft player reflex TE scores [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? 2024 BoxeR's birthday message Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Quickbooks Payroll Service Official Guide Quickbooks Customer Service Official Guide
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1357 users

Evolution

Blogs > azndsh
Post a Reply
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-10 06:08:05
September 10 2007 05:54 GMT
#1
I was watching the Proleague All-star games, and the difference in skill made a pretty big impression on me.

In particular, compare the games (T)BoxeR vs (Z)YellOw and (T)Iris vs (Z)GGPlay. Both were TvZ, and the Terran won in both games. Yet I have no doubt that the newer players would have completely dominated the older ones.

I could keep up with the first game in the sense that their actions seemed slow and predictable. Both players open standard on Peaks. Units stand around for a few minutes. The mutalisk harass gets deflected. Hatchery is undefended and drones are decimated by marines. Lurkers are mispositioned and killed. Defilers are too late. GG. There were plenty of things both sides could have done better.

The second game was simply a repeat of the incredible OSL Finals. Both players open standard on Python. Mutalisks create a real threat. Expansions are immediately scouted and attacks are immediately prepared. A pair of hydralisks are immediately moved to the ramp, ready to be morphed into lurkers. The game plays out with surgical precision. Constant pressure from both sides, frantic battles all over the map. Attacks, feints, counters.

I had no doubt in my mind that (T)Iris is a whole two levels above (Z)YellOw, and (Z)GGPlay similarly outclasses (T)BoxeR. It would have been as one-sided as the coaches game had they switched opponents.

Like any other sport, StarCraft is constantly evolving. While other sports takes decades, StarCraft competition has come so far in a few short years.

Macro, micro, and strategy have matured. In the future, games will be decided on perfect multitasking, timing, execution, decision-making, reaction times.

What I'm trying to say is that players are getting better, faster, and pushing the limits of the game. There are getting closer to the point where their play is flawless. By observing a game, I will no longer able to be able to point out mistakes: bad scouting, forgetting to macro, losing units unnecessarily, missing opportunities to attack or expand. The top gamers of today are on top of things, that they're always one step ahead. When I'm thinking "the Terran should attack that expo", the Terran has already started moving out and the Zerg has already started to prepare defenses.

Every single battle is decisive and potentially game-ending. The game balances on the edge of a knife; the limit to the number of units one player can lose is literally the number that he can produce in the time it takes the other player to march his army across the map. Often times, one production cycle of units is enough to decide a game. At today's top skill level, any mistake that costs a player that many units can only be made up by equally large mistake from the other player.

In the past, one only needed to play well and then have a moment with perfect macro, execution, timing to pull of a win. Now, any time you play well instead of perfect results in a loss.

****
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-10 06:08:57
September 10 2007 06:00 GMT
#2
manner ebay is anything but standard mate.

edit: besides, progames still feature a fuckton of errors and mistakes in the vast majority of the games. It is still quite rare to see a game where both sides make virtually no mistakes.

Even Jaedong, who is by all accounts a surgical master in zvt, the guy responsible for the utter dismantling of Light and Hwasin in recent weeks, fucked up bigtime on python in wcg qualis (i think)
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-10 06:07:07
September 10 2007 06:04 GMT
#3
I need to watch instead of going off memory to give better commentary. Overall, it had relatively little impact on the game flow, as opposed to say, proxy stuff.

The point is, perfection is expected, and to a large degree, required in order to win in today's competitive atmosphere. Mistakes are getting harder to point out, and like I said, progamers have limited, albeit somewhat decent room for error.
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-10 06:10:28
September 10 2007 06:09 GMT
#4
this may sound harsh, but to a certain extent, only certain people can notice various degrees of errors. I'm not claiming to be one of the people who see the most in starcraft (b/c I'm obviously not), but for instance, certain fans will notice things like whether the initial workers are placed at the fastest mineral spots, while others will not.

Virtually every game still has micro and decisionmaking errors, as this game is still a game of incomplete information. Whether a spectator notices these errors is a different issue.

--
Another example: The hwasin vs Jaedong game was terribly littered with errors from both sides, despite it being an absolute spectacle of a game. There were at least 5, and upwards of 10 critical errors made in the course of that single game.
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
September 10 2007 06:29 GMT
#5
The margin of error has shrunk significantly over the course of progaming evolution. I get the impression that the only way to really recover from an error is if the the other side makes an equally large error. Jaedong and Hwasin would also tear apart Boxer and Yellow.
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
September 10 2007 06:34 GMT
#6
Yeah, I can agree that the margin of error has dramatically decreased, but at the same time, these errors of smaller mechanical deviations will result in a similar magnitude of setback due to the opponent's "perfection" and increased exploitation of the error.

I'm trying to formulate my crux here but I'm not sure how to vocalize it X__X

alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
September 10 2007 07:19 GMT
#7
nice write

yeah sc has evolved a fuck load..
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Liquid`HayprO
Profile Joined March 2003
Iraq1230 Posts
September 10 2007 12:13 GMT
#8
the iris vs ggplay game was bad, ggplay lost his 3rd gas very early and after that it was just a matter of time before ggplay ggs.

boxer vs yellow game was a nice demonstration of boxer micro, but yes yellow is too rusty these days.
Team LiquidOur friendship will be the stuff of legend.
Auspicious
Profile Joined August 2007
United States175 Posts
September 10 2007 23:04 GMT
#9
GGPlay would not dismantle rape massacre Boxer, at all -_-
You don't fuck around with the infinite.
Wizard
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Poland5055 Posts
September 11 2007 00:57 GMT
#10
Iris outclassing Boxer???? blasphemy .,.
sAviOr[gm] ~ want to watch good replays? read my blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/wizard
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-11 01:56:29
September 11 2007 01:42 GMT
#11
these things are really not players getting better, just improved training and coaching, attention to details and a more planned approach to the game, constituting somewhat of a meta level change. te players' attention is focused on important aspects of the game, and are constantly reminded to complete the little things and not so little things. mechanical flawlessness i guess, but also a whole new level of struggle, as perfection and attention to some aspects of the game makes edges gained or lost in other areas more important.

really pretty much the same thing as any sport in which knowledge accumulates and plays a big role.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Shauni
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
4077 Posts
September 11 2007 03:06 GMT
#12
WE ARE STRIVING FOR PERFECTION
I'm taking whatever coverage I can get, because frankly, I'm busy working on this million dollar deal at my job. Early retirement is a good thing brotha man. - MessengerASL
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 583
Harstem 255
TKL 206
MindelVK 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3881
Rain 3151
EffOrt 1415
Jaedong 1388
Larva 716
Stork 512
Shuttle 397
ggaemo 182
Hyuk 177
Soulkey 133
[ Show more ]
Leta 132
Mong 124
Hyun 79
sorry 77
Sea.KH 66
Snow 58
Backho 44
ToSsGirL 38
JYJ 31
Terrorterran 25
Rock 23
yabsab 21
Free 17
GoRush 13
scan(afreeca) 13
IntoTheRainbow 12
SilentControl 10
ivOry 8
eros_byul 1
Dota 2
qojqva2055
syndereN273
Counter-Strike
fl0m3306
markeloff111
oskar54
kRYSTAL_32
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King97
Other Games
singsing1519
hiko873
Grubby481
DeMusliM376
crisheroes158
KnowMe118
ArmadaUGS84
Trikslyr36
FrodaN16
rubinoeu6
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV196
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 51
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix9
• Michael_bg 5
• Pr0nogo 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV471
League of Legends
• TFBlade1304
• Stunt533
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
28m
goblin vs Kelazhur
TriGGeR vs Krystianer
RotterdaM583
Replay Cast
7h 28m
RongYI Cup
18h 28m
herO vs Maru
Replay Cast
1d 7h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-05
HSC XXVIII
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.