• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:48
CEST 06:48
KST 13:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou17Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four2BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET7Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)81
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (March 17-23): Clem Bounces Back
Tourneys
Tenacious Turtle Tussle RSL Season 3 Qualifier Links and Dates $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 INu's Battles #13 - ByuN vs Zoun
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
SnOw's Awful Building Placements vs barracks BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET Is there anyway to get a private coach? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 300$ 3D!Community Brood War Super Cup #4 [ASL20] Semifinal B Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Roaring Currents ASL final [I] Funny Protoss Builds/Strategies
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Sabrina was soooo lame on S…
Peanutsc
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1967 users

Use more hotkeys after not doing it 20years

Blogs > Chosi
Post a Reply
Chosi
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Germany1302 Posts
June 13 2020 18:28 GMT
#1
Hey TL,

when I picked up BW as a teen we played in LAN party in the basement and only years later I got exposed to online play and started to pick up some of the moves. Over the next 20 years I kind of stayed at that very same D- / 110 APM level, collecting 4 digit mineral-levels and being kind of overwhelmed with the late game. To top it of, I play Terran and while being aware that it's probably the worst race to play at my level - but I am just to stubborn and/or old to change it or learn a new race.

I am not sure what made me pick up the game again a few weeks ago but it only took a few games to get sucked back in and only a few days to get back to my old level of play. And it's frustrating me that I know exactly what is holding me back but I guess the older you get the more difficult it becomes to break your habits. And mine are to not use hotkeys except for scanners and my army. I tried to use location hotkeys or have my factories on them, but once I hit the mid game I just forget about what I had in mind and play like I always have. And since army management for Terran requires a ton of attention I forget making SCVs and units.

So sorry for the long rant and whining, here is the question:
Except for just investing tons of hours, which I don't have with kids and the family, how do I get myself to actually use a good hotkey setup during the game? How do you force yourself to remember to do something different while your mind shifts into auto pilot? For me it's like NOT driving my regular route home but to some other destination while listening to an audiobook in the car - just NEVER works.

TL to the rescue!

*
Someday, you’re going to fuck up so magnificently, so ambitiously, so overwhelmingly that the sky will light up and the moons will spin and the gods themselves will shit comets with glee. And I just hope I’m still around to see it.
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3137 Posts
June 13 2020 20:36 GMT
#2
This post probably includes a lot of content you have already heard and already know, but I don't really know how else to address the question (if it even is a question and not just a lament).

I've relearned hotkeys for BW, super weird hotkeys for SC2 (the few months I played it) and multiple tunings for guitar... and other physical systems many times. I don't think it is nearly as hard as people say. You simply have to target specific physical motions at the point they are sub-optimal and practice executing them in an optimal way, until you are comfortable applying either your new movement or old one. It's easier to think of it as learning new skills, rather than eliminating old ones. Once the new skills become very comfortable, 'subbing' them in for old skills won't be very hard.

So for example if I wanted to get better at using F-keys for production (one possible example) I would practice the physical motion of macroing with F-keys in a UMS or no-opponent game until it felt like second nature. I would probably do this for ~10 minute sessions, several times over the course of a few days when I could sneak it into my otherwise busy schedule. If this new way of macroing was faster than my old way, I would probably naturally start defaulting to it here and there in actual play assuming I am pushing myself to play at a fast pace. If not, (and I was ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the new habit was important) I would make a conscious effort to use it, even punishing myself if I catch myself not using it (ie. every time I macro without using appropriate hotkeys, I have to stand up, walk in a circle around my chair, and sit back down... even if it losses me the game).

For some this would not be a way they would want to improve. For me it is, but only because I have seen time and time again that it is incredibly effective and thus the "boring" activity of practice has been associated with the "fun" result of improving, much like how MMORPG's can condition players into associating the "boring" activity of grinding, with the "fun" result of leveling up. Thus my idea of "fun" has been influenced by the efficacy of the activity towards a particular desired end.

Better physical habits can be learned very fast if you target them, otherwise they will change slowly... maybe even taking years. It's up to you whether you want to put time & energy towards it, and considering SC is a recreational activity, I would say it is probably only worth putting in the effort if either the effort itself is fun (likely for the above stated reason), and/or may lead to the game itself becoming more fun for you. Otherwise I would just say F*** it and improve at a slow pace while enjoying the perks of playing a game with an MMR matchmaking system.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
NrG.Bamboo
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2756 Posts
June 13 2020 21:47 GMT
#3
Glad to see you picking the game back up for the fun of it Since you seem to want the quickest/easiest way to make the game more efficient for yourself, I'd like to suggest a simple thing to remember in-game.

If you already don't have the habit of having rax/fac on hotkey, it might be rather simple (or mega hard, I don't know) to play a couple of games with an F key in mind and don't allow yourself to click to your base, just remember in your head
"F4 means troops"
...
"F4 means troops"
"F3 is where they go"
...
"F4 means troops"
"F3 is where they go"
...
At some point you can tie in the rhythm of troops and scvs, which is rather easy if you don't have to worry about production hotkeys, just your main cc and nat cc, generally. 5 and 6 for me, personally, so it would be:

5s6s F4 [make troops]
double tap 5, make scv mine
double tap 6, make scv mine
F3 for rally or double tap 1 for army

The rest of the game is already muscle memory, might as well build on top of what you don't already have habits for (such as double tapping a factory button to start a round of production.) Nice and simple, F4 makes troops, F3 is where they meet up.
I need to protect all your life you can enjoy the vibrant life of your battery
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10682 Posts
June 14 2020 06:25 GMT
#4
I'm trying to learn to use Camera hotkeys after 20+ years myself, I have never used them before. Best of luck to you!
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36379 Posts
June 14 2020 23:40 GMT
#5
i found i was doing the same thing and i think what you need to do is when you play, just focus on one thing and not on winning at all

ie just try to focus on not missing supply depots/pylons/overlords and never letting your nexus/cc go dark. literally fuck everything else, doesn't matter if you lose horribly. once you get that down, to the point of auto-piloting, then move on to doing other stuff.

you're gonna lose, a lot, but its really the only way to improve. you're not gonna get better at everything at once.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
June 17 2020 12:44 GMT
#6
There's no way around it; to learn a skill, you have to practise it and practising takes time. You have to force yourself to use location hotkeys, whether against AI, against a friendly opponent or in a ladder game.
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
June 22 2020 16:20 GMT
#7
Puppykiller already hinted it, but i d like to reinforce: Practise specific things in a non stress environment!

like when i practised changed hotkeys in sc2, i would just open up a .txt , throw up a movie or something and just do sequences that i thought made sense. For example Select Raxes build 4 marines 1 mara. Then repeat and repeat and repeat.
_fool
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands678 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-26 17:59:15
June 26 2020 17:58 GMT
#8
Both in sc2 and in other skills (music, sports) I usually try to make the "old" habit impossible/ineffective. For instance, when I F2'd too much, I just unbound F2 altogether. When I used screen scroll too much, I set it to a really low scroll speed. So every time I apply the "old" habit, I'm confronted with the fact that I should use the "new" habit. Then I play a few games vs AI for a few days, and that's usually enough for the new habit to stick.

(Extreme example: I learned to do left-hand layups in basketball by... breaking my right hand. That wasn't entirely voluntary, though)
"News is to the mind what sugar is to the body"
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
23:00
Biweekly #34
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
16:00
Masters Cup #150 Qual 1-2
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 135
ProTech92
BRAT_OK 30
StarCraft: Brood War
PianO 701
KwarK 27
Icarus 11
Purpose 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever606
NeuroSwarm101
League of Legends
JimRising 1013
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K502
Other Games
summit1g8093
WinterStarcraft436
C9.Mang0330
Mew2King118
Trikslyr26
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1092
Counter-Strike
PGL218
Other Games
BasetradeTV65
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo944
Other Games
• WagamamaTV195
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
5h 13m
OSC
7h 13m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 6h
Online Event
1d 11h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
[ Show More ]
CrankTV Team League
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.