There are a lot of memories tied up in three simple letters: T-S-L. An idea spawned and realized entirely in the staff forums of TL.net eventually became a defining experience for many of us. When I think about the people involved in it, and where those people now, it really feels like a landmark accomplishment. Hot_Bid, Kennigit, Artosis, Day[9], Nazgul... all of them in leading roles in the esports industry today.
Of course, many people who helped make that project a reality now do something completely unrelated to StarCraft and esports. I recently checked in with the man who brought APM to StarCraft, JCA. His RWA software paved the way for the first generation of casters (myself included), and his revolutionary BWChart changed the way we looked at the game forever. Now he is 50, and a father, but he is still a fan of SC2.
TeamLiquid, of course, is a behemoth compared to what it was twelve years ago. No matter how many times I see it, knowing that the TL logo is up there with the NBA and NHL teams in the Capital One Arena blows my fucking mind.
As for myself, I am the big 40. I play dota with the boys. I have a daughter in junior high and a son who beat Sekiro before I did. + Show Spoiler +
When I think about TL I feel great pride in its success, and a tinge of wistfulness. Had my own situation been slightly different, had I been a bit braver, had I possessed better vision... perhaps I too could have been more involved with what TL is today.
Credit to Nazgul though, he has always answered my messages. When it became apparent that COVID was going to cancel the first few months of my school, I began to get antsy. The challenge I had set out for myself this year, being the homeroom teacher for 23 students in my class, had suddenly been taken away. I've always needed a project on the go, and now I had nothing. "Hey Naz, got anything in the hopper I could help with?"
And so now I find myself, improbably, back in the TSL mix. I'm a little overwhelmed to be honest. The days of reading endless forum pages are over, and planning software makes everything easy to see. My job is a bit of moral support, a bit of community outreach, and a wall to bounce ideas off of. I'm just happy to be here.
I hope that you are staying healthy and safe during this challenging time. Remember that what may be an inconvenience for you is a matter of life and death for others. We don't know what others are going through, especially when you only know them on screen or in game.
Life is short, and we do not have much time to gladden the heart of those who travel with us. So be swift to love and make haste to be kind.
I think having TSL is good for the community and fits the current times well. It's just unfortunate that this TSL is not BW so I might check here and there to see how things are, but I doubt I'll watch much. Best of luck with the task at hand and have fun!
On April 22 2020 14:02 BigFan wrote: I think having TSL is good for the community and fits the current times well. It's just unfortunate that this TSL is not BW so I might check here and there to see how things are, but I doubt I'll watch much. Best of luck with the task at hand and have fun!
Yeah, there is a lot of BW sentiment out there for sure, which I totally understand. It’s unfortunate but just a reality that getting sponsors and filling brackets for BW is a totally different animal.
I recently re-read a few of the lovely messages you wrote me, about writing, and I thought for the millionth time, "I should have gotten to know better, kept in touch with ... Mensrea, Waxangel, You. All the wise elders that made this forum a community.
Glad to see your sexy sickle. I hope you are yours are well and stay that way.
Cool! Good luck. I remember watching TSL (1 or 2, I can't remember, I think it was the first one) and seeing Starcraft with english commentary for the first time. That was amazing. Amazing to think how passionate Artosis is for the game after all these years...
On April 22 2020 14:02 BigFan wrote: I think having TSL is good for the community and fits the current times well. It's just unfortunate that this TSL is not BW so I might check here and there to see how things are, but I doubt I'll watch much. Best of luck with the task at hand and have fun!
Yeah, there is a lot of BW sentiment out there for sure, which I totally understand. It’s unfortunate but just a reality that getting sponsors and filling brackets for BW is a totally different animal.
ya, I noticed. People have been wanting a BW TSL since RM released, but you can only work with what you have. Who knows, maybe this TSL will lead to more and we get a BW one out somehow lol.
TSL2 was one of the main reasons why I started browsing on TL. And I'm still here. Good luck, I even might sign up for a qualifier to get curbstomped in the first round.
On April 22 2020 14:02 BigFan wrote: I think having TSL is good for the community and fits the current times well. It's just unfortunate that this TSL is not BW so I might check here and there to see how things are, but I doubt I'll watch much. Best of luck with the task at hand and have fun!
Yeah, there is a lot of BW sentiment out there for sure, which I totally understand. It’s unfortunate but just a reality that getting sponsors and filling brackets for BW is a totally different animal.
Hello! First of all, I'm glad to see TSL back alive!
I'll check it out for nostalgia but I'm stuck with my first love Broodwar, haven't followed Sc2 after WoL.
I'm curious on your take on the potential and possibilities there? And how do you mean, that filling out brackets is a different animal with broodwar?
BSL does a great job. Rus_brain and Blizzard, donations with the financial backing. Live viewership around 600. Not sure about vods. And CPL does a great job for the new blood. Artosis stream is a gateway to BW for the sc2 players. I see regular influx of sc2 players trying out the game, old school people coming back during the corona. They come to reddit. They come here. They join the discords. The old schoolers not as much. They probably missed the transfer to Discords. At least I did.
We'll see where we are after the corona, but I hope Broodwar can keep on slowly growing, these tournaments keep the foreign scene going.
I've been hoping for a TSL. A big tournament with bigger money could be like a fishing net rather than reeling in one fish at a time(fishing for new and older players). But it's a gamble. Ret, Nony Draco etc returning would warm old school peoples hearts, but probably not mean that a 10k prizepool is paid back through viewership.
I don't know. I'm trying get a grasp of the foreigner scenes potential and current position. Back in the day people where on TL or Gosugamers. 10-20 clans fought their wars. ICCUP was for those aiming to improve. Battle.net had the rest.
Where are we now? And where does Broodwar need to be for a tournament not to look like a 10k loss for the organizer? Wouldn't TL be the one to act if the scene grew enough? Not for money but for it's history and Identity. Like Penguin books publishing poetry.
On April 22 2020 14:02 BigFan wrote: I think having TSL is good for the community and fits the current times well. It's just unfortunate that this TSL is not BW so I might check here and there to see how things are, but I doubt I'll watch much. Best of luck with the task at hand and have fun!
Yeah, there is a lot of BW sentiment out there for sure, which I totally understand. It’s unfortunate but just a reality that getting sponsors and filling brackets for BW is a totally different animal.
Hello! First of all, I'm glad to see TSL back alive!
I'll check it out for nostalgia but I'm stuck with my first love Broodwar, haven't followed Sc2 after WoL.
I'm curious on your take on the potential and possibilities there? And how do you mean, that filling out brackets is a different animal with broodwar?
BSL does a great job. Rus_brain and Blizzard, donations with the financial backing. Live viewership around 600. Not sure about vods. And CPL does a great job for the new blood. Artosis stream is a gateway to BW for the sc2 players. I see regular influx of sc2 players trying out the game, old school people coming back during the corona. They come to reddit. They come here. They join the discords. The old schoolers not as much. They probably missed the transfer to Discords. At least I did.
We'll see where we are after the corona, but I hope Broodwar can keep on slowly growing, these tournaments keep the foreign scene going.
I've been hoping for a TSL. A big tournament with bigger money could be like a fishing net rather than reeling in one fish at a time(fishing for new and older players). But it's a gamble. Ret, Nony Draco etc returning would warm old school peoples hearts, but probably not mean that a 10k prizepool is paid back through viewership.
I don't know. I'm trying get a grasp of the foreigner scenes potential and current position. Back in the day people where on TL or Gosugamers. 10-20 clans fought their wars. ICCUP was for those aiming to improve. Battle.net had the rest.
Where are we now? And where does Broodwar need to be for a tournament not to look like a 10k loss for the organizer? Wouldn't TL be the one to act if the scene grew enough? Not for money but for it's history and Identity. Like Penguin books publishing poetry.
From the perspective of someone who was around since before RM and saw the changes that took place: Yes, there is a small influx of new users and we got some new players that stuck around after RM. Overall, the foreign scene is probably more active than its been in years, however, I feel like I need to clear something up here. The BW foreign scene is extremely small in comparison to other scenes and if there was any time to have a big tournament like TSL, it would've been around the time RM released. There were several tournaments that ran at the same like the Zotac Cup, the italian tournaments and others that escape me, however, the main problem is that once these several tournaments finished, most of the older players left the scene again.
Some of the tournaments that ran after RM were invitational in nature with players such as Draco being invited, but around a year after, they eventually left. I don't know the thoughts of some of these players, but I vaguely recall Ret mentioning that he would've stuck around had there been more competition, and I'm sure a chance to earn something too in BW. In other words, if you want to bring back and maintain any old players, they want an ongoing tournament where they challenge other good players and make money off it too. Sadly, while the former is met with things like BSL or even STPL among other things, the latter is not because even winning BSL would only net you $750 for first place compared to the tens of thousands that you can get in SCII for instance.
Truth be told, I highly doubt we'll get any big tournaments anytime soon. Unless the foreign BW scene increased greatly, that is. TL is also in a different position and era than the time of the first TSL but who knows what the future holds.
While I've never gotten to work with you on any TL-related stuff, I knew you by name when I got on board around 2012. Super cool to see you back around with TSL. Legend
On April 22 2020 14:02 BigFan wrote: I think having TSL is good for the community and fits the current times well. It's just unfortunate that this TSL is not BW so I might check here and there to see how things are, but I doubt I'll watch much. Best of luck with the task at hand and have fun!
Yeah, there is a lot of BW sentiment out there for sure, which I totally understand. It’s unfortunate but just a reality that getting sponsors and filling brackets for BW is a totally different animal.
Hello! First of all, I'm glad to see TSL back alive!
I'll check it out for nostalgia but I'm stuck with my first love Broodwar, haven't followed Sc2 after WoL.
I'm curious on your take on the potential and possibilities there? And how do you mean, that filling out brackets is a different animal with broodwar?
BSL does a great job. Rus_brain and Blizzard, donations with the financial backing. Live viewership around 600. Not sure about vods. And CPL does a great job for the new blood. Artosis stream is a gateway to BW for the sc2 players. I see regular influx of sc2 players trying out the game, old school people coming back during the corona. They come to reddit. They come here. They join the discords. The old schoolers not as much. They probably missed the transfer to Discords. At least I did.
We'll see where we are after the corona, but I hope Broodwar can keep on slowly growing, these tournaments keep the foreign scene going.
I've been hoping for a TSL. A big tournament with bigger money could be like a fishing net rather than reeling in one fish at a time(fishing for new and older players). But it's a gamble. Ret, Nony Draco etc returning would warm old school peoples hearts, but probably not mean that a 10k prizepool is paid back through viewership.
I don't know. I'm trying get a grasp of the foreigner scenes potential and current position. Back in the day people where on TL or Gosugamers. 10-20 clans fought their wars. ICCUP was for those aiming to improve. Battle.net had the rest.
Where are we now? And where does Broodwar need to be for a tournament not to look like a 10k loss for the organizer? Wouldn't TL be the one to act if the scene grew enough? Not for money but for it's history and Identity. Like Penguin books publishing poetry.
From the perspective of someone who was around since before RM and saw the changes that took place: Yes, there is a small influx of new users and we got some new players that stuck around after RM. Overall, the foreign scene is probably more active than its been in years, however, I feel like I need to clear something up here. The BW foreign scene is extremely small in comparison to other scenes and if there was any time to have a big tournament like TSL, it would've been around the time RM released. There were several tournaments that ran at the same like the Zotac Cup, the italian tournaments and others that escape me, however, the main problem is that once these several tournaments finished, most of the older players left the scene again.
Some of the tournaments that ran after RM were invitational in nature with players such as Draco being invited, but around a year after, they eventually left. I don't know the thoughts of some of these players, but I vaguely recall Ret mentioning that he would've stuck around had there been more competition, and I'm sure a chance to earn something too in BW. In other words, if you want to bring back and maintain any old players, they want an ongoing tournament where they challenge other good players and make money off it too. Sadly, while the former is met with things like BSL or even STPL among other things, the latter is not because even winning BSL would only net you $750 for first place compared to the tens of thousands that you can get in SCII for instance.
Truth be told, I highly doubt we'll get any big tournaments anytime soon. Unless the foreign BW scene increased greatly, that is. TL is also in a different position and era than the time of the first TSL but who knows what the future holds.
Yeah my theory has been that the energy among TL people still with BW was put on Shield battery. 2017 would have been the time. And yes, it's a new era, lots of other stuff on their plate.
Liquipedia sponsors BWCL and BSL. That kind of thing does help. I've been thinking that the TSL legacy tournament could help, but sponsoring those with the focus, time, energy and a good product is a key thing and very thankful for the currently active scene.
Those with manpower, time and energy will carry the foreign scene. A big 5 week tournament can only do so much. It's interesting to see the CPL grow though. Broodwar surviving and even growing outside korea. It's beautiful.
Yeah I can see that a TSL right now wouldn't do very much for TL or for Broodwar. And it's hard to say how long this small growth keeps going and how much it'll end up being. Nd it's perhaps a selfish thought that the corona should be used fo the broodwar scene... But does the CPL double their discord? Does new drama and tournaments and talent show up? A next generation combat-ex(drama and grudgematches)? New talent going to korea for practice?
Thinking out loud, a small TL invitational with some old school personalities. Something similar to the holiday bash. That kind of thing could perhaps be a more reasonable fit.
TSL is what defined this community to me. It really tied everything together. It was an incredible effort of community spirit back then to make it all work with just determination of the hard working community members. It's a culmination of the whole community effort this site was all about in its infancy. I am glad there's people burning for the cause still out there.
OG TSL was nuts and a testament to what a lot of people in school or just in their spare time from work could do. New TSL is very cool but that community service kind of culture was very interesting, existing at a kind of special time in the history of the internet and the lives of the people who were a part of it. Very nostalgic.
EPT
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