• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:59
CEST 08:59
KST 15:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon55Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?166Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 KSL Week #92 IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly 2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Broodwar Prediction Market Practice Partners (Official) [D] Brainstorming a balance patch for Brood war
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro16 Group B Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Diablo IV EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Diablo Animated Series on Netflix Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5573 users

This Diablo: Immortal thing is really funny.

Blogs > BEARDiaguz
Post a Reply
Normal
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
November 06 2018 08:10 GMT
#1
“Always remember that the crowd that applauds your coronation is the same crowd that will applaud your beheading. People like a show.” - Terry Pratchett



This might have been a column about all of Blizzcon but really what’s to talk about? I like to hold out hope each year they’ll finally get around to announcing Warcraft 4 or a keyboard that dispenses chocolate milk or something else cool but alas. You already know going in that there’s a new Hearthstone set, new HotS heroes and skins, new SC2 co-op hero and skins, new Overwatch hero and skins, new WoW skins (every year it’s more Heroes and Skins, what is this, late 2000’s television?) and the Diablo fans get to eat shit. This year they announced Warcraft 3 Remastered to the great shock of bloody no-one since if they’re already doing Classic WoW and BW:Remastered then obviously War 3’s getting redone (still holding out hope for a Lost Vikings remaster, fingers crossed!). The only bright spark was Diablo: Immortal or to put it more accurately: Diablo: Dead on Arrival. And what’s really to be said about that? I mean, shit, a Diablo game with no blood or gore in it? That’s like taking the giant floppy tits out of Dead or Alive!

Actually the discussion surrounding D:I is kind of interesting, or at the least extremely funny. See, whenever a gaming company does a whoopsy there emerges two camps: the dev defenders and the gamer mob. Generally the former look for any and all opportunities to call out the latter as a petulant, entitled, horde of shrieking, easily offended howler monkeys and frequently the mob obliges them. And I often side with the dev defenders. Game development seems like a fucking shitty job. Crap pay, long hours, crunch time, tremendous stress, projects often going bad all to make a product that through some tiny detail or two, no fault of most of the dev team, leads to it being roundly savaged by a pack of arseholes who would never appreciate good work if they saw it. Granted, a lot of dev defenders happen to write for gaming outlets and probably have a lot more riding on positive relationships with game companies than you or me and there’s a shitload of condescension that often goes into being cross at gamers.

Which has led to something of an ambivalence surrounding D:I. I’m extremely sympathetic to Wyatt Cheng and the rest of the Blizzard dev team. They don’t deserve to have buckets of vitriol sent their way, or to have that thing happen where one guy pushes you and someone’s hunched over behind you so you fall completely on your arse. If anyone does it’s whatever executive thought signing off on this was a good idea and I reckon there’s decent odds they’ve donned a false moustache and a fake passport and have made it to Argentina already. Those poor devs probably had an inkling this wasn’t going to go down too well and whilst I doubt they reckoned it’d be this bad, well, to put it mildly it’s definitely not great either. But I’m certainly not against being critical of Blizzard; Blizzcon is an event where you pay to go and get advertised at (among other things, I know) and while that seems like a pretty terrible service, if you’re left underwhelmed it’s not your fault. When the band pissses their pants on stage is it really the audience’s fault for booing? Live by the hype, die by the hype I say! Gaming companies should know by now- after CnC: Rivals and Dungeon Keeper Mobile- that if a popular PC franchise hasn’t had anything new for a while then announcing its continuing on as a phone game is going to go down about as well as dead baby jokes on the maternity ward.

Ultimately though, it’s just so damned funny. Seriously, for the past few days r/Diablo has been the funniest site on the wide, wide world of web. Look at these threads! Petition to cancel Diablo: Immortal (yeah, good luck with that), this is the greatest scam in all video games (a mighty boast for a product that has made literally 0 sales), Blizzard has big plans for the mobile space (not necessarily a bad thing, Hearthstone’s led a new wave of digital card games and probably helped secure WCS funding. And it’s kinda fun at times) 300k+ dislikes on the Youtube trailer (since the larger a mob is, the more righteous it is. That’s just mathematical science, it’s the sixth postulate). Hell even the dev defenders have had some pretty shitty takes (my favourite one being an attempt to conflate disgust at PC -> mobile as some sort of sexist attitude. I mean, elitist definitely, there’s no such thing as the Mobile Gaming Master Race is there? But not sexist, come on now).

And the great tragedy of it all is if the game turns out to be actually good. The third position in all this is the detached cynic whose disgust at games that are hyped up but no-one’s actually played should, on principle, extend to giving even games that look bad from a distance a fair shake. I’d like to say I’m one of them but my phone’s a rusted faulty slab of garbage so, you know, damn. I mean, it really does just look like Diablo though and I can already play games like that for free on my computer. Like Path of Exile. Or insert torrented game here!

I suspect Blizzard will be just fine, these large publishers generally are. They do have a good track record of responding to meme-y criticisms of their work. Tracer’s bum a bit too prominent? Yeah, agreed, we’ll fix that right away, can’t have an Englishwoman behave even mildly sexy it’s far too culturally inaccurate. You think you want WoW: Classic but you don’t. Actually you do, let’s work on that post haste. Falstad Wildhammer got overlooked? Not too hard he’s a dwarf after all, haha. but you’re right Red Shirt Guy better patch him in. No LAN mode for Starcraft 2? Eight years on and the technology still isn’t there yet (though we did get resume from replay after Marineking stole that GSTL game from Parting so there’s that). They’re not perfect but I’d safely wager there’s renewed interest internally in an actual proper bit of content for the Diablo fans (honestly quite surprised they haven’t milked Diablo 3 for cash more aggressively. It sold like over 20 million copies, what’s going on over there lads?).

So is the moral to this story that the squeaky wheel gets the grease or that online fanbases are a fickle and chaotic bunch? Both, probably, which is a mildly disappointing for me since a consistently pissed off online fanbase is wonderful in its way (unless their fandom is Fascism in which case they probably just start killing people sadly). But I feel the lesson here is more of a reminder that PC gamers are an elitist bunch at heart and if they’re not being catered to directly than they will be upset. I seem to recall back when Hearthstone was announced it was met with more than a bit of cynicism but back in 2013 it’s hardly as if Warcraft fans lacked for content (and the War 3 fans had already moved onto SC2 or just accepted War 4 is never fucking happening). I suppose that’s all then, good night.



Oh yeah and well done to Serral, the next Zerg Bonjwa.


****
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
November 06 2018 12:01 GMT
#2
I think a big part of the penchant for vitriol is this very internet-y desire to belong to an anonymous meme mob. If you've been anywhere close to social media (Reddit, for example), it's impossible to miss "Don't you guys have phones?"-memes. I'm reasonably sure most of the people making a huge deal out of this A) would have preferred a PC/console Diablo game but also B) don't care as much about D:I as you might think by the volume of aggressive comments everywhere on the web. Like Sir Terry pointed out, people really like a spectacle -- especially if they can feel like they're part of it.
AdministratorBreak the chains
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32281 Posts
November 06 2018 17:19 GMT
#3
On November 06 2018 17:10 BEARDiaguz wrote:
If anyone does it’s whatever executive thought signing off on this was a good idea and I reckon there’s decent odds they’ve donned a false moustache and a fake passport and have made it to Argentina already.


>: [
Moderator<:3-/-<
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
November 07 2018 06:34 GMT
#4
Haha good read. It's true, the spectacle is everything and this has certainly turned into one. It actually makes me curious about this game that I otherwise wouldn't care about. And like you say blizzard is surely going to come out fine even if it's by appealing to the lowest common denominator. I am sympathetic to the fanboys on this one though. Blizzard used to be a company that churned out masterpiece after masterpiece. It's sad to see this current company parading around with the old venerable name of blizzard. There wouldn't be teamliquid without the old blizzard... I can understand people holding the company to a high standard and feeling betrayed by cash grabs.
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
November 07 2018 07:10 GMT
#5
Blizzard will come out fine by appropriately reacting to criticism. I don't see it as changing their priorities to appeal to the lowest common denominator since I'm not overly fond of that sort of thinking since it implies Blizzard doesn't make the games they want to make and for the most part I believe they do. I've met Blizzard people, they're optimistic and energetic and happy in a way I find inherently untrustworthy though I suspect they believe it (they have flown me around the world and plied me with booze so I can't stay mad at them).

It's true that Blizzard has changed but like, entertainment and the monetization of games has changed. The audience changes and Blizzard change with them. They're adaptable and clever. They know what people like and they don't have to work too hard to tell them what to like. When they started making games, gaming was a significantly less mainstream activity than it is today so treating it like an indie studio treats making games now was what you had to do. So, I dunno, I still respect Blizzard as a PC focused developer because God knows there's few enough of those as it is but I am biased as hell considering they've flown me around the world and plied me with booze.
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
November 07 2018 07:30 GMT
#6
Heh are you a game journalist or something? I ask because your writing is very good. If you'd rather not answer that's fine. Maybe I'm too hard on blizzard. I'm a very out of touch person so my opinions tend to be skewed. The standards I have for blizzard could just be nostalgia for bygone days that never can be recreated. Perhaps that is the salt in the wound for constantly reviving the names of these old franchises. If blizzard had announced a mobile game but didn't call it Diablo then I think people would be more trusting of their good faith.
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
November 07 2018 08:13 GMT
#7
No I'm just a lout who gets bored sometimes.
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-07 23:36:47
November 07 2018 23:34 GMT
#8
On November 07 2018 16:10 BEARDiaguz wrote:
Blizzard will come out fine by appropriately reacting to criticism. I don't see it as changing their priorities to appeal to the lowest common denominator since I'm not overly fond of that sort of thinking since it implies Blizzard doesn't make the games they want to make and for the most part I believe they do. I've met Blizzard people, they're optimistic and energetic and happy in a way I find inherently untrustworthy though I suspect they believe it (they have flown me around the world and plied me with booze so I can't stay mad at them).

It's true that Blizzard has changed but like, entertainment and the monetization of games has changed. The audience changes and Blizzard change with them. They're adaptable and clever. They know what people like and they don't have to work too hard to tell them what to like. When they started making games, gaming was a significantly less mainstream activity than it is today so treating it like an indie studio treats making games now was what you had to do. So, I dunno, I still respect Blizzard as a PC focused developer because God knows there's few enough of those as it is but I am biased as hell considering they've flown me around the world and plied me with booze.

I'd say Blizzard is known for changing in ways that makes more and more fun PC games. They started as big time gamers that loved playing games, and ended up a bit more into the developer catacombs that are more removed from the types of games their customers enjoy playing. I've got no problems with their adaptation of the new monetization models (hats & skins) and even the ventures into RMAH in D3.

It's the hinting at big news in Diablo to make a big PR move at their convention, just to bring on the backlash in a big way, that is tough to square with how Blizzard has been in the past. They had ample time to float out a "this time at Blizzcon, we're branching off into uncovered ground in the Diablo franchise." The sheepish "you have phones, don't you" line is a nice encapsulation of the problem. Blizzard does not want to flirt with the whole that is blaming your customers/blaming entitled gamers for not liking the games you announce (as is trendy in the kind of gaming press that also posts the sexism angle on Diablo Immortal).

The more I think about this, the more I lean towards Blizzard announcing it before Blizzcon, and as some kind of between-development-cycle release.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11607 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-07 23:48:27
November 07 2018 23:45 GMT
#9
The main thing is Blizzard framed it badly. By putting a mobile game as big centre piece announcement, theyève set themselves up for an unforced fail. Mark Kern, formerly a Diablo 2 producer figured this was something they shouldève seen a mile away.

I mean, thereès a very obvious path forward to announce this sort of thing: Skyrim mobile game and... canèt remember it right now. But basically, you frame it as- hereès something to tide you over, but what we are really working on is X. Or else you fire up the trailer in between other things. You get the word out, but donèt make it look like as a PC gaming company to a PC gaming crowd that you are making a big pivot to the mobile market as the next evolution of the company. That feels like a bait and switch for PC gamers.

In short, the same game, framed as filler rather than a main course, and youère likely to have a pretty benign reaction. But the way they set themselves up, this was always going to have a negative reaction.

The more I think about this, the more I lean towards Blizzard announcing it before Blizzcon, and as some kind of between-development-cycle release.

Basically this, and this whole thing never would have developed.
Moderator5000 of our finest Taliban warriors have been released! Rise up my brothers. Mashalla! al-Donald ibn-Frederick al-Masih allows it.
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5080 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-08 00:40:46
November 08 2018 00:39 GMT
#10
On November 08 2018 08:45 Falling wrote:
The main thing is Blizzard framed it badly. By putting a mobile game as big centre piece announcement, theyève set themselves up for an unforced fail. Mark Kern, formerly a Diablo 2 producer figured this was something they shouldève seen a mile away.

I mean, thereès a very obvious path forward to announce this sort of thing: Skyrim mobile game and... canèt remember it right now. But basically, you frame it as- hereès something to tide you over, but what we are really working on is X. Or else you fire up the trailer in between other things. You get the word out, but donèt make it look like as a PC gaming company to a PC gaming crowd that you are making a big pivot to the mobile market as the next evolution of the company. That feels like a bait and switch for PC gamers.

In short, the same game, framed as filler rather than a main course, and youère likely to have a pretty benign reaction. But the way they set themselves up, this was always going to have a negative reaction.
Show nested quote +

The more I think about this, the more I lean towards Blizzard announcing it before Blizzcon, and as some kind of between-development-cycle release.

Basically this, and this whole thing never would have developed.


100%

This is Blizzard Entertainment. The company that has endlessly and not so subtly bragged about how good its games are ('we don't care about how long it takes, we care about making the best game,' how many times have you read and heard that over the last ~15 years) - and justifiably so more than not - makes this its big fancy annual convention centerpiece. The company that has been almost exclusively about PC games the vast majority of its existence.

It looks very incongruous. Add on to that disappointment and hostility from different groups of PC gamers over Diablo III and other things, many of them youthful little shits like BW and D2 gamers were back in 2000. That hasn't changed. Even if they're in their 20s now instead of mid-teens sadface. What has is their ability to act really really really pissed off in a way that's visible to multitudes of people. And there's no real consequences for it. Whether it's relentless resentment and sarcasm all the way through straight-up throwing a tantrum. Who cares? Be an obnoxious raged up little shit, you'll get dem upvotes.

Blizzard delays too much in talking about projects its working on. Okay so Diablo 4 is in pre-pre-pre-development. Whatever. Make a cinematic and play it. Some drawings. A couple details. Send out stronger signals. If the game takes forever that's not a big deal to Blizzard, never was remember? Stay awhile and listen to some random producer-director-something say it for the 10 millionth time. But give people more than this kind of thin gruel:

"For our diehard PC fans, we will say though, we still have multiple Diablo teams working on multiple unannounced Diablo projects. So we haven't forgotten about them," Adham said. "The future is bright. Stay tuned."


Thanks Mr. Adham, I think these "pat everybody on the head" style quotes are very much the wrong way to go about things.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17794 Posts
November 09 2018 02:46 GMT
#11
On November 08 2018 08:45 Falling wrote:
The main thing is Blizzard framed it badly. By putting a mobile game as big centre piece announcement, theyève set themselves up for an unforced fail. Mark Kern, formerly a Diablo 2 producer figured this was something they shouldève seen a mile away.

I mean, thereès a very obvious path forward to announce this sort of thing: Skyrim mobile game and... canèt remember it right now. But basically, you frame it as- hereès something to tide you over, but what we are really working on is X. Or else you fire up the trailer in between other things. You get the word out, but donèt make it look like as a PC gaming company to a PC gaming crowd that you are making a big pivot to the mobile market as the next evolution of the company. That feels like a bait and switch for PC gamers.

In short, the same game, framed as filler rather than a main course, and youère likely to have a pretty benign reaction. But the way they set themselves up, this was always going to have a negative reaction.
Show nested quote +

The more I think about this, the more I lean towards Blizzard announcing it before Blizzcon, and as some kind of between-development-cycle release.

Basically this, and this whole thing never would have developed.

They announced Hearthstone at PAX. They could've announced this Diablo Immortal at some kind of show//conference targeted towards mobile players.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4447 Posts
November 09 2018 10:22 GMT
#12
The GBA release of lost vikings wasn’t an improved version? Serious question im not sure on it.

The hate is unfounded since its a lame reskin done by a 3rd party.Core blizz team is hard at work on the new games still.Just don’t buy the shitty mobile game and theyll get the message.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
November 10 2018 02:01 GMT
#13
On November 09 2018 19:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
The GBA release of lost vikings wasn’t an improved version? Serious question im not sure on it.

The hate is unfounded since its a lame reskin done by a 3rd party.Core blizz team is hard at work on the new games still.Just don’t buy the shitty mobile game and theyll get the message.

How do you know it is shitty?
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4447 Posts
November 10 2018 04:58 GMT
#14
People who played it at blizzcon said it wasn’t good.
I have no faith in the depth potential of a mobile action rpg compared to a pc version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
MarlieChurphy
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States2065 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-10 11:18:29
November 10 2018 11:17 GMT
#15
Mobile gaming is literally cancer for gaming, and that's why most people loathe the idea of blizzard trying to cash into it.

#1 most of the games are f2p which translates into p2w. Then there is constant bombardment of daily/hourly quests and weekly events and clan events and special events, etc. etc. Every mobile game has constant alerts (which if you turn off you are basically not playing the game to win).

Then there is all this sunk cost fallacy involved with spending ungodly amounts of time or money playing a game.

Throw a little Skinner's box, and a few other psychological tricks to meta game manipulate people into playing their game. It becomes a chore and a grind. And what do you get when you reach the top? Little to nothing. The game becomes easy and boring.

And beyond all that crap, its on a fucking phone with shitty touch screen and a couple of buttons maybe. Controllers, joysticks, mouses and keyboards are far superior. Not to mention the processor power and monitor size we have at our desktops, or even our $4000 laptops.

nope, instead we gotta carry around extra batteries and get infinity data plans and get texts and phone calls and app alerts while we try and play a game. NES>>>>>>Gameboy. Fuck mobile games.
RIP SPOR 11/24/11 NEVAR FORGET
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
November 10 2018 17:25 GMT
#16
Hey now let's not shit on Gameboy.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
November 11 2018 13:46 GMT
#17
It seems like when someone makes a game, a movie, a tv show, an album, and people buy it and like it, instead of being satisfied with that purchase, some people aren't satisfied until the creator makes another of the same type and quality but different content so that they can buy it again. And if it's good again, then again they're not satisfied until they get yet another.

So there's just a type of consumer who is absolutely intent on being dissatisfied: either immediately because they don't like the thing they just got or eventually because someone who made something good for them couldn't continue to make stuff that was good for them forever.

I think it's especially hard for older games who fell in love with gaming when it was niche. They had already had trouble finding anything in life to identify with and then they found gaming and stuck with it despite it being a looked-down-upon hobby. Now gaming is changing away from what they like and so again they find themselves in crisis.

These people need to learn to appreciate what they have at the moment and to not expect someone else to take care of their needs perpetually. We all wish that all of the most talented and highest budgeted creators were making content that fit our own preferences. But people are gonna make what they're motivated to make, whether that motivation is financial or artistic. When their interest in something has run its course and they want something fresh, they need to branch out. They shouldn't yell at creators who already served them well once just because they're not spoon-feeding them more. There's a whole world out there. Valve and Blizzard etc not making games they like anymore should not lead them to despair.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
November 11 2018 17:56 GMT
#18
On November 11 2018 22:46 NonY wrote:
It seems like when someone makes a game, a movie, a tv show, an album, and people buy it and like it, instead of being satisfied with that purchase, some people aren't satisfied until the creator makes another of the same type and quality but different content so that they can buy it again. And if it's good again, then again they're not satisfied until they get yet another.

So there's just a type of consumer who is absolutely intent on being dissatisfied: either immediately because they don't like the thing they just got or eventually because someone who made something good for them couldn't continue to make stuff that was good for them forever.

I think it's especially hard for older games who fell in love with gaming when it was niche. They had already had trouble finding anything in life to identify with and then they found gaming and stuck with it despite it being a looked-down-upon hobby. Now gaming is changing away from what they like and so again they find themselves in crisis.

These people need to learn to appreciate what they have at the moment and to not expect someone else to take care of their needs perpetually. We all wish that all of the most talented and highest budgeted creators were making content that fit our own preferences. But people are gonna make what they're motivated to make, whether that motivation is financial or artistic. When their interest in something has run its course and they want something fresh, they need to branch out. They shouldn't yell at creators who already served them well once just because they're not spoon-feeding them more. There's a whole world out there. Valve and Blizzard etc not making games they like anymore should not lead them to despair.


On the flip side, there is an industry exploiting that exact dynamic. See the endless comic book movies, Star Wars, Final Fantasy 879534, etc. And it's often not the original creator at all but merely the company that owns (sometimes purchased expensively) the IP. That expectation/dissatisfaction cycle keeps the dollars rolling in, enough so that the expectation can be fueled and multiplied by expensive marketing campaigns.
Bacillus01
Profile Joined October 2013
France32 Posts
November 12 2018 09:41 GMT
#19
On November 06 2018 17:10 BEARDiaguz wrote:


I think you're missing the point.
Most people aren't mad at the developpers themselves, but at the head of the Blizzard-Activision company that makes the choices and gives the orders.

Here, the orders were : collab with NetEase, a chinese mobile game company, and with them make a re-skin of one of their mobile a-rpg, and obviously this is gonna be filled with micro-transactions as all of NetEase games are on the chinese market.
The blizz developpers didn't do much actual work on this D:I game. It was mostly done by NetEase (the game looks exactly the same as some of their other A-RPGS), the blizz devs only helped to re-skin it with diablo content.
In other words, the orders were to collab with NetEase to make a money-grab game using the Diablo IP.
And the developpers obeyed.

The only choice developpers have here is either to obey the orders, or to resign.
Everybody is aware they're not making the stategy choices of the company.

You're leaving the most important contender of the issue out if you over-simplify it as being :
game devs VS angry PC gamers VS Devs defenders

The only actual developpers that got bashed are the ones that came up on stage to present & defend this obvious money-grab product, and mostly got bashed based on their way to communicate with the crowd ("do you guys not have phones?"), not for the developping itself. I.E. they got bashed for the marketing part.
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
November 12 2018 17:24 GMT
#20
So would this have been preferable?

I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10950 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-12 19:02:41
November 12 2018 19:01 GMT
#21
That Blizzard has lost its mojo is clear since they managed to "miss" Dota.
+ the SC2 split in 3 fiasco. Now SC2, after 2 addons and tons of patches, is an awesome game but at least hots was absolutely unneeded.

It was just hilarious seeing all the bad decisions culmivated on the stage that D3 mobile got at blizzcon.
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5080 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-13 00:35:12
November 13 2018 00:34 GMT
#22
On November 13 2018 02:24 Jerubaal wrote:
So would this have been preferable?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySGMnmiqlss


Of course getting a present of NOOOOOOOOOOOOTHING from Dethklok would be preferable.

Preferable to anything and everything.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2449 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-16 01:20:50
November 16 2018 01:17 GMT
#23
On November 10 2018 20:17 MarlieChurphy wrote:
Throw a little Skinner's box, and a few other psychological tricks to meta game manipulate people into playing their game. It becomes a chore and a grind. And what do you get when you reach the top? Little to nothing. The game becomes easy and boring.

But enough about Diablo II.





EDIT: To be less facetious, I actually liked Diablo II a lot, but to criticise a game in the series for being a "grind" and a "Skinner's box" is absolutely missing the point, lol
The original Bogus fan.
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
November 18 2018 15:29 GMT
#24
On November 16 2018 10:17 Turbovolver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2018 20:17 MarlieChurphy wrote:
Throw a little Skinner's box, and a few other psychological tricks to meta game manipulate people into playing their game. It becomes a chore and a grind. And what do you get when you reach the top? Little to nothing. The game becomes easy and boring.

But enough about Diablo II.





EDIT: To be less facetious, I actually liked Diablo II a lot, but to criticise a game in the series for being a "grind" and a "Skinner's box" is absolutely missing the point, lol

The difference is the mobile games do it solely to squeeze money out of their players
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
Kaz1
Profile Joined April 2015
35 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-22 21:07:32
November 22 2018 21:06 GMT
#25
I think that putting everyone that is seriously turned off by the game itself, that they used a well known gameclone maker, and lauding them as the next great thing is as bad as the train that tried to sink the trailer into oblivion.

I agree that the community overreacted. I imagine most of them were reddit users where this is commonplace.

The fact that they were blindsided by the reaction at blizzcon to a mobile game is a testament to how out of touch they are. Sorry, but if you didn't see this coming, then you should probably be looking for another job.

Honestly, this is about what i expected from them. There were a slew of things they completely ignored the community about on D3. I could care less if it is popular. It is a simple, and constraining game with very few real options that differentiate your character from anybody else's. The same is easily said for a lot of things in D2, but there were very good options that anybody that didn't just buy the cookie cutters outright understood. I was very often asked 'wtf are you using?' A lot by those same people that think enigma is the only useful armor. There is so little of this in D3 it is a drag.

I didni't even bother to play d3 until the expansion due to conversations that most probably already can guess. I lost interest in the expansion in a month of less. I played HC and died maybe twice. They have expanded the late game, but it is simply not enjoyable to play imo.

Due to the success of the game, even amidst a very large portion of D1/2 players made them feel secure that they can throw anything they want, whenever they want, and it will be fine. I am sure that the mobile game will do fine in the east, so they are basically right. However, I am done buying their titles for the foreseeable future.

By allocating a likely shortish dev cycle (for blizz anyway) to a mobile game, they have essentially completely conceded the game space to PoE. Maybe that is the right call, but I am honestly pretty blown away that they chose this route.
castleeMg
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Canada790 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-23 13:34:13
November 23 2018 13:31 GMT
#26
Lmao at nony trying to get all philosophical, ppl are just upset because Diablo was always a pc game now it’s not.. clearly the majority of Diablo fans are pc players and blizzard completely missed the demographic. All blizzard looked at was mobile games are generating more revenue now, so we have to jump into that market head first, which is fine if they announced Diablo immortal on pc and said it would also be ported to mobile. People arn’t being “spoon fed” anything, they pay lots of money for games and if the developer can’t hit the obvious key demographic, then isn’t criticism warranted?
AKA: castle[eMg]@USEast/ iCCup
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17794 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-02 05:09:33
December 02 2018 05:05 GMT
#27
On November 12 2018 18:41 Bacillus01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2018 17:10 BEARDiaguz wrote:

I think you're missing the point.
Most people aren't mad at the developpers themselves, but at the head of the Blizzard-Activision company that makes the choices and gives the orders.

this is the standard "good cop"//"bad cop" routine that goes with all software development. The creators are the "good cop" and whoever controls the money that is paid to the creators is the "bad cop".

the narrative doesn't apply in all cases. However, it seems to make apparent sense on some level so it keeps getting used as a way to placate consumers.

If Blizzard were truly this puritanical company of nothing but goodness and wholesomeness they never would've taken money from investors in the first place. At some point Morhaime and the top guys decided to "cash in" their equity and surrendered a degree of control in Blizzard in order to get that cash.

So its not as simple as labelling : "ATVI: Bad" .. "Blizzard: Good".
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10847 Posts
December 03 2018 12:29 GMT
#28
Warcraft 4 is coming out soon iaguz, just be patient.

xd
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
December 18 2018 10:37 GMT
#29
i love Diablo 2. i've played Diablo 3 quite a lot once they made it a decent game.

i don't play mobile games. that won't change with Diablo: Immortal.

what i don't get is why people get so mad Blizzard dare make a game they're not interested in. that's gonna happen. i love Warcraft 3 and i enjoyed Hearthstone for several years. i've never touched WoW in my life cause i'm not interested in the slightest. doesn't mean i get mad when Blizzard does something for WoW.

i understand the way they announced Diablo Immortal wasn't very smart. but cmon, they have the right to make a game you don't wanna play.
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5080 Posts
December 18 2018 19:20 GMT
#30
On December 18 2018 19:37 Schelim wrote:
i love Diablo 2. i've played Diablo 3 quite a lot once they made it a decent game.

i don't play mobile games. that won't change with Diablo: Immortal.

what i don't get is why people get so mad Blizzard dare make a game they're not interested in. that's gonna happen. i love Warcraft 3 and i enjoyed Hearthstone for several years. i've never touched WoW in my life cause i'm not interested in the slightest. doesn't mean i get mad when Blizzard does something for WoW.

i understand the way they announced Diablo Immortal wasn't very smart. but cmon, they have the right to make a game you don't wanna play.


they have the right to make diablo2, war2 and 3, and brood war over and over and over again and if they dont i have the right to riot
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
January 04 2019 12:26 GMT
#31
A gaming company doesn't usually get so much flack over a single issue like that if they've been good to their customers for the past years. As I see it, Blizzard has been pissing gamers off in numerous ways, and this was just the final nail in the coffin. Or at least it could be, we'll see how much further their stocks drop.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
FoxeR 72
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 4772
actioN 263
Stork 171
910 72
Aegong 55
yabsab 25
Dota 2
ODPixel386
NeuroSwarm163
Other Games
summit1g9821
JimRising 551
KnowMe107
RuFF_SC243
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV243
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH497
• Sammyuel 38
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2165
League of Legends
• Jankos1454
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 1m
WardiTV Invitational
4h 1m
ByuN vs Percival
Cure vs Classic
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
8h 1m
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
9h 1m
Serral vs Rogue
BlizzCon
11h 31m
IdrA vs MC
Replay Cast
17h 1m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 3h
Light vs JyJ
Soulkey vs hero
WardiTV Weekly
1d 4h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 9h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
[ Show More ]
GSL
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - TRS
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.